Newsflash to fans of other teams that are reading this board | Syracusefan.com

Newsflash to fans of other teams that are reading this board

Alsacs

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1. We Syracuse fans DO NOT think we did nothing wrong. Our fanbase accepts we committed some NCAA infractions, but the level of sanctions we were hit with were not consistent with what the NCAA violations the NCAA said we were guilty of.
2. We Syracuse fans DO NOT think this a Penn State situation. Our coach did not coverup crimes, he did not call mommy and daddy when our players failed drug tests.
3. LOL to Jim Boeheim cheated crowd. Go read the NCAA report you morons. Jim Boeheim did not cheat what he did was run a loose ship and while he should have been tougher on his players he did not "cheat".
4. Mike Hopkins will be the next HC of Syracuse. He has been the chief recruiter for the past 8 years and he can recruit and will have the Dome/30k crowds, Melo Center, and playing time to recruit elite prospects.
5. Thanks for your interest in Syracuse Basketball.

Our violations are why I hate the media. They want to make news as much as they want to report it.
 
The only thing I have to say to fans of other teams is that I am very confident if they really read into the allegations, they'll also see how minor the violations were, and how extreme the punishments were.

If they want to call us cheaters, they can. If they want to figure out the truth for themselves, then I recommend they go through our NCAA board and/or read the actual report for themselves with a clear mind. Everything that has been done to Syracuse is an injustice.
 
1. We Syracuse fans DO NOT think we did nothing wrong. Our fanbase accepts we committed some NCAA infractions, but the level of sanctions we were hit with were not consistent with what the NCAA violations the NCAA said we were guilty of.
2. We Syracuse fans DO NOT think this a Penn State situation. Our coach did not coverup crimes, he did not call mommy and daddy when our players failed drug tests.
3. LOL to Jim Boeheim cheated crowd. Go read the NCAA report you morons. Jim Boeheim did not cheat what he did was run a loose ship and while he should have been tougher on his players he did not "cheat".
4. Mike Hopkins will be the next HC of Syracuse. He has been the chief recruiter for the past 8 years and he can recruit and will have the Dome/30k crowds, Melo Center, and playing time to recruit elite prospects.
5. Thanks for your interest in Syracuse Basketball.

Our violations are why I hate the media. They want to make news as much as they want to report it.
Correction: They want to make news MORE than they want to report it.
 
Correction: They want to make news MORE than they want to report it.
Most of the media are compelled to run with the PC pack lest they jeopardize their membership in the club. They need to stick to the narrative that big time college athletics is corrupt and evil, all coaches are cheaters who would sell their mother for another win, all administrators care only about athletic department revenue and don't care about academics or integrity. It takes a brave person to take a different position.
 
Correction: They want to make news MORE than they want to report it.


Agreed. With the proliferation of 24 hour sports media, most of them resort to taking controversial positions to attract attention amidst so many alternative options. The media [not just the sports variety] LOVES scandal, and they'll devote non-stop coverage to any hot topic to exploit short-term interest as much as possible. And when there isn't any more news to discuss on a hot topic, they'll continue to manufacture stuff to talk about by roping in experts that don't have anything to do with the topic at hand to speculate. This will continue until a bigger, newer, sexier scandal occurs, at which point they'll drop the original topic like a hot potato and move on.
 
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Correction: They want to make news MORE than they want to report it.

I also think we are seeing a lot of posturing by a lot of reporters who (A) didn't get in to Newhouse, and (B) are envious of the more stellar and often level headed journalists, analysts, hosts, whatever, who did and have done well.

Most of the higher caliber sports media people I've heard have responded to this in a similar manner to our fanbase- Wilbon, Kornheiser, Bilas, Vitale- none of whom are Newhouse grads. I know Kornheiser said on his show that in his opinion, someone at the NCAA was acting out a personal grudge against JB. I also believe he referenced the Newhouse jealousy though, but I could be wrong.

Some of the blowhards on talk radio and in the media are untalented and trying to get ratings via stirring up trouble where very little actually exists.
 
