Class of 2022 - OL Joe Cruz (NY) SIGNED NLI TO SYRACUSE (12/15/2021) | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2022 OL Joe Cruz (NY) SIGNED NLI TO SYRACUSE (12/15/2021)

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Cruz is not a B lister. Staff likes him more than other lineman originally offered. Its a longer process when they evaluate NYS prospects. They saw his juinor film and wanted to see him live. They pushed for a commitment immediately after. Watch this whole game. He has the size and athelticism that I see in other 4 star lineman film. If he was playing in a state like FL or CA he would have multiple P5 offers.

 
money3189 said:
Cruz is not a B lister. Staff likes him more than other lineman originally offered. Its a longer process when they evaluate NYS prospects. They saw his juinor film and wanted to see him live. They pushed for a commitment immediately after. Watch this whole game. He has the size and athelticism that I see in other 4 star lineman film. If he was playing in a state like FL or CA he would have multiple P5 offers.

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It's interesting dynamics at play with star watchers vs film watchers. We've had obviously limited 4 star recruits that people go crazy for vs obvious film talent (from hard to gauge ares competition wise mainly) that look much better from those on the board that have ever coached or played.

Suffice to say I much appreciate your insight vs the arm chair QBs on this board and the star websites and thank you for that.
 
ImperialOrange said:
It's interesting dynamics at play with star watchers vs film watchers. We've had obviously limited 4 star recruits that people go crazy for vs obvious film talent (from hard to gauge ares competition wise mainly) that look much better from those on the board that have ever coached or played.

Suffice to say I much appreciate your insight vs the arm chair QBs on this board and the star websites and thank you for that.
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We havent been good for awhile and its frustrating for a lot of people. They just want to see the team win again. Scanning through recruiting rankings is the easiest way to determine if we are improving or not. They dont want to do the research on the kid and I get it. Especially if you dont have time or dont know what to look for when evaluating a commit. For starters, you have to look at their physical atttibutes and see how they would fit into SU schemes. Now it doesnt mean Cruz is going to be a 3 year starter and all acc lineman but being a 4 star with multiple p5 offers doesnt either.
 
money3189 said:
We havent been good for awhile and its frustrating for a lot of people. They just want to see the team win again. Scanning through recruiting rankings is the easiest way to determine if we are improving or not. They dont want to do the research on the kid and I get it. Especially if you dont have time or dont know what to look for when evaluating a commit. For starters, you have to look at their physical atttibutes and see how they would fit into SU schemes. Now it doesnt mean Cruz is going to be a 3 year starter and all acc lineman but being a 4 star with multiple p5 offers doesnt either.
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There's a fair amount of folks that have never put on a helmet and shoulder pads that wax philosophic but until you've been hit in the chest by the absolute force some players can deliver they'd truly have no clue.

I could get my bench to 300+ , get to 6'3 250 like a standard DE and players like Joe Cruz would still absolutely chuck me and probably hurt me first time I'd try and bull rush them. Most don't realize how much force is behind 6'6 and 300 which he'll likely play at... It's a car crash especially at D1 level where both parties involved aren't used to losing at them.
 
ImperialOrange said:
There's a fair amount of folks that have never put on a helmet and shoulder pads that wax philosophic but until you've been hit in the chest by the absolute force some players can deliver they'd truly have no clue.

I could get my bench to 300+ , get to 6'3 250 like a standard DE and players like Joe Cruz would still absolutely chuck me and probably hurt me first time I'd try and bull rush them. Most don't realize how much force is behind 6'6 and 300 which he'll likely play at... It's a car crash especially at D1 level where both parties involved aren't used to losing at them.
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Yup and that’s when the real players are determined. It’s easy to beat guys that you are bigger and stronger than. What’s gonna happen when you get to college and the guy standing in front of you don’t care who your are, he’s not afraid of you and is just as big or bigger? A lot of high ranked kids don’t respond well to that.
 
tep624 said:
The ironic thing is that in my original post I never said we shouldn’t recruit sleepers or developmental prospects. My concern was more as to directionally where is this class going?

Here’s the deal - if we don’t start having classes where year, year out we are bringing in minimum 4-6 recruits that are ready to impact the 2 deep and/or start based on talent and physical readiness, and not because we have no one else, then we will never be regularly competitive in the ACC.

