Notre Dame Thoughts | Syracusefan.com

Notre Dame Thoughts

General20

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Hey, not every game can be the greatest game in the history of the Carrier Dome. Notre Dame was suppose to be a top 25 team (or at least close) coming into the season, but they proved to be disappointing even before their best player (Jerami Grant's brother) flunked out of school. This Notre Dame team seems to have most of the same elements of previous successful Notre Dame teams, a good low post scorer, a few good three point shooters, a veteran point guard, and a methodical mistake-free tempo. But they do just about everything, from defense, to rebounding, to shooting, just a little worse than they need to if they want to get a lot of wins.


How Notre Dame defended Syracuse:


Put yourself in Mike Brey's shoes. You have a single day to put together a game plan for Syracuse, and in that day you also have the sizable distraction of having to travel from Indiana to New York. The Syracuse you are familiar with is the Syracuse of MCW and Triche, Jardine and Waiters. Teams that attack the basket far more often than this years team does, and shoot far fewer jumpers. Then you watch the tape from Syracuse/Duke. You see Syracuse relentlessly attack the basket on almost every play, and do it with an amazing amount of success.


You examine your own roster and you say to yourself, Sherman and Knight are not going to get any more blocks than Jefferson and Parker did (which, incidentally, was zero) but they are a lot stronger and bulkier than Duke's front line. So you decide to play to your strength and clog the lane, hoping your muscle will keep Syracuse out of lane and prevent them from getting easy baskets.


Brey accomplished this by playing a 2-3 zone where all three front court players camped inside the lane. Now I don't want to make it seem like Brey was unaware that both Ennis and Cooney are shooting over 40% from three, because he clearly wasn't, and to stop them he told the two guards at the top of the zone to extend out to NBA range and beyond when necessary.


This left Notre Dame in a very strange configuration that at first I didn't identify as a 2-3. Usually one guard would extend way out beyond the three point line to contest a shot, while the other guard usually stayed in a more typical 2-3 formation, but at times both guards extended out. In contrast, the three front court players never strayed from clogging the lane.


If you've paid any attention to Syracuse's defense over the last few years, you know that while Syracuse plays what is called a 2-3 zone, most of the time it actually looks like a 4-1 zone. There is a good reason for this, if you don't play this way you leave yourself vulnerable to three pointers.


In this case, the willingness of Notre Dame's guards to extend out to contest shots was not enough. A few simple ball screens was all Syracuse needed to do to get Trevor Cooney a few wide open looks - and the next thing you know, Cooney had four threes, and Notre Dame was forced to abandon their 2-3 zone in favor of man to man. By that time it was too late, and Cooney was already red hot.


Notre Dame tried to guard him with a freshman which seemed like a mistake, and sure enough Cooney managed to get open every so often, and made Notre Dame pay just about every time. It turned out to be just enough to give Syracuse the lead for the duration of the game.



How Notre Dame attacked Syracuse's zone:

Notre Dame is famous for the burn offense (named burn because they intentionally run the shot clock close to zero before shooting) which they developed the last time they lost one of their star players for the season.


The key to running a slow down offense is efficiency, and historically Notre Dame has been exceptionally efficient under Brey, and virtually turn over free for as long as Eric Atkins has been around (which I swear is so long he must be Digger Phelps grandfather).


The second key to running a slow down offense, is to be able to stop the other team on defense, or at least stop them from being as efficient as you are.


To start the game, Notre burned a lot of clock and was able to be very efficient getting the ball inside to Sherman, who hit a few really difficult hook shots against Christmas.


Notre Dame had the lead and was looking good until two things happened that completely derailed them.


First, Jerami Grant absolutely changed the game defensively.


The key was helping Christmas in the post. While Christmas fought with Sherman for position, Grant swooped in from the weak side for a couple absolutely amazing and game changing blocks.


After a hot start, Sherman did nothing on offense for the rest of the game outside of hitting some free throws late on a couple of questionable calls.


Second, Notre Dame's defense let Cooney get hot. Again, to win a slow pace game, you have to be more efficient than your opponent. Cooney's effective field goal percentage (which gives more credit to 3's than 2's because 3's are worth more points) was 103.3%. As you might imagine, its hard to beat a team when the guy who is scoring the vast majority of their points is scoring with over 100% efficiency.


By halftime Syracuse had a 13 point lead. Which is a much bigger lead than it sounds in such a slow pace game. The score was 31-18, so Syracuse was almost doubling Notre Dame's output.