I also think we are seeing a lot of posturing by a lot of reporters who (A) didn't get in to Newhouse, and (B) are envious of the more stellar and often level headed journalists, analysts, hosts, whatever, who did and have done well.

Most of the higher caliber sports media people I've heard have responded to this in a similar manner to our fanbase- Wilbon, Kornheiser, Bilas, Vitale- none of whom are Newhouse grads. I know Kornheiser said on his show that in his opinion, someone at the NCAA was acting out a personal grudge against JB. I also believe he referenced the Newhouse jealousy though, but I could be wrong.

Some of the blowhards on talk radio and in the media are untalented and trying to get ratings via stirring up trouble where very little actually exists.

That's Pat Forde 100%.
 
The only thing I have to say to fans of other teams is that I am very confident if they really read into the allegations, they'll also see how minor the violations were, and how extreme the punishments were.

If they want to call us cheaters, they can. If they want to figure out the truth for themselves, then I recommend they go through our NCAA board and/or read the actual report for themselves with a clear mind. Everything that has been done to Syracuse is an injustice.

The Fab scenario and the re-writing/cheating issues are very significant and not minor at all. What is higher education without the belief that students are earning the grades they deserve and doing the work they should? That alone is a good reason Dr. Gross took one for the team. This may not be to the scale of UNC but it's a similar issue and I think we're all outraged about their shenanigans so we should be of this too.
 
The Fab scenario and the re-writing/cheating issues are very significant and not minor at all. What is higher education without the belief that students are earning the grades they deserve and doing the work they should? That alone is a good reason Dr. Gross took one for the team. This may not be to the scale of UNC but it's a similar issue and I think we're all outraged about their shenanigans so we should be of this too.

Speak for yourself. I'm not outraged at all and instead I'm surprised that there was only 1 instance of this kind over 10 years. I've always assumed academics for NCAA football and basketball athletes were such a joke that none of the athletes did their work at all.

There's too much money involved for a university to do anything but what Syracuse did. If you have a problem with that then you need to take it up with the NCAA's student-athlete policy that gives millions to schools and $0 to players and pretends that academics mean anything at all. You're outraged over something the NCAA isn't even really outraged over. It's all just PR.
 
I also think we are seeing a lot of posturing by a lot of reporters who (A) didn't get in to Newhouse, and (B) are envious of the more stellar and often level headed journalists, analysts, hosts, whatever, who did and have done well.

Most of the higher caliber sports media people I've heard have responded to this in a similar manner to our fanbase- Wilbon, Kornheiser, Bilas, Vitale- none of whom are Newhouse grads. I know Kornheiser said on his show that in his opinion, someone at the NCAA was acting out a personal grudge against JB. I also believe he referenced the Newhouse jealousy though, but I could be wrong.

Some of the blowhards on talk radio and in the media are untalented and trying to get ratings via stirring up trouble where very little actually exists.
Without getting into the merits of the underlying issue, please say you're kidding about anyone being jealous of people who went to Newhouse.

Having been in the news business for quite a while, I've never seen or heard such a thing.
In fact, I'm jealous of people who went to places like UCLA, UNC or Florida where it's not snowing 7 months a year and women aren't wrapped up in parkas.
 
Without getting into the merits of the underlying issue, please say you're kidding about anyone being jealous of people who went to Newhouse.

Having been in the news business for quite a while, I've never seen or heard such a thing.
In fact, I'm jealous of people who went to places like UCLA, UNC or Florida where it's not snowing 7 months a year and women aren't wrapped up in parkas.

I stand by my post.
 
Some of the blowhards on talk radio and in the media are untalented and trying to get ratings via stirring up trouble where very little actually exists.

Because you know it's all about those ratings, bout those ratings, no facts.

Let me enlighten you, the first word in the ESPN acronym is Entertainment and here's another thing; the N doesn't stand for news.
 
