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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 137647, member: 289"] And here it is, (from two years ago), with an update: We can’t know at this time. But I thought it would be interesting to look back at players who had improved markedly from season to the next and to see how Kris’ and Scoop’s improvements compare to their predecessors. Using the Net Points” system, here are the top 25 improvements from one to the next in SU players since 1986-87: Glenn Sekunda +11.8 Freshman: 8.0m 13.6p 6.6r 1.8a 1.6s 0.2b +23.8 9.3mfg 1.1mft 2.7to 7.3pf -20.4 = 3.4NP 3.2OE 0.2FG Sophomore: 12.2m 15.9p 9.1r 2.2a 2.5s 0.9b +30.6 7.1mfg 0.8mft 3.3to 4.2pf -15.4 = 15.2NP 8.0OE 7.2FG Improvements: Across the board but especially rebounding and fouls Dave Siock +11.4 Freshman: 7.1m 3.7p 10.0r 3.0a 0.3s 0.7b 17.7+ 6.7mfg 1.3mft 3.0to 7.3pf 18.3- = -0.6NP -.3OE 3.7FG Sophomore: 9.3m 11.1p 8.2r 2.1a 1.8s 0.0b +23.2 4.6mfg 1.4mft 1.8to 4.6pf -12.4 = 10.8NP 5.1OE 5.7FG Improvements: Mostly scoring and fouls Dave Johnson +10.5 Sophomore: 18.0m 14.6p 5.2r 2.4a 1.0s 0.4b +23.6 8.2mfg 2.0mft 1.7to 3.9pf -15.8= 7.8NP 4.4OE 3.4FG Junior: 34.9m 22.2p 7.2r 2.7a 1.8s 0.1b +34.0 8.1mfg 2.4mft 2.4to 2.8pf -15.7 = 18.3NP 11.7OE 6.6FG Improvements: Scoring, (Dave grew a jump shot), rebounding, fewer fouls LeRon Ellis +9.5 Junior: 21.3m 11.3p 7.6r 1.4a 2.1s 1.5b +23.9 5.6mfg 1.5mft 1.3to 5.6pf -14.0 = 9.9NP 5.7OE 4.2FG Senior: 29.0m 15.3p 10.6r 1.9a 2.7s 3.4b +33.9 5.9mfg 2.0mft 1.9to 4.7pf -14.5 = 19.4NP 7.4OE 12.0FG Improvements: Mostly scoring and rebounding but also blocks. Terrence Roberts +8.9 Freshman: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Terrence Roberts 7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- =[B] [/B]4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: Terrence Roberts 18.5m 15.6p 8.5r 1.3a 2.4s 1.8b 29.6+ 4.7mfg 2.4mft 3.0to 6.5pf 16.6- = 13.0NP 8.5OE 4.5FG Improvements: Mostly scoring. Jason Cipolla 8.4 Junior: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]23.5m 13.1p 3.3r 2.3a 1.7s 0.2b +20.6 7.6mfg 0.8mft 2.1to 2.3pf -12.8 = 7.8NP 4.7OE 3.1FG Senior: 33.4m 15.8p 4.2r 3.3a 1.8s 0.3b +25.4 4.8mfg 0.3mft 2.2to 1.9pf -9.2 = 16.2NP 10.7OE 5.5FG Improvements: Scored more while missing fewer shots. Also more assists.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Kris Joseph 8.0 Freshman: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]12.1m 10.1p 7.1r 1.5a 2.6s 0.7b 22.0+ 5.2mfg 2.7mft 2.4to 3.1pf 13.4- = 8.6NP 2.2OE 6.4OE[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: Kris Joseph 27.8m 15.6p 8.0r 2.5a 2.0s 0.6b 28.7+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 2.5to 2.6pf 12.1- = 16.6NP 8.6OE 8.0FG Improvements: Scoring, free throw shooting, assists [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE] Derrick Coleman +7.8 [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] Freshman: [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2]30.6m 15.6p 11.4r 1.5a 1.5s 2.3b 32.3+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 2.3to 4.1pf 12.8- = [/SIZE][SIZE=3]19.5NP[/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 8.1OE 11.4FG[SIZE=2][/SIZE][/SIZE] Sophomore: 32.3m 16.7p 13.6r 2.7a 1.6s 2.0b 36.6+ 4.4mfg 2.5mft 0.8to 1.6pf 9.3- = [SIZE=3]27.3NP[/SIZE] [SIZE=2] 9.8OE 17.5FG Improvements: Some scoring but more rebounding and assists and fewer turnovers and fouls[/SIZE] Eric Williams +7.5 Freshman: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]8.4m 14.3p 11.4r 2.9a 1.7s 1.0b +30.3 3.8mfg 2.9mft 6.0to 5.0pf -17.7 = 12.6NP 7.6OE 5.0FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 12.5m 17.8p 10.9r 3.2a 2.3s 0.9b +35.1 5.9mfg 0.7mft 