Now we know how Overseas Elite hasn’t lost

[OrlandoCuse]

They have the refs paid off. Louisiana United absolutely jobbed to end the game. One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen to give the game to OE.

I think we’ve found one of the flaws with the Elam ending.

 

[wallacecuse]

One thing about the Elam I really do not like is how if the team with the lead has the ball, they can run the possession to under 4, get fouled, the target score gets set, they make two ft's, and now they are 5 points away before the other team has had the ball. Force their hand; make them get a shot off before the clock hits 4 mins, like an end of game situation, and if they get fouled, the score gets set after they shoot their ft's, so that it's a true +7.

But the call was awful; killed a fast break game-ender.

 

[Orangezoo]

Any video posted by chance of it? I missed the game.

 

[Alsacs]

That type of call is why I like the NBA expertimenting with a coaches challenge on referee calls.
The Louisiana Utd. player got all ball on the strip and it was a transition opportunity for them to win and the ref called a foul late. They called it late 2 possessions prior even though that pushoff was atleast close.

Brutal officiating to end that good game.

 

[Orangezoo]

 

[Orangezoo]

Definitely all ball first.

 

[Eric15]

They have the refs paid off. Louisiana United absolutely jobbed to end the game. One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen to give the game to OE.

I think we’ve found one of the flaws with the Elam ending.

I watched it live. I feel like a lot of times with shocking calls like that, everyone freaks out but then you watch a reply and see the foul from a different angle, but that was truly a completely clean strip.

 

[Day2]

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see. Is there an angle where he isn't slapping the guy's arm?

 

[UnknownOrange]

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see. Is there an angle where he isn't slapping the guy's arm?

Haha thought the same thing. I was surprised they didn't call a block with the defender moving too. Good no call on that but he definitely hits his arm

 

[UnknownOrange]

Also you want to judge a slowed down version of a clip and a ref has to make that call in real time. If he technically hits the ball first AND the arm ... what's a ref going to see real-time?

 

[Orangezoo]

That is the only angle I found. The ball was loose by the time you see contact with the arm/hand. Another angle would be helpful. I also think that the combination of the fact this was at the point of the Elam ending magnifies it further.

Personally I think that if the Elam ending was a number and a clock it could really work. If you set the score to be a certain Target to be reached and that if the score is reached before time runs out then the team that hits the target wins or the team that has the most points when the clock runs out

This still generates the intent of limiting fouls because it's free points towards the target while also providing a fair shot in a game so that you don't have or heavily reduce the possibility of a scenario like this where officiating can actually end the game and choose the winner. I also think if you do this you push the target number to +10 for regular time and +5 for OT.

I think you then could use a single Elam ending overtime without the clock and allow for a straight forward equal strategy to finish it out. Make winning the tip truly important vs ceremonial.

 

[SUFan44]

The same ref called two fouls on consecutive plays to give Overseas Elite free throws in the end period.

Both plays, he was the trail ref - first one, push in the back -- looked like an OK call. Second one, there's no way he could see the guy hit him from the angle he had.

Terrible ending. Louisiana deserved to win that game. Overseas Elite is very, very beatable this year.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Elan eliminates tie games but overtimes are fun.

 

[DBCooper]

That is the only angle I found. The ball was loose by the time you see contact with the arm/hand. Another angle would be helpful. I also think that the combination of the fact this was at the point of the Elam ending magnifies it further.

Personally I think that if the Elam ending was a number and a clock it could really work. If you set the score to be a certain Target to be reached and that if the score is reached before time runs out then the team that hits the target wins or the team that has the most points when the clock runs out

This still generates the intent of limiting fouls because it's free points towards the target while also providing a fair shot in a game so that you don't have or heavily reduce the possibility of a scenario like this where officiating can actually end the game and choose the winner. I also think if you do this you push the target number to +10 for regular time and +5 for OT.

I think you then could use a single Elam ending overtime without the clock and allow for a straight forward equal strategy to finish it out. Make winning the tip truly important vs ceremonial.

Honest question. Does it matter if he hit the ball first and then the arm? If someone is going for a layup and I block the shot, but I hit his face with my hand in the follow through, I could be called for a foul. I know this is a different scenario, but it seems to me that reach in fouls are traditionally called differently than other fouls
Generally speaking, when you reach in you had better hit the ball cleanly, without hitting the arms at any point or you will be called for a foul. This seems like a classic reach in foul. People might not agree with the call, but it doesn't seem to be inconsistent with hundreds of other reach in fouls that I've seen called.

 

[Day2]

For all of the conspiracy theorists in this thread, why would TBT rig games for OE?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

For all of the conspiracy theorists in this thread, why would TBT rig games for OE?

Attention and TV ratings for the final rounds?