Anytime the NCAA issues penalties, there's going to be a public reaction. Some people will be thoughtful; some won't. The scum comes to the top when the teapot boils.

We certainly made mistakes:

1. Failing to supervise CFS internship hours; failing to discover extra benefits paid to student athletes by someone operating under the Athletic Department's nose in 2005 and 2006; and taking 2 years 5 months to investigate and report these failures - no excuses;
2. Writing a paper (or parts of one) for Fab's grade change and deleting it (deception) ... this was academic fraud -- no excuses;
3. Failing to follow our own (voluntary) drug policy and waiting until 2009 to conform it to current practices - no excuses.

Here's what you WON'T FIND in the NCAA's report:

YMCA

1. Both the YMCA and the Booster (who cooperated) dispute the NCAA's conclusions and have publicly stated that SA's CFS internship hours were monitored.
2. SU also removed academic credit from SA's whose hours could not be verified, and rescinded at least one SA's diploma;
3. No SA's participated in competition after receiving extra benefits from the booster.

ACADEMIC MATTERS

1. Fab was suspended as soon as his academic eligibility was in question;
2. Fab remained suspended after improprieties with his grade change request were discovered and never played in the NCAA's that year;
3. The "extra assistance" supposedly given to other SA's was an NCAA conclusion unsupported by SU's internal academic standards, and in each case after the circumstances were investigated, the SA's were found not to have violated academic policy.

DRUG POLICY

1. Schools are not required to have a policy at all. If they do, they're supposed to follow it, but in SU's case, the "violations" (testing sent to the AD, not JB; and some athletes allowed to participate after positive tests) all involved low-level marijuana use ... common among students across the country;
2. Sending drug test information to the AD instead of the coach represented an improvement in Drug policy enforcement at SU; and
3. Fining the University $1M, vacating over 100 wins and suspending the coach for half a season for violating a policy that IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED at other institutions is grossly disproportionate and unfair.

IMPROVEMENTS AT SU

1. The coach hired Kissel to clean up the program;
2. The coach told Kissel that Fab could be reinstated only if the "rules" were followed;
3. The coach had no direct involvement in any of the violations. Indeed, his primary areas of responsibility (coaching and recruiting) are unquestioned in a report covering more than 10 years.

There's also little acknowledgement in the report of the many steps that SU took to make improvements:

  • Fundamentally restructuring the entire student-athlete academic support office, that now reports solely to Academic Affairs, in lieu of jointly to the Athletics Department
  • Creating a new Assistant Provost for Student-Athlete Development and more than doubling the number of full-time academic support staff for our student-athletes
  • Redesigning the University's voluntary Drug Education and Deterrence Program for student-athletes, consistent with best practices and peer institutions
  • Establishing an Athletics Committee of the University's Board of Trustees, that oversees the athletics department and receives reports of athletics issues, including compliance matters
  • Creating an Athletics Compliance Oversight Committee that includes the University's Faculty Athletics Representative, and a representative from Academic Affairs. This committee reviews the status of athletic compliance initiatives and monitors compliance
  • Assigning oversight of the Office of Athletics Compliance to the University General Counsel
  • Implementing new and wide-ranging enhanced compliance training programs for all student-athletes and coaches focused on NCAA, ACC and University rules and policies
  • Taking action to separate employment with two former athletics staff members found to have been involved in academic misconduct; and
  • Disassociating non-SU affiliated persons responsible for, or involved in, violations.
  • AND [by edit] firing the assistant AD, re-assigning the AD; forcing the head coach to retire early; self-imposing a 2 year period of probation and a one-year ban on post season competition.
 
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Anytime the NCAA issues penalties, there's going to be a public reaction. Some people will be thoughtful; some won't. The scum comes to the top when the teapot boils.

We certainly made mistakes:

1. Failing to supervise CFS internship hours; failing to discover extra benefits paid to student athletes by someone operating under the Athletic Department's nose in 2005 and 2006; and taking 2 years 5 months to investigate and report these failures - no excuses;
2. Writing a paper for Fab's grade change and deleting it (deception) ... this was academic fraud -- no excuses;
3. Failing to follow our own (voluntary) drug policy and waiting until 2009 to conform it to current practices - no excuses.