4.1to 4.3pf -15.0 = 20.1NP 11.2OE 8.9FG Improvements: Scoring, better shooting from field and foul shots and fewer turnovers. Scoop Jardine +7.5 Freshman: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]19.6m 11.2p 3.1r 5.1a 2.4s 0.2b 22.0+ 5.0mfg 0.4mft 3.7to 3.9pf 13.0- = 9.0NP 5.8OE 3.2FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 22.2m 16.3p 3.5r 7.8a 2.1s 0.1b 29.8+ 6.1mfg 1.2mft 3.4to 2.6pf 13.3- = 16.5NP 9.0OE 7.5FG Improvements: Scoring, assists, fewer fouls. [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE] Stevie Thompson +6.9 [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] Freshman: [SIZE=3][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]12.2m 16.6p 6.0r 2.4a 0.6s 1.9b 27.5+ 7.2mfg 3.4mft 3.8to 4.0pf 18.4- = 9.1NP 6.0OE 3.1FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 30.6m 18.4p 6.4r 2.5a 1.5s 0.4b 29.2+ 5.7mfg 2.6mft 1.8to 3.1pf 13.2- = 16.0NP 10.1OE 5.9FG Improvements: Scoring, better shooting, fewer turnovers and fouls. Etan Thomas: +6.6 Freshman: 16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG Sophomore: 28.8m 15.7p 9.1r 0.6a 1.1s 5.5b +32.0 3.6mfg 2.7mft 2.3to 3.9pf -12.5 = 19.5NP 9.4OE 10.1FG Improvements: More scoring, shot blocking, fewer missed shots, turnovers and fouls. Craig Forth: +6.3 Sophomore: 17.7m 8.5p 7.5r 1.9a 1.0s 2.7b +21.6 3.8mfg 1.3mft 2.5to 5.8pf -13.4 = 8.2NP 3.4OE 4.8FG Junior: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]23.2m 9.8p 10.0r 1.2a 1.0s 3.5b 25.5+ 3.3mfg 0.7mft 2.2to 4.8pf 11.0- = 14.5NP 5.8OE 8.7FG Improvements: Rebounding, blocks, fouls[/FONT][/SIZE] Otis Hill +6.3 Sophomore: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]20.3m 12.8p 8.7r 1.4a 2.0s 0.9b +25.8 4.6mfg 1.4mft 2.6to 6.6pf -15.2 = 10.6NP 6.8OE 3.8FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Junior: 24.3m 20.8p 9.0r 0.9a 1.5s 1.4b +33.6 6.3mfg 1.9mft 2.8to 5.8pf -16.8 = 16.8NP 12.6OE 4.2FG Improvements: Scoring, shooting, avoiding fouls. Adrian Autry +5.9 Sophomore: 32.7m 13.5p 5.0r 4.9a 1.9s 0.2b +25.5 7.5mfg 1.5mft 4.0to 3.8pf -16.8 = 8.7NP 4.5OE 4.2FG Junior: 31.8m 17.2p 4.6r 7.0a 2.5s 0.2b +31.5 8.0mfg 0.9mft 4.4to 3.6pf -16.9 = 14.6NP 8.3OE 6.3FG Improvements: Scoring, assists [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Josh Wright +5.6 [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Freshman: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]8.5m 6.5p 3.0r 8.2a 2.0s 0.0b 19.7+ 6.2mfg 1.0mft 4.5to 3.2pf 14.9- = 4.8NP -0.7OE 5.5FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 12.5m 13.4p 4.2r 5.1a 2.8s 0.0b 25.5+ 5.5mfg 2.6mft 4.4to 2.6pf 15.1- = 10.4NP 5.3OE 5.1FG Improvements: Scoring, (assists went sharply down), Scott McCorkle +5.4 Sophomore: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]7.2m 10.2p 4.1r 2.3a 0.8s 0.0b +17.4 4.1mfg 0.9mft 1.8to 3.5pf -10.3= 7.1NP 5.2OE 1.9FG Junior: 7.2m 13.9p 8.0r 2.4a 2.4s 0.0b +26.7 6.6mfg 0.7mft 2.4to 4.5pf -14.2 = 12.5NP 6.6OE 5.9FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding, steals[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Demetris Nichols +5.4 Sophomore: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]12.9m 12.1p 6.5r 1.5a 1.3s 0.9b 22.3+ 7.3mfg 0.6mft 2.9to 3.7pf 14.5- = 7.8NP 4.2OE 3.6FG [/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] Junior: [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]33.3m 16.0p 7.0r 1.7a 1.5s 1.1b 27.3+ 7.6mfg 1.0mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.1- = 13.2NP 7.4OE 5.8FG Improvements: Scoring[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Conrad McRae +5.1[SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE] Junior: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]29.4m 11.8p 8.4r 