We had momentum with the 2019 class and then the 5-7 season just killed us.
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This is a weird year to be complaining about the class. Literally all but our last two commitments have other P5 offers. It's not like we're only beating out G5 schools for the kids we're landing.

Especially in a year where recruiting/evaluation/camps literally weren't possible.
 
Symphony Steve said:
I honestly don't see how you can criticize someone for not drinking the Kool-Aid.

In no way being critical of Cruz, but it looks like we're closing on the best people who are willing to sign with us. For the most part, they're not highly-regarded recruits, and other schools at our level aren't beating down the doors for them.

I've been through enough 'I trust the coaches' threads over the years here. The successful coaches ultimately warranted them, the unsuccessful coaches didn't.

I trust that the coaches are doing the best they can. Obviously. But we're not dealing from a position of strength with prospective recruits. Might as well accept the likelihood that we're gonna need some lightly-recruited kids to outperform their offers in order for Coach B to be successful. And it's not like he has all the time in the world to do that.

Trying to inject a dose of reality is not the same as being negative.
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But it isn't "reality" -- it's a subjective opinion that comes across as unduly pessimistic based upon how the class is shaping up.

And it certainly wasn't warranted as a reaction to Cruz being recruited / committing. Don't take my word for it -- I invite anyone who is unconvinced to read what Sutomact and Money3189, two of the most knowledgeable posters on this forum with respect to high school football recruits, have to say about Cruz and his potential.

Now, if people want to gripe about:
  • The class being heavily imbalanced at this point toward defense
  • It's unclear which direction we'll go at QB after Belin selected Duke
  • The recent WR commit seeming like a reach, despite his athletic attributes and track speed
...they'll get no argument from me on any of the above. At no point in any post I've made did I tell anyone to blindly trust the coaching staff -- there was ZERO kool-aid being peddled from me.

But all of the hysteria about the class is overblown. The players we've landed to date have P5 offers, many of them impressive lists of high major programs. Cruz does not at this point, today -- but there are reasons for that, which have been repeatedly elucidated in this thread. And the offers he has today could look completely different if other schools toss their hat into the ring when they see him finally play this fall, which is what I'd expect. When the dust settles, I'm certain that he'll be at minimum a high 3-star with numerous P% offers, which should quell concerns on both fronts.
 
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RF2044 said:
But it isn't "reality" -- it's a subjective opinion that comes across as unduly pessimistic based upon how the class is shaping up.

And it certainly wasn't warranted as a reaction to Cruz being recruited / committing. Don't take my word for it -- I invite anyone who is unconvinced to read what Sutomact and Money3189, two of the most knowledgeable posters on this forum, have to say about Cruz and his potential.

Now, if people want to make arguments that:
  • The class is heavily imbalanced at this point toward defense
  • It's unclear which direction we'll go at QB after Belin selected Duke
  • That the recent WR commit seems like a reach, despite his athletic attributes and track speed
...they'll get no argument from me. At no point in any post I've made did I tell anyone to blindly trust the coaching staff -- there was ZERO kool-aid being peddled from me.

But all of the hysteria about the class is overblown. The players we've landed to date have P5 offers, many of them impressive lists of high major programs. Cruz does not -- but there are reasons for that, which have been repeatedly elucidated in this thread. When the dust settles, I'm certain that he'll be at minimum a high 3-star, which should quiet some of the concerns.
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Hysteria. That’s classic. Good grief.
 
RF2044 said:
Good grief?

I guess you missed all of the temper tantrum posts about Cruz / Osman, that were subsequently deleted when the database updated over the weekend.

"Hysteria" is being kind.
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I thought you were talking about the discussion in this thread now. :)
 
RF2044 said:
But it isn't "reality" -- it's a subjective opinion that comes across as unduly pessimistic based upon how the class is shaping up.

And it certainly wasn't warranted as a reaction to Cruz being recruited / committing. Don't take my word for it -- I invite anyone who is unconvinced to read what Sutomact and Money3189, two of the most knowledgeable posters on this forum with respect to high school football recruits, have to say about Cruz and his potential.

