Offense Statement/Questions

[phil77]

There are three things I thought I would see more this season than years past...

1- Transition Offense. We are athletic all over the place now. We have players who want to run and get out on the break. I thought I would see the offense be more wide open and I thought we would have no problem scoring points because of this. Are the coaches responsible for holding this team back on the break? Seems the team is coached to get the ball quickly to the guards but the guards never push the pace...Why? Coaching? Comfort? Seems like we would fair better in a wide open game.

2- Dribble Penetration. I thought the drive and kick game would be more open this year. I have noticed that when our guards especially Joseph come off the double screen they never turn the corner and attack the paint. Instead they flatten out and wait for weak side action or a dump into the post. Why do the double screen if you are not going to let the guards turn the corner and put pressure on the defense. Again do they flatten out by design? Is that the players doing it or the coaches? Seems Joseph isn't even looking to get into the paint which is where I thought he would excel at.

3- Post/Kick- Out. I thought we would see Rak with more touches in the post and in college defenders have a tend to either double or turn their heads and watch. I was correct about the touches Rak received but I have been incorrect about his willingness to kick the ball out. In the St Johns game I saw a number of times Rak got the ball and had two or three people around him and he forced up a shot instead of simply turning and finding an open shooter. I believe Cooney was missed 2-3 times like this. While he is doing a good job scoring Rak can look to get others involved now after his early season post success. The defense will start dropping on him now.


These are the things I have been looking for early in the season and thought with this specific group of players I thought I would see more of certain things...

Also when is the last time JB threw a press at someone? I thought we might see some of that this year to speed up the tempo. We don't have Ennis here so every possession will not be good we need to speed up the game and get more possessions.

 

[jordoo]

1. This is a good question. Some of it is defenses knowing we struggle in the half court and scheming to get back or offer token pressure to slow and confuse our young and or not very good ball handlers. Some of it is inexperienced/not very good ball handlers being too cautious or simply not recognizing good situations to attack. I agree figuring out a way to run more would help our offense a lot and probably get Joseph involved with something that is easier for him to be successful at.

2. This is something that confuses me with Joseph specifically. Not that he flattens and tosses to the post, that is designed because Rak and Chris are our best half court options, but when we don't have that Joseph doesn't look to drive more. In preseason he showed a nice pull-up, a floater and some ability to get all the way to the rim. I suspect he is very focused on trying to make the right play rather than just making a play that is available and he is capable of. MikeG is a better driver off a catch and go playing off the ball than setting things up. Cooney struggles to drive IMO.

3. Rak has never been the focus but he has definitely struggled with passing out of the post when he should and where he should. However when he has we have mostly missed the jumper rather than make it an encourage him to do it more.

As long as I have been watching JB has really only pressed limitedly in preseason to practice, when we are down really big and he's trying to change the pace or when we are down enough late in the game and need to steal a possession or two. Its not his thing and he often states we aren't very good at it and would need to spend more practice time on it to be good.

 

[RF2044]

In my mind, #1 and #2 have similar answers--Joseph is not doing some of the things he will later in his career that will help this team generate easier scoring opportunities--both in transition and in our half court sets. He'll improve, though--love this kid's potential. He just isn't "there" yet.

#2 will also improve as a function of Gbinije / Cooney getting into the lane more, and to a lesser extent, Patterson if he continues to get PT. This is starting to happen more with all three players.

Bottom line: it appears as though we aren't going to rely upon playmaking from a traditional PG the way that we do most years. The good news is that we have a group of players who can all facilitate a little bit, and good interior passing from both Rak and McCullough. It will be all hands on deck to work through the offensive issues--because this is a collective problem.

 

[ebucklewis]

re: pressing
JB isn't going to press with just one center. Last year he could afford it with BMK who was pretty good at defending the rim in a press.
We usually don't have the type of players that are good to press with. an effective press also needs a waterbug or two - and we don't have any.

 

[pearl31]

re: pressing
JB isn't going to press with just one center. Last year he could afford it with BMK who was pretty good at defending the rim in a press.
We usually don't have the type of players that are good to press with. an effective press also needs a waterbug or two - and we don't have any.

maybe we could use Chino for that now?

 

[MCC]

2. This is something that confuses me with Joseph specifically. Not that he flattens and tosses to the post, that is designed because Rak and Chris are our best half court options, but when we don't have that Joseph doesn't look to drive more. In preseason he showed a nice pull-up, a floater and some ability to get all the way to the rim. I suspect he is very focused on trying to make the right play rather than just making a play that is available and he is capable of. MikeG is a better driver off a catch and go playing off the ball than setting things up. Cooney struggles to drive IMO.

Just MO, but Cooney doesn't struggle to drive - he (1) doesn't decide to drive quickly enough when given space and (2) is tentative at the rim. He's a big (for college), strong (for college) guard. He can dunk easily. I'd like to see him try to get all the way to the rim and draw fouls rather than perform the strange sideways-hopping, two-handed psuedolayup that we often see. He's an excellent FT shooter and - while I'm sure he realizes that 2 at the line are just as good as a layup - I suspect he isn't making the snap decision to get all the way to the tin, try to finish with some authority and/or draw the foul.

 

[jordoo]

Just MO, but Cooney doesn't struggle to drive - he (1) doesn't decide to drive quickly enough when given space and (2) is tentative at the rim. He's a big (for college), strong (for college) guard. He can dunk easily. I'd like to see him try to get all the way to the rim and draw fouls rather than perform the strange sideways-hopping, two-handed psuedolayup that we often see. He's an excellent FT shooter and - while I'm sure he realizes that 2 at the line are just as good as a layup - I suspect he isn't making the snap decision to get all the way to the tin, try to finish with some authority and/or draw the foul.