1.2a 2.0s 3.3b +26.7 3.6mfg 2.5mft 1.3to 5.3pf -12.7 = 14.0NP 5.7OE 8.3FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Senior: 30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls James Thues +5.1 Freshman: 7.7m 8.4p 2.4r 6.7a 2.6s 0.4b +20.5 4.1mfg 3.0mft 3.2to 4.1pf -14.4= 6.1NP 1.3OE 4.8FG Sophomore: 31.3m 7.2p 3.7r 6.3a 3.6s 0.4b +21.2 3.5mfg 1.0mft 3.1to 2.4pf -10.0 = 11.2NP 2.7OE 8.5FG Improvements: Rebounding, steals, free throw shooting, fewer fouls Hakim Warrick: +5.0 Freshman: 17.4m 14.0p 11.0r 1.2a 1.3s 1.4b +28.9 5.0mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 4.7pf -14.7 = 14.2NP 6.6OE 7.6FG Sophomore: 32.7m 18.1p 10.4r 2.0a 1.7s 1.5b +33.7 5.8mfg 2.2mft 3.2to 3.3pf -14.5 = 19.2NP 10.1OE 9.1FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls Rick Jackson +4.5 Freshman: [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 22.1m 15.0p 10.4r 1.7a 1.6s 2.9b 31.6+ 4.0mfg 1.9mft 2.9to 3.6pf 12.4- = 19.2NP 9.1OE 10.1FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding, Kueth Duany +4.3 Sophomore: [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]18.3m 12.7p 7.2r 1.9a 1.9s 0.8b +24.5 5.5mfg 1.7mft 2.7to 5.6pf -15.5 = 9.0NP 5.5OE 3.5FG[/FONT][/SIZE] Junior: 30.8m 15.9p 6.9r 2.1a 1.9s 0.8b +27.6 7.3mfg 1.3mft 2.5to 3.2pf -14.3 = 13.3NP 7.3OE 6.0FG Improvements: Scoring, fewer fouls [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Damone Brown +4.1 [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Junior: 26.0m 16.4p 9.4r 2.1a 1.5b 0.9b +30.3 6.5mfg 1.3mft 2.3to 4.3pf -14.4 = 15.9NP 8.6OE 7.3FG [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Senior: 35.9m 18.3p 9.8r 2.1a 1.9s 1.6b +33.7 7.3mfg 1.1mft 2.3to 3.0pf -13.7 = 20.0NP 9.9OE 10.1FG Improvements: Points, blocks, fewer fouls [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Billy Owens: +4.0 [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Freshman: 32.0m 16.3p 8.7r 3.7a 2.1s 1.2b 32.0+ 5.9mfg 1.7mft 2.5to 3.6pf 13.7- = 18.3NP 8.7OE 9.6FG [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Sophomore: 36.0m 20.3p 9.3r 5.1a 2.5s 0.8b +38.0 8.1mfg 1.6mft 2.7to 3.3pf -15.7 = 22.3NP 10.6OE 11.7FG Improvements: Scoring, assists Jeremy McNeill +4.0 Freshman: 15.9m 6.3p 7.9r 0.3a 0.8s 4.7b +20.0 1.3mfg 1.2mft 1.9to 7.6pf -12.0 = 8.0NP 3.8OE 4.2FG Sophomore: 14.7m 9.2p 10.2r 0.3a 1.3s 4.1b +25.1 1.9mfg 1.5mft 2.1to 7.6pf -13.1 = 12.0NP 5.8OE 6.2FG Improvements: Scoring, rebounding [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Comments: There are actually 26 players here because of a tie for 25th. Several guys, (Sekunda, Siock, Williams, McCorkle, Wright), were career reserves whose numbers were in limited playing time and less meaningful. 15 of the 26 guys were 6-8 or more, indicating that big men have the most improving to do. 15 of the 26 players had this improvement from their freshman to sophomore years. 7 guys improved from their sophomore to their junior years. The other 4 were junior to senior. Two of those guys transferred here as juniors, (Ellis and Cipolla). That means that 17 of the 26 biggest improvements in the last 24 years have come from players between their first and second years here. That indicates that, when you give the staff here a year to work with a player, they have a good chance to show substantial improvement. The most likely areas of improvement are in scoring and avoiding fouls. The most likely players to show substantial improvement next year are the freshmen: Brandon Triche, Mookie Jones, DaShonte Riley and James Southerland. It’s less likely that Rick Jackson, Wes Johnson, (if he were to come back), Kris Joseph or Scoop Jardine were to show significant improvement but it’s not