OT: Steve Lavin starting to get heat for St. John’s struggles

[Whitey23]

Hype has turned into hot air. St. John’s NCAA Tournament hopes almost certainly hinge on a miraculous week at the Garden in March. The NIT isn’t even a given.

St. John’s, with its one win over a major-conference opponent in nine tries and zero Big East victories in the watered-down league, was supposed to challenge for a league title, compete with the likes of Villanova and Creighton.

Instead, this season has felt like a winter from the underwhelming Norm Roberts era — similar results except with far more talent in a significantly weaker league.

The roster is flooded with top 50-100 talent, players Steve Lavin received credit for landing. Some are beginning to question whether he’s the right man to lead the program into the future.

“The team is not living up to its expectations, and the talent seems better than its been in 10 years,” a source with ties to the program said. “To me, at the end of the day, accountability always falls on senior management, or in this case the coaching staff.”

http://nypost.com/2014/01/21/coach-starting-to-get-heat-for-red-storms-struggles/

 

[Orange87]

It's about time.

Lavin has been treated with kid gloves by the New York media since he got to St. John's. He gets credit for taking SJU to the NCAAs in his first year after they hadn't been there for 8 years. What nobody ever brings up though is that those kids on that team were previous coach Norm Roberts' kids. The roster for Lavin's first year had 10 seniors on it. 10. Roberts recruited the whole roster. That team would've made the tourney with or without Lavin.

The proof of that is that Lavin has done nothing since. He gets credit for raising the recruiting bar by getting higher rated players but what does that mean if it doesn't translate into wins?

I get that he was sick last year so I'll give him a pass on that, but his career record - including his years at UCLA - just shows a mediocre coach. He got the UCLA job by default after two other assistants with more experience had already left after Harrick was fired and Lavin inherited a championship team. Recruiting took care of itself for a few years because of that and the talent couldn't help but win games.

His first 5 years at UCLA his record was 114-41 (71%). His last 2 years: 31-31. His first year at St. John's - again with Roberts' upperclassmen - he was 21-12. Since then: 40-43.

I've always thought St. John's let Roberts go too soon. The guy finally had the program on the brink of becoming relevant again and then they dumped him in favor of Lavinwood all the glitz and image he came with.

 

[Marsh01]

It's about time.

Lavin has been treated with kid gloves by the New York media since he got to St. John's. He gets credit for taking SJU to the NCAAs in his first year after they hadn't been there for 8 years. What nobody ever brings up though is that those kids on that team were previous coach Norm Roberts' kids. The roster for Lavin's first year had 10 seniors on it. 10. Roberts recruited the whole roster. That team would've made the tourney with or without Lavin.

The proof of that is that Lavin has done nothing since. He gets credit for raising the recruiting bar by getting higher rated players but what does that mean if it doesn't translate into wins?

I get that he was sick last year so I'll give him a pass on that, but his career record - including his years at UCLA - just shows a mediocre coach. He got the UCLA job by default after two other assistants with more experience had already left after Harrick was fired and Lavin inherited a championship team. Recruiting took care of itself for a few years because of that and the talent couldn't help but win games.

His first 5 years at UCLA his record was 114-41 (71%). His last 2 years: 31-31. His first year at St. John's - again with Roberts' upperclassmen - he was 21-12. Since then: 40-43.

I've always thought St. John's let Roberts go too soon. The guy finally had the program on the brink of becoming relevant again and then they dumped him in favor of Lavinwood all the glitz and image he came with.

I agree. He needs to go back into broadcasting where he was a much better commentator than a coach. Same goes for Mark Gottfried at NIT State

 

[cusetown1]

They need to bring back Norm Roberts.

 

[orange79]

It's about time.

Lavin has been treated with kid gloves by the New York media since he got to St. John's. He gets credit for taking SJU to the NCAAs in his first year after they hadn't been there for 8 years. What nobody ever brings up though is that those kids on that team were previous coach Norm Roberts' kids. The roster for Lavin's first year had 10 seniors on it. 10. Roberts recruited the whole roster. That team would've made the tourney with or without Lavin.

