Net Points, etc.

[SWC75]

Take all the positives: points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks and subtract the negatives: missed field goals, miss free throws, turnovers and fouls. The result is “Net Points.” (NP). M = minutes.

CJ Fair +25NP in 29M season: +149NP in 363M per 40M: +16.4NP
Fab Melo +24NP in 22M season: +150NP in 343M per 40M: +17.5NP
Kris Joseph +19NP in 31M season: +201NP in 433M per 40M: +18.6NP
Dion Waiters +10NP in 20M season: +171NP in 319M per 40M: +21.4NP
James Southerland +8NP in 17M season: +155NP in 245M per 40M: +25.3NP
Brandon Triche +8NP in 20M season: +132NP in 323M per 40M: +16.3NP
Scoop Jardine +6NP in 22M season: +154NP in 320M per 40M: +19.3NP
Michael Carter-Williams +2NP in 17M season: +67NP in 193M per 40M: +13.9NP
Rakeem Christmas -4NP in 10M season: +54NP in 189M per 40M: +11.4NP
Baye Moussa Keita -1NP in 6M season: +60NP in 172M per 40M: +14.0NP
Mookie Jones 0NP in 0M season: -1NP in 30M per 40M: -1.3NP

Comment: CJ Fair scored 16 points and pulled down 5 rebounds with 2 steals, an assist and a block in 29 minutes. That’s impressive but more impressive is that he was 6 for 6 from the field, 4 for 4 from the line and had no turnovers and no fouls. That’s right, he did noting bad, (at least that turned up in the box score) in 29 minutes while producing 25 “positives”. I’ve seen games where players wound up with more net points but not that many with no negatives at all. He pitched a “perfect game”.

Shooting Breakdown: SU was 31/46 from inside the arc, (.674), 3/12 from outside, (.250) and 16/23 from the line (.696). DePaulwas 22/44 (.500), 3/18, (.167). and 15/20, (.750) 15 of our 34 baskets were assisted, (65%), vs. 16 of DePaul’s 25, (64%).

Rebounding: Syracuse had 10 offensive and 25 defensive rebounds. DePaul had 14 offensive and 18 defensive rebounds. That means that when we missed, we got the rebound 36% of the time. When they missed, they got the rebound 36% of the time. DePaul had 18 turnovers, of which 10 were Syracuse steals, (56%). Syracuse had 16 turnovers of which 7 were DePaul steals, (44%). We had 53 “manufactured” possessions, (our rebounds + their turnovers). They had 48.

And, thanks to Blacksquirrels and Knicks411, I now understand how to compute “points per possession, (field goal attempts – offensive rebounds + turnovers plus 47.5% of free throws attempted) and here they are:

Syracuse: 58 FGA minus 10 offensive rebounds plus 16 turnovers plus 47.5% of 23 free throws = 74.925 possessions. The possessions can’t be more than one off so I’ll call that 75 possessions in which we scored 87 points or 1.160 points per possession. For the season it’s 1.187.

DePaul: 62-14+18 plus 47.5% of 20 = 75.5 possessions. Let’s call that 76 possessions, (so we won’t be more than one off) in which they scored 68 points or 0.895 points per possession. For the season it’s 0.865.

Dry stretches were a problem last year- we’d go 8-10 minutes with the offense not functioning. I decided it should be a goal to score at least 15 points in every 10 minute “quarter” of the game, (college is the only level that doesn’t have quarters). You want to score more than that, of course, but if we can avoid falling under 15 in any ten minute period we should have a good scoring average because we’ll have 20 and 25 point quarters as well. The “quarterly” splits in this game were 22-15, 23-11, 16-17, 26-25. We’ve had 6 sub 15 point quarters this year and lost 11 quarters (of 60).

15-0 and 16 to go

LET’S GO ORANGE!!!

 

[Carl]

Didn't you once do a net points comparison that showed the differential of a given players results from year to year?
Who did it show as the most improved from one season to the next and how does Fab (and Dion) compare?
I think I remember JB once called Dave Johnson's improvement the most dramatic he had ever seen.