impossible. [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Here is a chart of all the players who have played, (entire), four year careers here, just listing their “Net Points” and the net improvement from their freshman to their senior seasons. My records are limited to scholarship players who played 100 minutes in a season so some four year guys are not listed here because they had a season where they played less than that. [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] Derrick Coleman 19.5 27.3 28.5 26.7 +7.2 Stevie Thompson 9.1 16.0 19.9 15.6 +6.5 Dave Johnson 6.7 7.8 18.3 14.1 +7.4 Dave Siock -0.6 10.8 3.8 -0.8 -0.2 Michael Edwards 9.5 6.5 6.4 3.2 -6.3 Conrad McRae 10.6 14.9 14.0 19.1 +8.5 Adrian Autry 8.4 8.7 14.6 16.8 +8.4 Scott McCorkle 14.1 7.1 12.5 13.2 -0.9 Lawrence Moten 18.7 17.4 19.6 16.6 -2.1 Luke Jackson 6.1 8.4 11.8 12.8 +6.7 John Wallace 16.0 20.3 22.7 22.6 +6.6 Lazarus Sims 2.8 7.7 10.3 11.8 +9.0 Otis Hill 13.1 10.6 16.8 17.8 +4.7 Todd Burgan 10.9 13.1 13.9 16.2 +5.3 Jason Hart 10.6 8.9 12.8 12.7 +2.1 Etan Thomas 12.9 19.5 21.9 21.8 +8.9 Alan Griffin 5.8 8.0 10.7 10.7 +4.9 Preston Shumpert 11.8 14.1 17.5 18.3 +6.5 Kueth Duany 10.9 9.0 13.3 12.6 +1.7 Jeremy McNeill 8.0 12.0 11.8 11.6 +3.6 Craig Forth 10.7 8.2 14.5 14.4 +3.7 Hakim Warrick 14.2 19.2 19.3 20.5 +6.3 Josh Pace 13.5 15.4 13.5 16.2 +2.7 Gerry McNamara 12.9 13.6 13.3 14.2 +1.3 Demetris Nichols 5.7 7.8 13.2 17.9 +12.2 Terrence Roberts 4.1 13.0 14.5 14.5 +10.4 Arinze Onukau 13.5 17.3 17.4 18.5 +5.0 Andy Rautins 8.3 8.9 11.6 15.4 +7.1 Comments: Demetris Nichols wins the award as the player who improved the most from his freshman to the his senior season. His teammate, Terrence Roberts is second. Mookie Watkins is one of those who didn’t play 100 minutes as a freshman. He improved from 14.1 as a sophomore to 16.6 as a senior. Maybe we don’t give those guys enough credit. Of the 28 players who have played at least 100 minutes for four year here since 1986, 24 of them have improved from their freshmen to their seniors years. Three were career reserves and the other was Lawrence Moten who was not well-served by a switch from small forward, his natural position, to shooting guard. These players averaged 10.3 as freshmen, 12.1 as sophomores, (+1.8), 14.9 as juniors, (+2.8), and 15.2 as seniors, (+0.3) so in this sample, the biggest improvement comes between the sophomore and junior years, which bodes well for Kris and Scoop to show us even more next year. 2011 Update: Rick Jackson completed a four year career with these numbers: 14.7 19.2 20.3 22.1 No players other than Jackson who were on the team in 2009-2010 improved last year: Kris Joseph went from 16.6 to 15.8 Scoop Jardine went from 16.5 to 13.0 Brandon Triche went from 12.4 to 11.1 James Southerland went from 15.7 to 13.0 Mookie Jones went from 18.8 to 16.3 The last two were in limited action. This year is not over, of course, so we don’t know how the figures will wind up but these are the changes so far: Fab Melo from 7.4 to 17.4 Baye Moussa Keita from 11.1 to 14.7 Kris Joseph from 15.8 to 18.4 CJ Fair from 15.5 to 16.5 James Southerland from 13.0 to 25.3 Scoop Jardine from 13.0 to 19.3 Brandon Triche from 11.1 to 16.2 Dion Waiters from 12.3 to 21.4 Mookie Jones from 16.3 to 2.7 If these numbers held up, (and they will certainly change), James Southerland would have the greatest single season improvement since 1983-84, (the earliest year of which all the numbers are available on the SU Athletics site). Fab Melo’s improvement would be the fourth best. The big thing is that everybody is playing better except Mookie, who is just playing out the string on his career here. 　 [/QUOTE]

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