Now, if people want to gripe about:
  • The class being heavily imbalanced at this point toward defense
  • It's unclear which direction we'll go at QB after Belin selected Duke
  • The recent WR commit seeming like a reach, despite his athletic attributes and track speed
...they'll get no argument from me on any of the above. At no point in any post I've made did I tell anyone to blindly trust the coaching staff -- there was ZERO kool-aid being peddled from me.

But all of the hysteria about the class is overblown. The players we've landed to date have P5 offers, many of them impressive lists of high major programs. Cruz does not at this point, today -- but there are reasons for that, which have been repeatedly elucidated in this thread. And the offers he has today could look completely different if other schools toss their hat into the ring when they see him finally play this fall, which is what I'd expect. When the dust settles, I'm certain that he'll be at minimum a high 3-star with numerous P% offers, which should quell concerns on both fronts.
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In addition, the same people who complain about a kid like Cruz and people have been complaining for years about kids like this as they are lightly recruited with no P5 Offers etc will start panicking that we wont keep him if and when he continues to get additional offers from more typical peer programs. Happens all the time.

In addition, I don't ever remember a time where Syracuse football did not take a few real developmental type prospects at the OL/DL spots. They just have too, tough position to recruit
 
money3189 said:
Cruz is not a B lister. Staff likes him more than other lineman originally offered. Its a longer process when they evaluate NYS prospects. They saw his juinor film and wanted to see him live. They pushed for a commitment immediately after. Watch this whole game. He has the size and athelticism that I see in other 4 star lineman film. If he was playing in a state like FL or CA he would have multiple P5 offers.

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Money thank you. Keep posting
 
In a weak moment I was poo poo ing this. I’m all in now. Jose Cruz
 
money3189 said:
lol I was too until I learned more about him
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Most casual fans aren't coaches, film junkies or probably have even played the game so that's why I understand the negativity when we go from landing kids that are offered by multiple P5's and recognizable on recruiting sites to landing kids as the class progresses that aren't. And we had offered and had visit other prospects at the same position that fit the profile of the heavier recruited defensive recruits we've landed - so that didn't help.

That the staff grades him as a better prospect and better than others we had visit that committed to other P5's - that definitely puts some additional color into the conversation than film highlights and who offered him.

I think the largest issue the program is dealing with right now is having a season like 2018 that showed what this program is capable of and was on par with our teams of the late 80's and 90's, and then regressing to 5-7 and 1-10. People are frustrated and impatient, and I understand it. Doesn't mean I condone the off the cuff responses we were seeing here in response to the recent commits/interest but I understand it.
 
tep624 said:
Most casual fans aren't coaches, film junkies or probably have even played the game so that's why I understand the negativity when we go from landing kids that are offered by multiple P5's and recognizable on recruiting sites to landing kids as the class progresses that aren't. And we had offered and had visit other prospects at the same position that fit the profile of the heavier recruited defensive recruits we've landed - so that didn't help.

That the staff grades him as a better prospect and better than others we had visit that committed to other P5's - that definitely puts some additional color into the conversation than film highlights and who offered him.

I think the largest issue the program is dealing with right now is having a season like 2018 that showed what this program is capable of and was on par with our teams of the late 80's and 90's, and then regressing to 5-7 and 1-10. People are frustrated and impatient, and I understand it. Doesn't mean I condone the off the cuff responses we were seeing here in response to the recent commits/interest but I understand it.
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Right on. People are going to be frustrated because of the losing drought. Big offers and stars is what gives people hope. They have to realize its a combination of both. Syracuse has never had history of recruiting high profile offensive lineman. The freeze option didnt recquire stud lineman. A guy I played against in HS was a TE that wasnt highly recruited. SU made him a O lineman and he became a multi year starter. Made the NFL. There O lines were built with guys like that.
 
money3189 said:
Right on. People are going to be frustrated because of the losing drought. Big offers and stars is what gives people hope. They have to realize its a combination of both. Syracuse has never had history of recruiting high profile offensive lineman. The freeze option didnt recquire stud lineman. A guy I played against in HS was a TE that wasnt highly recruited. SU made him a O lineman and he became a multi year starter. Made the NFL. There O lines were built with guys like that.
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