 

[SWC75]

Didn't you once do a net points comparison that showed the differential of a given players results from year to year?
Who did it show as the most improved from one season to the next and how does Fab (and Dion) compare?
I think I remember JB once called Dave Johnson's improvement the most dramatic he had ever seen.

And here it is, (from two years ago), with an update:


We can’t know at this time. But I thought it would be interesting to look back at players who had improved markedly from season to the next and to see how Kris’ and Scoop’s improvements compare to their predecessors. Using the Net Points” system, here are the top 25 improvements from one to the next in SU players since 1986-87:

Glenn Sekunda +11.8
Freshman: 8.0m 13.6p 6.6r 1.8a 1.6s 0.2b +23.8 9.3mfg 1.1mft 2.7to 7.3pf -20.4 = 3.4NP 3.2OE 0.2FG
Sophomore: 12.2m 15.9p 9.1r 2.2a 2.5s 0.9b +30.6 7.1mfg 0.8mft 3.3to 4.2pf -15.4 = 15.2NP 8.0OE 7.2FG Improvements: Across the board but especially rebounding and fouls

Dave Siock +11.4
Freshman: 7.1m 3.7p 10.0r 3.0a 0.3s 0.7b 17.7+ 6.7mfg 1.3mft 3.0to 7.3pf 18.3- = -0.6NP -.3OE 3.7FG
Sophomore: 9.3m 11.1p 8.2r 2.1a 1.8s 0.0b +23.2 4.6mfg 1.4mft 1.8to 4.6pf -12.4 = 10.8NP 5.1OE 5.7FG Improvements: Mostly scoring and fouls

Dave Johnson +10.5

Sophomore: 18.0m 14.6p 5.2r 2.4a 1.0s 0.4b +23.6 8.2mfg 2.0mft 1.7to 3.9pf -15.8= 7.8NP 4.4OE 3.4FG

Junior: 34.9m 22.2p 7.2r 2.7a 1.8s 0.1b +34.0 8.1mfg 2.4mft 2.4to 2.8pf -15.7 = 18.3NP 11.7OE 6.6FG Improvements: Scoring, (Dave grew a jump shot), rebounding, fewer fouls

LeRon Ellis +9.5

Junior: 21.3m 11.3p 7.6r 1.4a 2.1s 1.5b +23.9 5.6mfg 1.5mft 1.3to 5.6pf -14.0 = 9.9NP 5.7OE 4.2FG

Senior: 29.0m 15.3p 10.6r 1.9a 2.7s 3.4b +33.9 5.9mfg 2.0mft 1.9to 4.7pf -14.5 = 19.4NP 7.4OE 12.0FG Improvements: Mostly scoring and rebounding but also blocks.

Terrence Roberts +8.9

Freshman:

Terrence Roberts 7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG
Sophomore: Terrence Roberts 18.5m 15.6p 8.5r 1.3a 2.4s 1.8b 29.6+ 4.7mfg 2.4mft 3.0to 6.5pf 16.6- = 13.0NP 8.5OE 4.5FG Improvements: Mostly scoring.

Jason Cipolla 8.4

Junior:

23.5m 13.1p 3.3r 2.3a 1.7s 0.2b +20.6 7.6mfg 0.8mft 2.1to 2.3pf -12.8 = 7.8NP 4.7OE 3.1FG
Senior: 33.4m 15.8p 4.2r 3.3a 1.8s 0.3b +25.4 4.8mfg 0.3mft 2.2to 1.9pf -9.2 = 16.2NP 10.7OE 5.5FG Improvements: Scored more while missing fewer shots. Also more assists.