To Brey's credit, he understood that Notre Dame had no chance to overcome a 13 point deficit using the burn offense, so he completely abandoned it.


Notre Dame increased the tempo and it worked for them. They did pretty much all the same things they always do, but they did them a lot faster. It allowed them to score 37 points in the second, as opposed to 18 in the first half.


The biggest difference between the first half and the second half (besides tempo) was shooting. Notre Dame was 1-6 from three in the first half, and in the second half they were 5-12. Shooting more from three was the right move for them. None of their threes were what I would call wide open, but it was clear that the focus of Syracuse's defense was to stop Sherman inside rather than to stop the shooters, and even Grant, as long as he is, can't be in both places at once.


Brey made all the right halftime adjustments and the game turned into a war of attrition – as all Syracuse's games have been lately. This one felt a little different though, because Ennis was not able to take over the game late. I don't know if he is sick, if his ankle is bothering him, or if he's exhausted (its probably a combination of all three) but he looked like he was running on empty in this game.


Fair too, had a terrible day. This happened for two reasons. One, his mid range shot simply was not falling. Two, Notre Dame was clogging the lane and not letting him anywhere near the basket. If Fair could have gotten a few mid range shots to fall, he might have loosened Notre Dame's defense up, but he couldn't do it, and as it was every time he tried to get to the basket Notre Dame was there waiting, and they did an excellent job of forcing him to take difficult (almost unmakable) shots.


Without Fair and Ennis (our usual go to options) I thought the offense looked a little lost. Obviously Cooney picked up most of the slack left by those two, but I thought Grant made arguably the two biggest baskets of the game. One, when Notre Dame cut the lead to three and seemed to have all the momentum. Grant created this shot all by himself, worming his way to the basket and forcing the ball through the hoop under duress. The next was another low post basket to push the lead from five to seven with about a minute left in the game (pretty much icing it in my opinion).



Player Evaluations:


Ennis: He just was not himself this game. His assist totals are inflated because Cooney hit everything. In reality, Ennis created very little offense. This week off should help him more than anybody else.


Cooney: I was talking before the game about the possibility of this being a trap game. My opinion was, it would not be a trap game. Although looking back I think it was. Syracuse did not seem to have much in the tank as a team. However, I did mention that Notre Dame is so bad that Syracuse probably only needs one guy to get hot to secure the win. I had no idea how right I was going to be. The first question every coach needs to ask when the play Syracuse is, how are we going to stop Cooney? You saw in this game what happens when the opposing team does not go out of their way to make Cooney's life hard. That is one of the reasons why SU won't see much zone at all this year. Probably the only team that could get away with zoning Syracuse is Syracuse.


Fair: He really needed to be able to hit a few mid range jumpers in this one, but he couldn't. It was probably Fair's first bad game of the season. He's usually good for about one a year, so he was due. I'm glad he got it out of the way against Notre Dame.



Grant: He seemed to shy away from contact offensively until the very end when we needed it most. I remember seeing Warrick do the same thing his sophomore year during back to back games. My opinion is, it means Grant gets worn down and needs to get a little stronger. Despite all this, he was the unsung hero of the game. The one thing I most want to see from Grant is him using his athletic gifts to affect the game defensively, and in this game his defense was almost as key as Cooney's shooting.


Christmas: He had a battle underneath with Sherman (who is surprisingly good) and he fought hard. Christmas eventually fouled out, but I thought fouls 3 and 4 were bad calls, so I can't blame him for that. I wish his teammates got him the ball on offense more, because the few times Christmas got touches good things seemed to happen. The only person to get Christmas a good look down low was Cooney, and Christmas repaid the debt with two tremendous assists to Cooney that lead to 6 points. As Christmas improves, the rest of the team needs to improve at finding him in the right spots. If they would have in this game, I bet Christmas could have helped with some of the offensive woes.


Gbinije: Played good defense and made a three, then made a terrible turnover and came out of the game for good. When Cooney is playing like this, Gbinije is bound to sit the bench a lot, because even though he fills in for Ennis too, he's not a point guard.


Roberson: His talent is evident. Did anybody else notice him grab a rebound about three feet above the rim? The fact that he played against Duke leads me to believe that he had a good week of practice and is showing improvement. The jumper he hit looked pretty sweet, and I saw him hit a number of those in warm ups before the game. I expect him to continue to play small minutes with the chance for more as his play and game situations dictate.


Keita: Got in the game and played his usual good defense, but Christmas was a better match up for Notre Dames big, strong, plodding centers.
 
