NET Rankings...

[OrangeXtreme]

#177.

At least we're ahead of Miami and Va Tech.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Texas is 58th, so a Q2 loss for the time being. Texas Tech a Q1. All of our wins are Q4.

 

[pwong]

7 ACC teams here is less than ideal

 

[MikeSU02]

7 ACC teams here is less than ideal

We are screwed even if we can bounce back to get some unexpected wins.

We are already toast and it's the beginning of December. Not great.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

We are screwed even if we can bounce back to get some unexpected wins.

We are already toast and it's the beginning of December. Not great.

Guess we better cancel the season then. See everyone in 11 months!

 

[Orangezoo]

We are screwed even if we can bounce back to get some unexpected wins.

We are already toast and it's the beginning of December. Not great.

The ACC has major issues. Becoming clear as day that $$$ is playing a bigger role more every year. Which at this point you just throw your arms up. An unstructured jr NBA.

I know I’m a broken record but cbb is just about ruined. CFB still is a money game and is tainted too but there is something still there to me albeit I don’t know for how long.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Need to go like 14-6 in the ACC

 

[Marsh01]

177 is beyond bad. Like zero chance at the tourney bad

 

[Cusefan0307]

Need to go like 14-6 in the ACC

Thing is you can go 14-6 in the ACC and still beat no one of substance.

 

[OptimusOtto]

We are screwed even if we can bounce back to get some unexpected wins.

We are already toast and it's the beginning of December. Not great.

The NET is far from end all be all, especially at the beginning of December. It's very simple, win games and keep winning.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Thing is you can go 14-6 in the ACC and still be no one of substance.

I'll take my chances going 14-6 though. Which probably won't happen.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

The ACC has major issues. Becoming clear as day that $$$ is playing a bigger role more every year.

Not just players but coaches too. Ten years ago the SEC had fallen off big time. Since then here are some of their hires:

Auburn: Bruce Pearl
Alabama: Nate Oats
Arkansas: Eric Musselman, then Calipari (we'll see how that goes)
LSU: Will Wade (got caught doing what everyone does and is now legal)
Mississippi State: Chris Jans
South Carolina: Frank Martin
Tennessee: Rick Barnes
Texas A&M: Buzz Williams

There have been some flops (i.e. Crean and Stackhouse), but some of these schools had little basketball history before those guys came along, especially Auburn and Alabama.

"Family" hires and younger guys can work, but it pays to have someone who knows what they're doing and has proven it.

 

[MikeSU02]

Guess we better cancel the season then. See everyone in 11 months!

No one is saying not to watch or support the team. But pretending that reality isn't reality is what got us into this mess in the first place.

The ACC is screwed, combined with our own program's situation, we are in dire straits.

Again, support the team - of course. Pretend we're in a good spot to even make the tournament? Sorry, I won't play pretend.

 

[Sbucketball]

7 ACC teams here is less than ideal

We are currently ranked as the 4th worst HM basketball team. Only 3 teams worse than us at the moment, and 2 of them are in the ACC.

 

[Orangezoo]

Not just players but coaches too. Ten years ago the SEC had fallen off big time. Since then here are some of their hires:

Auburn: Bruce Pearl
Alabama: Nate Oats
Arkansas: Eric Musselman, then Calipari (we'll see how that goes)
LSU: Will Wade (got caught doing what everyone does and is now legal)
Mississippi State: Chris Jans
South Carolina: Frank Martin
Tennessee: Rick Barnes
Texas A&M: Buzz Williams

There have been some flops (i.e. Crean and Stackhouse), but some of these schools had little basketball history before those guys came along, especially Auburn and Alabama.

"Family" hires and younger guys can work, but it pays to have someone who knows what they're doing and has proven it.

I just don’t think people fully comprehend the amount of money that exists around the football factory programs. It’s unreal the old and new money alike that surrounds these schools. To have a chancellor that might not be helping our cause (as some posters have alluded) in what isn’t a fair fight to begin with I’m sure hurts even more. That said I don’t know how you can catch up chasing down the programs swimming in money pools or those willing to run in the negative and sacrifice one major sport for another.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Pretend we're in a good spot to even make the tournament? Sorry, I won't play pretend.

I don't spend as much time on the forum as others do, but were there credible people making this claim?

 

[MikeSU02]

I don't spend as much time on the forum as others do, but were there credible people making this claim?

I don't want to have this devolve into a pie fight and stay on topic, so this is what I'll say:

I think most rational people (including me) had the hope that we would make the tourney (nothing more, nothing less). But were very cautious about this because of all the mid major transfers.