Kris Joseph 8.0

Freshman:

12.1m 10.1p 7.1r 1.5a 2.6s 0.7b 22.0+ 5.2mfg 2.7mft 2.4to 3.1pf 13.4- = 8.6NP 2.2OE 6.4OE
Sophomore: Kris Joseph 27.8m 15.6p 8.0r 2.5a 2.0s 0.6b 28.7+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 2.5to 2.6pf 12.1- = 16.6NP 8.6OE 8.0FG Improvements: Scoring, free throw shooting, assists

Derrick Coleman +7.8

Freshman:
30.6m 15.6p 11.4r 1.5a 1.5s 2.3b 32.3+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 2.3to 4.1pf 12.8- = 19.5NP
8.1OE 11.4FG
Sophomore: 32.3m 16.7p 13.6r 2.7a 1.6s 2.0b 36.6+ 4.4mfg 2.5mft 0.8to 1.6pf 9.3- =
27.3NP
9.8OE 17.5FG Improvements: Some scoring but more rebounding and assists and fewer turnovers and fouls

Eric Williams +7.5

Freshman:

8.4m 14.3p 11.4r 2.9a 1.7s 1.0b +30.3 3.8mfg 2.9mft 6.0to 5.0pf -17.7 = 12.6NP 7.6OE 5.0FG
Sophomore: 12.5m 17.8p 10.9r 3.2a 2.3s 0.9b +35.1 5.9mfg 0.7mft 4.1to 4.3pf -15.0 = 20.1NP 11.2OE 8.9FG Improvements: Scoring, better shooting from field and foul shots and fewer turnovers.

Scoop Jardine +7.5

Freshman:

19.6m 11.2p 3.1r 5.1a 2.4s 0.2b 22.0+ 5.0mfg 0.4mft 3.7to 3.9pf 13.0- = 9.0NP 5.8OE 3.2FG
Sophomore: 22.2m 16.3p 3.5r 7.8a 2.1s 0.1b 29.8+ 6.1mfg 1.2mft 3.4to 2.6pf 13.3- = 16.5NP 9.0OE 7.5FG Improvements: Scoring, assists, fewer fouls.

Stevie Thompson +6.9

Freshman:

12.2m 16.6p 6.0r 2.4a 0.6s 1.9b 27.5+ 7.2mfg 3.4mft 3.8to 4.0pf 18.4- = 9.1NP 6.0OE 3.1FG
Sophomore: 30.6m 18.4p 6.4r 2.5a 1.5s 0.4b 29.2+ 5.7mfg 2.6mft 1.8to 3.1pf 13.2- = 16.0NP 10.1OE 5.9FG Improvements: Scoring, better shooting, fewer turnovers and fouls.

Etan Thomas: +6.6

Freshman: 16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG

Sophomore: 28.8m 15.7p 9.1r 0.6a 1.1s 5.5b +32.0 3.6mfg 2.7mft 2.3to 3.9pf -12.5 = 19.5NP 9.4OE 10.1FG Improvements: More scoring, shot blocking, fewer missed shots, turnovers and fouls.

Craig Forth: +6.3

Sophomore: 17.7m 8.5p 7.5r 1.9a 1.0s 2.7b +21.6 3.8mfg 1.3mft 2.5to 5.8pf -13.4 = 8.2NP 3.4OE 4.8FG

Junior:

23.2m 9.8p 10.0r 1.2a 1.0s 3.5b 25.5+ 3.3mfg 0.7mft 2.2to 4.8pf 11.0- = 14.5NP 5.8OE 8.7FG Improvements: Rebounding, blocks, fouls

Otis Hill +6.3

Sophomore:

20.3m 12.8p 8.7r 1.4a 2.0s 0.9b +25.8 4.6mfg 1.4mft 2.6to 6.6pf -15.2 = 10.6NP 6.8OE 3.8FG
Junior: 24.3m 20.8p 9.0r 0.9a 1.5s 1.4b +33.6 6.3mfg 1.9mft 2.8to 5.8pf -16.8 = 16.8NP 12.6OE 4.2FG Improvements: Scoring, shooting, avoiding fouls.