Which is why he isn't very good at it. I see the same things you do but being good at driving is as much about the ability as the timing. The other thing is just being able to fake guys with hesitation, change of speed, direction and burst. Guys like BillyE and Ennis weren't the fastest but they simply knew how to set up defenders and get by. Cooney doesn't know how to do this so for him its making the decision to go as soon as he has the opening and you're right he generally waits to think about it. I also agree he should just elevate and try to dunk, make the defender foul him out get out of the way.

 

[MCC]

Which is why he isn't very good at it. I see the same things you do but being good at driving is as much about the ability as the timing. The other thing is just being able to fake guys with hesitation, change of speed, direction and burst. Guys like BillyE and Ennis weren't the fastest but they simply knew how to set up defenders and get by. Cooney doesn't know how to do this so for him its making the decision to go as soon as he has the opening and you're right he generally waits to think about it. I also agree he should just elevate and try to dunk, make the defender foul him out get out of the way.

Yup, all fair and consistent with my thinking. Guess we just differed on semantics. I really don't understand why he doesn't try to dunk if he gets close enough.

 

[Coach Orange]

2- Dribble Penetration. I thought the drive and kick game would be more open this year. I have noticed that when our guards especially Joseph come off the double screen they never turn the corner and attack the paint. Instead they flatten out and wait for weak side action or a dump into the post. Why do the double screen if you are not going to let the guards turn the corner and put pressure on the defense. Again do they flatten out by design? Is that the players doing it or the coaches? Seems Joseph isn't even looking to get into the paint which is where I thought he would excel at.

This is by design. The play you reference is demonstrated on Coach Boeheim's Transition and Early Offense DVD. It is the "Double Fist" play we have run for several years now. It is designed to get our best shooter a three-point look or a post-up opportunity for our best big. The point guard is instructed to flatten the play out to drag the defender in order to allow the action to occur opposite.

I'm not saying that I love the design, but that is the answer to the question.

 

[phil77]

This is by design. The play you reference is demonstrated on Coach Boeheim's Transition and Early Offense DVD. It is the "Double Fist" play we have run for several years now. It is designed to get our best shooter a three-point look or a post-up opportunity for our best big. The point guard is instructed to flatten the play out to drag the defender in order to allow the action to occur opposite.

I'm not saying that I love the design, but that is the answer to the question.

I figured it was by design but sometimes I see a wide open lane for Joseph or whoever and they just kind of dribble away from that. In that play I would imagine if you saw a wide open lane to rim you should have freedom to take that lane? As a PG that would be my first option to look at? My thought process wouldn't be well there is a wide open lane for me to drive I am going to sort of dribble off to the left and wait to see if this screen opens Cooney up. I think that is what the defense is expecting and a could counter to the screen on the weak side would be a quick drive by the PG. Just frustrating to see an open lane then see our PG not attack it.

 

[Coach Orange]

I figured it was by design but sometimes I see a wide open lane for Joseph or whoever and they just kind of dribble away from that. In that play I would imagine if you saw a wide open lane to rim you should have freedom to take that lane? As a PG that would be my first option to look at? My thought process wouldn't be well there is a wide open lane for me to drive I am going to sort of dribble off to the left and wait to see if this screen opens Cooney up. I think that is what the defense is expecting and a could counter to the screen on the weak side would be a quick drive by the PG. Just frustrating to see an open lane then see our PG not attack it.

I feel your frustration. Two points:

• One of the downsides of running set plays as compared to motion offense is that players, especially young ones, run the play "as scripted," often missing playmaking opportunities because they are so worried about completing their responsibilities. This leads to "going through the motions" mechanically rather than seeing and exploiting what the defense gives.
• I don't know the answer to this, but perhaps Joseph hasn't been given that freedom by Coach Boeheim. Coach likes to control everything that happens on the floor, including who is taking what shots. When he calls plays, JB often has a rule: only the player that the play is designed for can shoot a shot that isn't a layup. Perhaps he hasn't given Joseph the freedom to freelance off of the design and create a different shot.

 

[jordoo]

I feel your frustration. Two points:

• One of the downsides of running set plays as compared to motion offense is that players, especially young ones, run the play "as scripted," often missing playmaking opportunities because they are so worried about completing their responsibilities. This leads to "going through the motions" mechanically rather than seeing and exploiting what the defense gives.
• I don't know the answer to this, but perhaps Joseph hasn't been given that freedom by Coach Boeheim. Coach likes to control everything that happens on the floor, including who is taking what shots. When he calls plays, JB often has a rule: only the player that the play is designed for can shoot a shot that isn't a layup. Perhaps he hasn't given Joseph the freedom to freelance off of the design and create a different shot.

I'd be surprised if Joseph is being handcuffed that much by JB. I would guess its more of a handcuffing himself kind of thing because everything is new and he's kind of overloaded with information right now. JB has usually run a pretty free flowing offense when I have watched over the years. Yes there are plays and those plays have options or variations but in general with JB they are designed to get the ball into the hands of guys who can make plays and let them to just that. This year looks a lot different because our main scorers need the ball on the block or in the mid-post and our PG is a scoring guard trying very hard to be a PG. I think he needs to play more to his strengths and let the PG aspect come to him. The game I see him running a set play where he is trying to feed Rak but the defense is overplaying that, giving him a lane and he takes it for an easy lay up or dump off will be a great day. Joseph looks like he is thinking all time to me not playing.

Obviously we aren't privy to exactly what instructions JB is giving Kaleb or how he is interpreting them but it seems that taking the opening provided by the defense is preferable to forcing it into something the defense is setting up to defend.