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Message: [QUOTE="TheCusian, post: 3907714, member: 2585"] Are you of the mind that all .500 coaches deserve to be fired regardless of the the circumstances of their employment? Have their been .500 coaches who've been fired unfairly due to fans and boosters applying a simple pass/fail to their judgements? The framework of "excuses" implies that there is an attempt to skirt accountability. That is not my position. I'd prefer to look at all of the data, reasons, and intangibles (leadership, university spokesperson, etc) fairly. I think good AD's do this unless they get pressured by fans/boosters to apply a different metric (this often results in black and white thinking and blind talk of "excuses" and "holding people accountable"). Fans who rely on the term "excuses" feel to me to be lazy in their analysis. "I don't want to deal with the reasons, I just want to win baby" ... and then the new coach walks into the same set of circumstances held to the same bar by people who don't understand the job's structural weaknesses and things outside of the coaches purview (like pandemics, or NIL, or money for staff, facility improvements, etc.) Alright, quick rundown of your reasons/excuses: I'm not going to separate them like you did, as I think they should be taken together. It wasn't just COVID and new coordinators and injuries, it was no camp due to COVID to install systems with new coordinators and injuries and opt outs requiring things to be installed against conference opponents rather than a soft OOC. I'm very open to holding Babers accountable for needed to replace both coordinators. It was a bold move. I think it shows that things were not healthy (to your point) and that he had the guts to try to fix it. I don't think he thought it would be combined with a global pandemic and no camp, limited practices. Your last 2 paragraphs are interesting. I did some editing: "At the end of the day, a one-off trainwreck of a season can be excused if the rest of the tenure had been successful. [COLOR=rgb(243, 121, 52)]Success based on what metric? I thought beating a ranked team in year one was good. Beating #2 Clemson in year 3, better. A 10 win season, beating two ranked teams, taking Clemson to the final drive? Amazing. Room for growth, but a steady progression. 2019 is a black mark on his [/COLOR][COLOR=#f37934]time here.[/COLOR] However, the "reasons" for four losing seasons in five years start to sound a lot like excuses. [COLOR=#f37934]Using one simple metric, combined with calling things excuses. [/COLOR] Still, it's all irrelevant in the short term. [COLOR=#f37934]Good. Big picture leads to a more exhaustive look at his time here.[/COLOR] Last year (and the reasons/excuses) is behind us, Dino is still here, he has shown that he CAN win big at least once [COLOR=rgb(243, 121, 52)](Again, using record as the sole definition of success)[/COLOR], so now we have to move on and hope that the tweaks/recruits and whatever else is being done can get us back to a season that we can all agree on as successful. [COLOR=rgb(243, 121, 52)]I don't think we'll all agree on that.[/COLOR] We all want that, we are all Orange, we all support the team, and we all want a winning SU regardless of how we individually view the reasons/excuses for our inability to have done that on a consistent basis during the Babers tenure. [COLOR=#f37934]This stuff is tricky. I get that we want to break it down on wins and losses, but if we're serious about the programs health - the reasons should be examined regardless of the result. I'd guess that this is how Clemson built what they've built. [/COLOR] Let's start to turn it all around vs. Ohio! [COLOR=rgb(243, 121, 52)]Yes, go orange![/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

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