Adrian Autry +5.9

Sophomore: 32.7m 13.5p 5.0r 4.9a 1.9s 0.2b +25.5 7.5mfg 1.5mft 4.0to 3.8pf -16.8 = 8.7NP 4.5OE 4.2FG

Junior: 31.8m 17.2p 4.6r 7.0a 2.5s 0.2b +31.5 8.0mfg 0.9mft 4.4to 3.6pf -16.9 = 14.6NP 8.3OE 6.3FG Improvements: Scoring, assists

Josh Wright +5.6

Freshman:

8.5m 6.5p 3.0r 8.2a 2.0s 0.0b 19.7+ 6.2mfg 1.0mft 4.5to 3.2pf 14.9- = 4.8NP -0.7OE 5.5FG
Sophomore: 12.5m 13.4p 4.2r 5.1a 2.8s 0.0b 25.5+ 5.5mfg 2.6mft 4.4to 2.6pf 15.1- = 10.4NP 5.3OE 5.1FG Improvements: Scoring, (assists went sharply down),

Scott McCorkle +5.4

Sophomore:

7.2m 10.2p 4.1r 2.3a 0.8s 0.0b +17.4 4.1mfg 0.9mft 1.8to 3.5pf -10.3= 7.1NP 5.2OE 1.9FG
Junior: 7.2m 13.9p 8.0r 2.4a 2.4s 0.0b +26.7 6.6mfg 0.7mft 2.4to 4.5pf -14.2 = 12.5NP 6.6OE 5.9FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding, steals

Demetris Nichols +5.4

Sophomore:
12.9m 12.1p 6.5r 1.5a 1.3s 0.9b 22.3+ 7.3mfg 0.6mft 2.9to 3.7pf 14.5- = 7.8NP 4.2OE 3.6FG
Junior:
33.3m 16.0p 7.0r 1.7a 1.5s 1.1b 27.3+ 7.6mfg 1.0mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.1- = 13.2NP 7.4OE 5.8FG Improvements: Scoring

Conrad McRae +5.1
Junior:

29.4m 11.8p 8.4r 1.2a 2.0s 3.3b +26.7 3.6mfg 2.5mft 1.3to 5.3pf -12.7 = 14.0NP 5.7OE 8.3FG
Senior: 30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls

James Thues +5.1

Freshman: 7.7m 8.4p 2.4r 6.7a 2.6s 0.4b +20.5 4.1mfg 3.0mft 3.2to 4.1pf -14.4= 6.1NP 1.3OE 4.8FG

Sophomore: 31.3m 7.2p 3.7r 6.3a 3.6s 0.4b +21.2 3.5mfg 1.0mft 3.1to 2.4pf -10.0 = 11.2NP 2.7OE 8.5FG Improvements: Rebounding, steals, free throw shooting, fewer fouls

Hakim Warrick: +5.0

Freshman: 17.4m 14.0p 11.0r 1.2a 1.3s 1.4b +28.9 5.0mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 4.7pf -14.7 = 14.2NP 6.6OE 7.6FG
Sophomore: 32.7m 18.1p 10.4r 2.0a 1.7s 1.5b +33.7 5.8mfg 2.2mft 3.2to 3.3pf -14.5 = 19.2NP 10.1OE 9.1FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls

Rick Jackson +4.5

Freshman:

12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG
Sophomore: 22.1m 15.0p 10.4r 1.7a 1.6s 2.9b 31.6+ 4.0mfg 1.9mft 2.9to 3.6pf 12.4- = 19.2NP 9.1OE 10.1FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding,

Kueth Duany +4.3

Sophomore:

18.3m 12.7p 7.2r 1.9a 1.9s 0.8b +24.5 5.5mfg 1.7mft 2.7to 5.6pf -15.5 = 9.0NP 5.5OE 3.5FG
Junior: 30.8m 15.9p 6.9r 2.1a 1.9s 0.8b +27.6 7.3mfg 1.3mft 2.5to 3.2pf -14.3 = 13.3NP 7.3OE 6.0FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls

Damone Brown +4.1

Junior: 26.0m 16.4p 9.4r 2.1a 1.5b 0.9b +30.3 6.5mfg 1.3mft 2.3to 4.3pf -14.4 = 15.9NP 8.6OE 7.3FG

Senior: 35.9m 18.3p 9.8r 2.1a 1.9s 1.6b +33.7 7.3mfg 1.1mft 2.3to 3.0pf -13.7 = 20.0NP 9.9OE 10.1FG Improvements: Points, blocks, fewer fouls

Billy Owens: +4.0

Freshman: 32.0m 16.3p 8.7r 3.7a 2.1s 1.2b 32.0+ 5.9mfg 1.7mft 2.5to 3.6pf 13.7- = 18.3NP 8.7OE 9.6FG

Sophomore: 36.0m 20.3p 9.3r 5.1a 2.5s 0.8b +38.0 8.1mfg 1.6mft 2.7to 3.3pf -15.7 = 22.3NP 10.6OE 11.7FG Improvements: Scoring, assists

Jeremy McNeill +4.0

Freshman: 15.9m 6.3p 7.9r 0.3a 0.8s 4.7b +20.0 1.3mfg 1.2mft 1.9to 7.6pf -12.0 = 8.0NP 3.8OE 4.2FG
Sophomore: 14.7m 9.2p 10.2r 0.3a 1.3s 4.1b +25.1 1.9mfg 1.5mft 2.1to 7.6pf -13.1 = 12.0NP 5.8OE 6.2FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding

Comments: There are actually 26 players here because of a tie for 25th. Several guys, (Sekunda, Siock, Williams, McCorkle, Wright), were career reserves whose numbers were in limited playing time and less meaningful. 15 of the 26 guys were 6-8 or more, indicating that big men have the most improving to do. 15 of the 26 players had this improvement from their freshman to sophomore years. 7 guys improved from their sophomore to their junior years. The other 4 were junior to senior. Two of those guys transferred here as juniors, (Ellis and Cipolla). That means that 17 of the 26 biggest improvements in the last 24 years have come from players between their first and second years here. That indicates that, when you give the staff here a year to work with a player, they have a good chance to show substantial improvement. The most likely areas of improvement are in scoring and avoiding fouls. The most likely players to show substantial improvement next year are the freshmen: Brandon Triche, Mookie Jones, DaShonte Riley and James Southerland. It’s less likely that Rick Jackson, Wes Johnson, (if he were to come back), Kris Joseph or Scoop Jardine were to show significant improvement but it’s not impossible.

Here is a chart of all the players who have played, (entire), four year careers here, just listing their “Net Points” and the net improvement from their freshman to their senior seasons. My records are limited to scholarship players who played 100 minutes in a season so some four year guys are not listed here because they had a season where they played less than that.