"Christmas: He had a battle underneath with Sherman (who is surprisingly good) and he fought hard."

my thoughts watching were that sherman was a little bit like cooney. a little early success feeds their game and makes them that much better.
 
I've liked Sherman every time I've seen him this year (which isn't a lot)..
Ohio St's only answer for him was getting a couple calls to foul him out iirc.
Connaughton too (we did a great job on him)...
I feel like that team should be better even without Grant but like you said, they do everything just not quite well enough I guess.
 
I've liked Sherman every time I've seen him this year (which isn't a lot)..
Ohio St's only answer for him was getting a couple calls to foul him out iirc.
Connaughton too (we did a great job on him)...
I feel like that team should be better even without Grant but like you said, they do everything just not quite well enough I guess.

I tend to agree with this. I think Sherman has become their go to guy in a lot of ways since Grant went down. I have not seem many Notre Dame games, but when I have seen them he has looked good.
 
Disagree with your zone comment. As the opposing team would you rather have Grant, Fair and Cooney shooting jumpers or have Grant, Fair, Christmas, and Ennis working inside?
 
Glad to see your thoughts on Rak - it's becoming obvious that he just needs more touches. He's getting better every game. And Roberson will be a player. I watched the video of JB talking to the team after the Duke game and he was clearly handing out compliments to the Roberson to keep him engaged and moving forward.

I don't think enough has been said that like us, ND played an OT game on Saturday and I'm sure that slowed them down a bit as well. We are definitely in the dog days of the season now, and I'm glad both teams were hampered by fatigue. Games like this in the past seemed like ones we would lose.
 
General, I have been watching Cuse games ever since the win over Houston's Phi-Slamma-Jamma team but unfortunately don't understand the reference to a 4-1 vs a 2-3. A few more words regarding this differentiation would be greatly appreciated.

And once again a tremendous piece of analysis and player evaluation .. I sure hope Ennis is back to full strength soon.

Finally, as always, I salute the General!
 
General, I have been watching Cuse games ever since the win over Houston's Phi-Slamma-Jamma team but unfortunately don't understand the reference to a 4-1 vs a 2-3. A few more words regarding this differentiation would be greatly appreciated.

And once again a tremendous piece of analysis and player evaluation .. I sure hope Ennis is back to full strength soon.

Finally, as always, I salute the General!

A 2-3 zone is called that because there are suppose to be two guards up top and two forwards and a center down low in the following shape:

----X-----X

X------X------X

Syracuse usually has its forwards sneak up and out towards the three point line to prevent jumpers leaving the center alone in the middle. It looks more like this:


-----------X---------X
X-----------------------------X

----------------X

EDIT: Disregard the dashes, I need to add them because the formatting on the site pushes all the X's together.
 
Sherman is one of the few if not the only traditional low post guy I have seen this year. His defense unfortunately is as bad as his offense is good. Probably why he didnt get a lot of time under izzo and transferred. Connaughton too is a good player as is atkins. They looked good when speeding up the game. I agree they should be better than 3-7. I was expecting them to get hot after the duke win.
 
Speaking of the zone general.. is it just the lack of athleticism and length or the shape of the zone that results in such poor trapping this year? We get beat off trapping frequently via ennis or cooney diving to the post leaving a shooter at the top of the key quite frequently. It just seems like either teams are playing it better or we dont have the quality of zone defenders to make it a weapon.
 
A 2-3 zone is called that because there are suppose to be two guards up top and two forwards and a center down low in the following shape:

----X-----X

X------X------X

Syracuse usually has its forwards sneak up and out towards the three point line to prevent jumpers leaving the center alone in the middle. It looks more like this:


-----------X---------X
X-----------------------------X

----------------X

EDIT: Disregard the dashes, I need to add them because the formatting on the site pushes all the X's together.

I often refer to it as a 2-2-1 as well. I'm going to steal your graphic because I'm trying to get the guys I play hoops with to adopt this against a couple teams that we have a hard time stopping and the 1-2-2 we played didn't work.
 
I often refer to it as a 2-2-1 as well. I'm going to steal your graphic because I'm trying to get the guys I play hoops with to adopt this against a couple teams that we have a hard time stopping and the 1-2-2 we played didn't work.

CFVT...Be careful, I think JB has a copyright on that D.
 
CFVT...Be careful, I think JB has a copyright on that D.