Here's what you WON'T FIND in the NCAA's report:

YMCA

1. Both the YMCA and the Booster (who cooperated) dispute the NCAA's conclusions and have publicly stated that SA's CFS internship hours were monitored.
2. SU also removed academic credit from SA's whose hours could not be verified, and rescinded at least one SA's diploma;
3. No SA's participated in competition after receiving extra benefits from the booster.

ACADEMIC MATTERS

1. Fab was suspended as soon as his academic eligibility was in question;
2. Fab remained suspended after improprieties with his grade change request were discovered and never played in the NCAA's that year;
3. The "extra assistance" supposedly given to other SA's was an NCAA conclusion unsupported by SU's internal academic standards, and in each case after the circumstances were investigated, the SA's were found not to have violated academic policy.

DRUG POLICY

1. Schools are not required to have a policy at all. If they do, they're supposed to follow it, but in SU's case, the "violations" (testing sent to the AD, not JB; and some athletes allowed to participate after positive tests) all involved low-level marijuana use ... common among students across the country;
2. Sending drug test information to the AD instead of the coach represented an improvement in Drug policy enforcement at SU; and
3. Fining the University $1M and suspending the coach for half a season for violating a policy that IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED at other institutions is completely disproportionate and unfair.

IMPROVEMENTS AT SU

1. The coach hired Kissel to clean up the program;
2. The coach told Kissel that Fab could be reinstated only if the "rules" were followed;
3. The coach had no direct involvement in any of the violations. Indeed, his primary areas of responsibility (coaching and recruiting) are unquestioned in a report covering more than 10 years.

There's also little acknowledgement in the report of the many steps that SU took to make improvements:

  • Fundamentally restructuring the entire student-athlete academic support office, that now reports solely to Academic Affairs, in lieu of jointly to the Athletics Department
  • Creating a new Assistant Provost for Student-Athlete Development and more than doubling the number of full-time academic support staff for our student-athletes
  • Redesigning the University's voluntary Drug Education and Deterrence Program for student-athletes, consistent with best practices and peer institutions
  • Establishing an Athletics Committee of the University's Board of Trustees, that oversees the athletics department and receives reports of athletics issues, including compliance matters
  • Creating an Athletics Compliance Oversight Committee that includes the University's Faculty Athletics Representative, and a representative from Academic Affairs. This committee reviews the status of athletic compliance initiatives and monitors compliance
  • Assigning oversight of the Office of Athletics Compliance to the University General Counsel
  • Implementing new and wide-ranging enhanced compliance training programs for all student-athletes and coaches focused on NCAA, ACC and University rules and policies
  • Taking action to separate employment with two former athletics staff members found to have been involved in academic misconduct; and
  • Disassociating non-SU affiliated persons responsible for, or involved in, violations.

Can I like this twice.
 
Correction: They want to make news MORE than they want to report it.

At the end of the day, it's all about how many hits they can get on a website or how high they can get their ratings.
 
Anytime the NCAA issues penalties, there's going to be a public reaction. Some people will be thoughtful; some won't. The scum comes to the top when the teapot boils.

We certainly made mistakes:

1. Failing to supervise CFS internship hours; failing to discover extra benefits paid to student athletes by someone operating under the Athletic Department's nose in 2005 and 2006; and taking 2 years 5 months to investigate and report these failures - no excuses;
2. Writing a paper for Fab's grade change and deleting it (deception) ... this was academic fraud -- no excuses;
3. Failing to follow our own (voluntary) drug policy and waiting until 2009 to conform it to current practices - no excuses.

Here's what you WON'T FIND in the NCAA's report:

YMCA

1. Both the YMCA and the Booster (who cooperated) dispute the NCAA's conclusions and have publicly stated that SA's CFS internship hours were monitored.
2. SU also removed academic credit from SA's whose hours could not be verified, and rescinded at least one SA's diploma;
3. No SA's participated in competition after receiving extra benefits from the booster.