I think others thought we would be better (ie - carlos would be a really good PG, etc).

Upon seeing the team off the bat, I just let that hope go.

Anyway, point being, the NET ranking for us and the conference basically dropped an anvil on any last irrational hope I had for making the tournament, albeit that hope being very tiny.

 

[DomeHolmes]

We are currently ranked as the 4th worst HM basketball team. Only 3 teams worse than us at the moment, and 2 of them are in the ACC.

IMO, we are 4-2 with single digit losses in games we were in to the end Vs good teams. Beat Georgetown, Maryland and 13-7 ACC gets us in the discussion, at least. Too soon to say if possible though.

the 4th worst team doesn’t lose close games to Texas and Texas tech.

Vegas point spread head to head is the only “ranking” that is removes most bias and flawed metrics

 

[Blanko97]

#177 YIKES. Dont think its ever been that bad this early in the year. But thats what single digit wins over sub 200 teams will do for you

 

[JustPherU]

IMO, we are 4-2 with single digit losses in games we were in to the end Vs good teams. Beat Georgetown, Maryland and 13-7 ACC gets us in the discussion, at least. Too soon to say if possible though.

the 4th worst team doesn’t lose close games to Texas and Texas tech.

Vegas point spread head to head is the only “ranking” that is removes most bias and flawed metrics

What does beating Georgetown do for a resume?

 

[5OutFred]

Not sure what people expected - good teams beat good teams, not just keep it close. They also blow out poor teams. This team has done neither.

While the NET has its flaws, it's ignorant to act like it doesn't matter. We knew this team had a long way to go, and now so does the rest of the country.

 

[MikeSU02]

==

Not sure what people expected - good teams beat good teams, not just keep it close. They also blow out poor teams. This team has done neither.

While the NET has its flaws, it's ignorant to act like it doesn't matter. We knew this team had a long way to go, and now so does the rest of the country.

Yeah, this is exactly it. I don't fully agree with NET, but it's what it is. And we're toast.

 

[jncuse]

2 very concerning things, that were not unexpected however if you had followed my tracking thread.
1) Most concerning is the ACC Net's overall and the ACC Average NET (and how many teams have bad ones). We are far behind the SEC, B10 and B12. At least the ACC is not too far off the Big East, and the MWC is clearly down this year.
2) Our Individual NET.

Lets focus on 1) and how it impacts Syracuse. The main selection criteria is still the quality of your W-L record, and Q1 wins, Q2 wins, and bad losses. Q1 and Q2 wins will be very hard to come by in the ACC this year because there are so many mediocre teams. There will also likely be a downward grind in average NET in the ACC as conference moves forward in Jan/Feb... and an opposite upward grind in the SEC, B12, B10. It forces ACC teams to have really good conference records to have consideration and accumulate enough comparable quality.

In terms of 2) our Individual NET.
a) It is correct that Individual NET, which is heavily margin impacted, is not going to get you directly in the tournament or out of the tournament. As noted above its still the quality of your record, your wins, and your bad losses.
b) We have seen power teams in the high 20's miss and teams in the mid 70's get in.
c) That being said just to reach that high 70s number is going to be very hard. We are going to have to win, and win some games by a really nice margin to make up for both the deficit we have created and the fact that we are not beating as valued teams in conference.
d) There is also a point where the NET is so high that it can be biased against you despite your wins and losses. We were not a tourney team last year, but we were closer than our NET suggested at times and we received no consideration. The best example might be Michigan St/Indiana last year in terms of a high NET biasing the rest of your resume. Indiana has a NET in the 90's but their resume in terms of w/L's were not that different. indiana was never considered for the tourney.

 

[phil77]

Tennesse is a must-win for our tournament hopes.

 

[DomeHolmes]

What does beating Georgetown do for a resume?

Nothing, just can’t lose to them. ( And our ranking is stupid).

BTW UConn is #39!!!! With 3 losses to unranked teams, one a blow out!!!

By wins and close losses, our resume is just as good if not better than theirs. And we are #177. It's just stupid. Had we beat Texas, we’d STILL be behind them because of score differential.

Margin of victory vs bad teams is how to game the NET. That’s what has Yukon at #39. That is what the Mountain West did last year and their conference stunk. Before that the Missouri Valley used to get 4 garbage teams in because they figured out RPI before the committee scrapped that metric.

get 3 quad 1 wins, don’t lose any non conference except Tenn, go 13-7 ACC we are probably in. Not a huge task. But not easy either.

“who did you play, who did you beat” is still the top metric.