Well, I can't get the cheapskates I play with to attend JB's camp with me, so for now, I'm just going to have to pilfer and hope JB never stops in Burlington and checks out the Burlington Parks and Rec Oldies but Goodie league.
 
dash edit looks much better. previous 4-1 diagram looked more like a funnel. wings packed too tight inside.
if you could general would you care to discuss boeheim's high wing zone vs. say tark's amoeba flex defense.
both said to be zone dees based on ...(cue raff) man to man principles.
 
Roberson: His talent is evident. Did anybody else notice him grab a rebound about three feet above the rim? The fact that he played against Duke leads me to believe that he had a good week of practice and is showing improvement. The jumper he hit looked pretty sweet, and I saw him hit a number of those in warm ups before the game. I expect him to continue to play small minutes with the chance for more as his play and game situations dictate.

Roberson is the most intriguing player on this roster right now, IMO. We know what we have in Fair/Cooney/Grant/Keita/Gbinije/Ennis and we're beginning to get more consistency from Christmas, who has upside as well, albeit with a ceiling that is a little lower for this year (i.e. I don't think he's suddenly going to start getting significantly more touches offensively, and turn into a 9-10 ppg scorer this year).

But Roberson could quietly become a key part of this rotation. When you get minutes against Duke and ND (which was obviously a very close game) and you handle them well, you win a bit more trust from JB. I still think we'll see the big four hogging most of those minutes up front in close games, but Roberson could be a valuable 5-6 mpg guy on a regular basis to give a quick breather to CJ/Grant. We're not there yet, but we could be.
 
Glad to see your thoughts on Rak - it's becoming obvious that he just needs more touches. He's getting better every game. And Roberson will be a player. I watched the video of JB talking to the team after the Duke game and he was clearly handing out compliments to the Roberson to keep him engaged and moving forward.

I don't think enough has been said that like us, ND played an OT game on Saturday and I'm sure that slowed them down a bit as well. We are definitely in the dog days of the season now, and I'm glad both teams were hampered by fatigue. Games like this in the past seemed like ones we would lose.

Where was the video of JB talking to the team? Somehow I missed it, and I would love to see it. Somehow, I have trouble imagining him in the locker room with the guys.
 
I think we would have easily won in double digits if Fair and Grant had been well rested. If we were playing them Sunday, we pound them IMHO. I left the Dome at the same time as Grant and his family and he was iced up and sore and walking slowly. Neither he nor Fair were themselves after the draining game both physically and mentally on Saturday.
 
dash edit looks much better. previous 4-1 diagram looked more like a funnel. wings packed too tight inside.
if you could general would you care to discuss boeheim's high wing zone vs. say tark's amoeba flex defense.
both said to be zone dees based on ...(cue raff) man to man principles.

I wish I could, but I don't know anything about the amoeba flex defense.

I will say that one of the most useless phrases in basketball is saying a zone defense has man to man principles. Of course it has man to man principles, you are still playing defense against another player, you're not just standing in a spot ignoring the offense. Its nothing that ever needs to be mentioned because it adds no valuable information.

That said, there is a big difference between a match up zone which really looks a lot more like man, and what Syracuse does, which is more of a traditional zone defense.
 
Speaking of the zone general.. is it just the lack of athleticism and length or the shape of the zone that results in such poor trapping this year? We get beat off trapping frequently via ennis or cooney diving to the post leaving a shooter at the top of the key quite frequently. It just seems like either teams are playing it better or we dont have the quality of zone defenders to make it a weapon.

I don't think this Syracuse team is bad at trapping from a historical standpoint. They might be quite a bit worse than last year, but last year's defense was special.
 
I wish I could, but I don't know anything about the amoeba flex defense.

I will say that one of the most useless phrases in basketball is saying a zone defense has man to man principles. Of course it has man to man principles, you are still playing defense against another player, you're not just standing in a spot ignoring the offense. Its nothing that ever needs to be mentioned because it adds no valuable information.

That said, there is a big difference between a match up zone which really looks a lot more like man, and what Syracuse does, which is more of a traditional zone defense.


How about using an old-time football term and calling it the "Umbrella" defense. It's what New York Giants coach Steve Owen called the defensive scheme he came up with those cover all the receivers the Browns had when they became one of the first teams to split a halfback out as a flanker. Kind of the equivalent of a zone team extending out to cover the three point line while keeping the "handle of the umbrella", (the center) in to cover the paint.
 
"Probably the only team that could get away with zoning Syracuse is Syracuse."

They used to say of Willie Mays after he'd hit a screaming line drive for a double or a triple, "The only man who could have caught that, hit it."
 

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