Derrick Coleman 19.5 27.3 28.5 26.7 +7.2

Stevie Thompson 9.1 16.0 19.9 15.6 +6.5

Dave Johnson 6.7 7.8 18.3 14.1 +7.4

Dave Siock -0.6 10.8 3.8 -0.8 -0.2

Michael Edwards 9.5 6.5 6.4 3.2 -6.3

Conrad McRae 10.6 14.9 14.0 19.1 +8.5

Adrian Autry 8.4 8.7 14.6 16.8 +8.4

Scott McCorkle 14.1 7.1 12.5 13.2 -0.9

Lawrence Moten 18.7 17.4 19.6 16.6 -2.1

Luke Jackson 6.1 8.4 11.8 12.8 +6.7

John Wallace 16.0 20.3 22.7 22.6 +6.6

Lazarus Sims 2.8 7.7 10.3 11.8 +9.0

Otis Hill 13.1 10.6 16.8 17.8 +4.7

Todd Burgan 10.9 13.1 13.9 16.2 +5.3

Jason Hart 10.6 8.9 12.8 12.7 +2.1

Etan Thomas 12.9 19.5 21.9 21.8 +8.9

Alan Griffin 5.8 8.0 10.7 10.7 +4.9

Preston Shumpert 11.8 14.1 17.5 18.3 +6.5

Kueth Duany 10.9 9.0 13.3 12.6 +1.7

Jeremy McNeill 8.0 12.0 11.8 11.6 +3.6

Craig Forth 10.7 8.2 14.5 14.4 +3.7

Hakim Warrick 14.2 19.2 19.3 20.5 +6.3

Josh Pace 13.5 15.4 13.5 16.2 +2.7

Gerry McNamara 12.9 13.6 13.3 14.2 +1.3

Demetris Nichols 5.7 7.8 13.2 17.9 +12.2

Terrence Roberts 4.1 13.0 14.5 14.5 +10.4

Arinze Onukau 13.5 17.3 17.4 18.5 +5.0

Andy Rautins 8.3 8.9 11.6 15.4 +7.1

Comments: Demetris Nichols wins the award as the player who improved the most from his freshman to the his senior season. His teammate, Terrence Roberts is second. Mookie Watkins is one of those who didn’t play 100 minutes as a freshman. He improved from 14.1 as a sophomore to 16.6 as a senior. Maybe we don’t give those guys enough credit. Of the 28 players who have played at least 100 minutes for four year here since 1986, 24 of them have improved from their freshmen to their seniors years. Three were career reserves and the other was Lawrence Moten who was not well-served by a switch from small forward, his natural position, to shooting guard. These players averaged 10.3 as freshmen, 12.1 as sophomores, (+1.8), 14.9 as juniors, (+2.8), and 15.2 as seniors, (+0.3) so in this sample, the biggest improvement comes between the sophomore and junior years, which bodes well for Kris and Scoop to show us even more next year.

2011 Update:

Rick Jackson completed a four year career with these numbers: 14.7 19.2 20.3 22.1

No players other than Jackson who were on the team in 2009-2010 improved last year:

Kris Joseph went from 16.6 to 15.8

Scoop Jardine went from 16.5 to 13.0

Brandon Triche went from 12.4 to 11.1

James Southerland went from 15.7 to 13.0

Mookie Jones went from 18.8 to 16.3

The last two were in limited action.

This year is not over, of course, so we don’t know how the figures will wind up but these are the changes so far:

Fab Melo from 7.4 to 17.4

Baye Moussa Keita from 11.1 to 14.7

Kris Joseph from 15.8 to 18.4

CJ Fair from 15.5 to 16.5

James Southerland from 13.0 to 25.3

Scoop Jardine from 13.0 to 19.3

Brandon Triche from 11.1 to 16.2

Dion Waiters from 12.3 to 21.4

Mookie Jones from 16.3 to 2.7

If these numbers held up, (and they will certainly change), James Southerland would have the greatest single season improvement since 1983-84, (the earliest year of which all the numbers are available on the SU Athletics site). Fab Melo’s improvement would be the fourth best. The big thing is that everybody is playing better except Mookie, who is just playing out the string on his career here.

　

 

[moqui]

If these numbers held up, (and they will certainly change), James Southerland would have the greatest single season improvement since 1983-84, (the earliest year of which all the numbers are available on the SU Athletics site). Fab Melo’s improvement would be the fourth best. The big thing is that everybody is playing better except Mookie, who is just playing out the string on his career here. 　

as you note, the current numbers will not hold up - the numbers to this point are against the weakest portion of the schedule - but if they did, then this year's squad would boast 3 of the top 7 improvements in nearly 30 seasons. The new list would be

1. Southerland, 12.3
2. Sekunda, 11.8
3. Siock, 11.4
4. D. Johnson, 10.5
5. Melo, 10.0
6. Ellis, 9.5
7. Waiters, 9.1

plus, by my count, Jardine and Triche would account for the 16th (tie) and 22nd (tie) best improvements, as well. That is 5 of the top 25 improvements in a single year.

The other note is Scoop's progression the last 3 years: 9.0 to 16.5 to 13.0 to 19.3 . . . obviously Even Year Scoop kicks Odd Year Scoop's ass