ACADEMIC MATTERS

1. Fab was suspended as soon as his academic eligibility was in question;
2. Fab remained suspended after improprieties with his grade change request were discovered and never played in the NCAA's that year;
3. The "extra assistance" supposedly given to other SA's was an NCAA conclusion unsupported by SU's internal academic standards, and in each case after the circumstances were investigated, the SA's were found not to have violated academic policy.

DRUG POLICY

1. Schools are not required to have a policy at all. If they do, they're supposed to follow it, but in SU's case, the "violations" (testing sent to the AD, not JB; and some athletes allowed to participate after positive tests) all involved low-level marijuana use ... common among students across the country;
2. Sending drug test information to the AD instead of the coach represented an improvement in Drug policy enforcement at SU; and
3. Fining the University $1M and suspending the coach for half a season for violating a policy that IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED at other institutions is completely disproportionate and unfair.

IMPROVEMENTS AT SU

1. The coach hired Kissel to clean up the program;
2. The coach told Kissel that Fab could be reinstated only if the "rules" were followed;
3. The coach had no direct involvement in any of the violations. Indeed, his primary areas of responsibility (coaching and recruiting) are unquestioned in a report covering more than 10 years.

There's also little acknowledgement in the report of the many steps that SU took to make improvements:

  • Fundamentally restructuring the entire student-athlete academic support office, that now reports solely to Academic Affairs, in lieu of jointly to the Athletics Department
  • Creating a new Assistant Provost for Student-Athlete Development and more than doubling the number of full-time academic support staff for our student-athletes
  • Redesigning the University's voluntary Drug Education and Deterrence Program for student-athletes, consistent with best practices and peer institutions
  • Establishing an Athletics Committee of the University's Board of Trustees, that oversees the athletics department and receives reports of athletics issues, including compliance matters
  • Creating an Athletics Compliance Oversight Committee that includes the University's Faculty Athletics Representative, and a representative from Academic Affairs. This committee reviews the status of athletic compliance initiatives and monitors compliance
  • Assigning oversight of the Office of Athletics Compliance to the University General Counsel
  • Implementing new and wide-ranging enhanced compliance training programs for all student-athletes and coaches focused on NCAA, ACC and University rules and policies
  • Taking action to separate employment with two former athletics staff members found to have been involved in academic misconduct; and
  • Disassociating non-SU affiliated persons responsible for, or involved in, violations.
Very good job summarizing were we are at this point with the NCAA mess. Of course I am a fan of "boiling down and bullet points". The only thing that could be better would be to have this available for all the headline viewers to read rather than being buried here in the basketball board.
 