They've won 3 in a row and are sort of the only proven entity in the entire competition. I'm not saying that the refs are going to go out of the way to help them in the last minutes of the 2 mil championship game but helping them not get bounced early in a close game (by a team noone will have heard of that won't draw eyeballs in later rounds) makes sense.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honest question. Does it matter if he hit the ball first and then the arm? If someone is going for a layup and I block the shot, but I hit his face with my hand in the follow through, I could be called for a foul. I know this is a different scenario, but it seems to me that reach in fouls are traditionally called differently than other fouls
Generally speaking, when you reach in you had better hit the ball cleanly, without hitting the arms at any point or you will be called for a foul. This seems like a classic reach in foul. People might not agree with the call, but it doesn't seem to be inconsistent with hundreds of other reach in fouls that I've seen called.

It does. Watch every strip in slow motion at any level that occurs in the paint and 99 pct will have contact. The offensive player will move his body and arms to force contact whether intended or not. The higher the level of play the more likely contact as well due to speed of the game. If it was a foul no matter what you might as well make steals an automatic foul and take them out of the game unless they occur without a strip.

 

[DBCooper]

It does. Watch every strip in slow motion at any level that occurs in the paint and 99 pct will have contact. The offensive player will move his body and arms to force contact whether intended or not. The higher the level of play the more likely contact as well due to speed of the game. If it was a foul no matter what you might as well make steals an automatic foul and take them out of the game unless they occur without a strip.

I'm not saying that that should automatically be called a foul. I wouldn't have any issue whatsoever if no foul was called there. I don't know as that I would have called a foul. I'm saying that calling a foul on that play doesn't seem that outrageous. (Although, I will admit, there is a good chance I would be infuriated if it happened to BA - and there is some merit to the idea that in that particular situation (end of game), the ref's should not blow the whistle)

 

[Jasoncuse]

Elam is decent in theory but really takes a lot away from the endings of close games.

Sure you can have a game ending shot often, but you also get games ending with a guy hitting a FT on a bad foul call like this one.

If this ever becomes a reality in a high end basketball game (it likely won't), there has to be some changes. Ending games on FT's like this stinks. 7 points isn't very much needed to win either, especially in a close game.

 

[CusefanATL]

They have the refs paid off. Louisiana United absolutely jobbed to end the game. One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen to give the game to OE.

I think we’ve found one of the flaws with the Elam ending.

I can name a few flaws with Elam ending.

Once the equivelant of the 2 pt coversion chart comes out - its going to be a simple math game.

For instance - 70/69-65 and elam is 71 - winning team must foul. Samesies when its 70/69-68

Would rather give up 2 freebies and keep it a 2 possession or 1 possession ball game than risk a 3 while giving yourself the max possessions.

 

[CusefanATL]

at some point, i bet there will be a case to foul everything once leading team is at elam minus 3 and defense losing. Easier to let them get to 1 or 2 at the line and then condense everything on the next possessions once they only need a 2, dare them to shoot deep by sucking in the defense and playing "5 in the box" and hoping they go cold.

Or on the same token playing defense but only focusing on the 3 and overplaying everythign hoping for a steal, but not worried about an easy 2 because it wont end game. Same concept as above. just allowing for the possibility of a steal.

Its the equivalent of a prevent defense in football. Not worried about anything that wont kill you in the moment. And forces their play calling into something you ahve a bit more control over.

 

[CaptainJ]

Elam is decent in theory but really takes a lot away from the endings of close games.

Sure you can have a game ending shot often, but you also get games ending with a guy hitting a FT on a bad foul call like this one.

If this ever becomes a reality in a high end basketball game (it likely won't), there has to be some changes. Ending games on FT's like this stinks. 7 points isn't very much needed to win either, especially in a close game.

I agree, although sometimes it happens in real life too, right? In this format though, it almost feels like a cousin to a shootout in soccer or hockey, when they get tired and turn the real game off. Not exactly the same, but close enough to remind me of it. I also enjoy the theory of letting the trailing team be able to mount a comeback without fouling nor worrying about the clock and changing their quality of offensive sets. I suppose of Boeheims Army becomes the first team to come back, folks will love it. Today they showed theyre just as likely to be the first team to blow such an advantage, though.


Imagine the possible changes in the One Shining Moment video.

 

[Briancuse]

One thing about the Elam I really do not like is how if the team with the lead has the ball, they can run the possession to under 4, get fouled, the target score gets set, they make two ft's, and now they are 5 points away before the other team has had the ball. Force their hand; make them get a shot off before the clock hits 4 mins, like an end of game situation, and if they get fouled, the score gets set after they shoot their ft's, so that it's a true +7.

But the call was awful; killed a fast break game-ender.

The whole Elam thing is stupid. Play a normal bball game.