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Message: [QUOTE="sufandu, post: 2895175, member: 874"] I don't know, but nobody questioned that MJ was THE best offensive player and one of the best defensive players of his generation even prior to Phil. Brady is a sure fire HOFer but never had a thing to do with any of the great Belichik defenses that he designs specifically for individual teams in individual games. Belichik became a better coach after his Cleveland stint and is credited with designing legendary superbowl winning defenses as a d coordinator long before Brady. He has also been the mastermind of managing the personnel of patriots. How many superbowls has Brady won without Belichik? I'm confident you could take other elite qb's and give them to Belichik during the same time span and they still win those superbowls. Switch Peyton Manning for Brady and do you think they win less or that the Colts win more? I think it's the same. [/QUOTE]