reedny said:
Anytime the NCAA issues penalties, there's going to be a public reaction. Some people will be thoughtful; some won't. The scum comes to the top when the teapot boils. We certainly made mistakes: 1. Failing to supervise CFS internship hours; failing to discover extra benefits paid to student athletes by someone operating under the Athletic Department's nose in 2005 and 2006; and taking 2 years 5 months to investigate and report these failures - no excuses; 2. Writing a paper for Fab's grade change and deleting it (deception) ... this was academic fraud -- no excuses; 3. Failing to follow our own (voluntary) drug policy and waiting until 2009 to conform it to current practices - no excuses. Here's what you WON'T FIND in the NCAA's report: YMCA 1. Both the YMCA and the Booster (who cooperated) dispute the NCAA's conclusions and have publicly stated that SA's CFS internship hours were monitored. 2. SU also removed academic credit from SA's whose hours could not be verified, and rescinded at least one SA's diploma; 3. No SA's participated in competition after receiving extra benefits from the booster. ACADEMIC MATTERS 1. Fab was suspended as soon as his academic eligibility was in question; 2. Fab remained suspended after improprieties with his grade change request were discovered and never played in the NCAA's that year; 3. The "extra assistance" supposedly given to other SA's was an NCAA conclusion unsupported by SU's internal academic standards, and in each case after the circumstances were investigated, the SA's were found not to have violated academic policy. DRUG POLICY 1. Schools are not required to have a policy at all. If they do, they're supposed to follow it, but in SU's case, the "violations" (testing sent to the AD, not JB; and some athletes allowed to participate after positive tests) all involved low-level marijuana use ... common among students across the country; 2. Sending drug test information to the AD instead of the coach represented an improvement in Drug policy enforcement at SU; and 3. Fining the University $1M, vacating over 100 wins and suspending the coach for half a season for violating a policy that IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED at other institutions is grossly disproportionate and unfair. IMPROVEMENTS AT SU 1. The coach hired Kissel to clean up the program; 2. The coach told Kissel that Fab could be reinstated only if the "rules" were followed; 3. The coach had no direct involvement in any of the violations. Indeed, his primary areas of responsibility (coaching and recruiting) are unquestioned in a report covering more than 10 years. There's also little acknowledgement in the report of the many steps that SU took to make improvements: [*]Fundamentally restructuring the entire student-athlete academic support office, that now reports solely to Academic Affairs, in lieu of jointly to the Athletics Department [*]Creating a new Assistant Provost for Student-Athlete Development and more than doubling the number of full-time academic support staff for our student-athletes [*]Redesigning the University's voluntary Drug Education and Deterrence Program for student-athletes, consistent with best practices and peer institutions [*]Establishing an Athletics Committee of the University's Board of Trustees, that oversees the athletics department and receives reports of athletics issues, including compliance matters [*]Creating an Athletics Compliance Oversight Committee that includes the University's Faculty Athletics Representative, and a representative from Academic Affairs. This committee reviews the status of athletic compliance initiatives and monitors compliance [*]Assigning oversight of the Office of Athletics Compliance to the University General Counsel [*]Implementing new and wide-ranging enhanced compliance training programs for all student-athletes and coaches focused on NCAA, ACC and University rules and policies [*]Taking action to separate employment with two former athletics staff members found to have been involved in academic misconduct; and [*]Disassociating non-SU affiliated persons responsible for, or involved in, violations. [*]AND [by edit] firing the assistant AD, re-assigning the AD and forcing the head coach to retire early.

Great post. Only quibble: Fab wrote the paper, but didn't include two citations. Those were added by Kissel and the receptionist.
 
Great post. Only quibble: Fab wrote the paper, but didn't include two citations. Those were added by Kissel and the receptionist.


Here's what I don't understand; if it's your personal life story - what is there to cite to?
 
Here's what I don't understand; if it's your personal life story - what is there to cite to?
he may have referenced the political history of Portugal or some other historical facts that were not in his words, hence the citation.
 
General rule of thumb. When other fans come to your board and comment about your program, take shots where they can, it's for one of two reasons.

1. They are jealous of your program. 90%
2. They are a fan of a program like Kentucky, Duke, and consider your in their peer group. 10%

Neither is a bad thing.
 
I spoke to a buddy of mine this afternoon, who is not a Syracuse or Jim Boehiem fan for that matter. He attended grad school at a Big East university years ago and was also an assistant coach for men's lacrosse. He laughed at the NCAA's report on Syracuse and agreed what they found here after a nearly 10 year investigation happens everywhere. He personally knew people who took tests for members of the basketball team, names you all would know and I will not mention. Athletes received all kinds of assistance from folks completing school work, this type of academic fraud is rampant everywhere.

In his view there is nothing the NCAA found at Syracuse that isn't happening at every other university now. His opinion is that there was something else going on here that has not been reported that motivated the NCAA to place Syracuse under the microscope, perhaps a desire to force Boehiem out for some reason.

Again, he is not a Boehiem fan but was glad to see him fire back today.
 
Here's what I don't understand; if it's your personal life story - what is there to cite to?

Maybe he referenced Wikipedia for some details! :)
 

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