To be fair, Robert didn't make a single NCAA appearance. Gotta give Lavin credit for doing that.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I agree. He needs to go back into broadcasting where he was a much better commentator than a coach. Same goes for Mark Gottfried at NIT State

I think of Lavin as more of a snake oil salesman. He sure can talk and be convincing but... Boeheim would have that roster routing teams.

 

[Orange87]

To be fair, Robert didn't make a single NCAA appearance. Gotta give Lavin credit for doing that.

If you insist, but that's kind of weak.

Roberts took over a team that went 6-21 the year before he got there. His 6th and final year he won 17 games and made the NIT. Then Lavin took that same team (again, with all of Roberts players), won 21 games and lost in the 1st round of the NCAAs. I think Roberts could've at least done that.

 

[orange79]

If you insist, but that's kind of weak.

Roberts took over a team that went 6-21 the year before he got there. His 6th and final year he won 17 games and made the NIT. Then Lavin took that same team (again, with all of Roberts players), won 21 games and lost in the 1st round of the NCAAs. I think Roberts could've at least done that.

But we'll never know. Why couldn't he get it done with the same players? I know they're younger, etc. My only point was that you have to give credit to Lavin if he took the same players Roberts had and made the NCAA. That's all. Not weak at all. Just fair.

 

[Orange87]

Roberts inherited a much worse roster than Lavin did, so lets acknowledge that.

As to the NCAA thing, Roberts last 3 years with that roster brought him 11, 16 & 17 wins respectively. If you can accept that the team would continue its upward progression, then 21 wins with Roberts as coach the next season with the same roster is certainly within reason.

Lavin took those same players with, as you said, another year of experience and off-season conditioning, practice, etc. and just did what one could assume Roberts would've done anyway.

Did Roberts get them to the NCAAs? No. Did Lavin? Yes.

If that's your bottom line then sure I'll give Lavin credit, but I think you're discounting some significant extenuating circumstances.

 

[Col. Bleep]

It's about time.

Lavin has been treated with kid gloves by the New York media since he got to St. John's... ".

Wait a minute.
You've got to give him credit where credit is due.
.

Hottest coach's wife east of Andy Enfield.
And he finally got Gene Keady to drop the Keady-do Combover.

 

[Orange87]

Hottest coach's wife east of Andy Enfield.
And he finally got Gene Keady to drop the Keady-do Combover.

Both excellent points.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree. He needs to go back into broadcasting where he was a much better commentator than a coach. Same goes for Mark Gottfried at NIT State

That voice, though. No thanks.

Maybe he should just write about basketball instead.

 

[PeteCalvin]

They need to bring back Norm Roberts.

Actually, I'd like to see what Ed Cooley could do with SJU. If he can get talented kids to Providence, he could clean up in the city.

 

[2-3zone]

Their season went downhill when they lost to SU, I felt they put so much into that 1 game with the whole "NY's College Team" thing and a sold out MSG and when they came up short again to SU it really set them back mentally

 

[Frozen]

STJ's next coach is going to be Adrian "Red Storm" Autry.

 

[Moontan]

Maybe Carnesecca's inner Bill Snyder will come to rescue the Johnnies.

 

[orangefan13]

he brought them from last in the big east back to the medicore program they are whats there not to like

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's about time.

Lavin has been treated with kid gloves by the New York media since he got to St. John's. He gets credit for taking SJU to the NCAAs in his first year after they hadn't been there for 8 years. What nobody ever brings up though is that those kids on that team were previous coach Norm Roberts' kids. The roster for Lavin's first year had 10 seniors on it. 10. Roberts recruited the whole roster. That team would've made the tourney with or without Lavin.

The proof of that is that Lavin has done nothing since. He gets credit for raising the recruiting bar by getting higher rated players but what does that mean if it doesn't translate into wins?

I get that he was sick last year so I'll give him a pass on that, but his career record - including his years at UCLA - just shows a mediocre coach. He got the UCLA job by default after two other assistants with more experience had already left after Harrick was fired and Lavin inherited a championship team. Recruiting took care of itself for a few years because of that and the talent couldn't help but win games.

His first 5 years at UCLA his record was 114-41 (71%). His last 2 years: 31-31. His first year at St. John's - again with Roberts' upperclassmen - he was 21-12. Since then: 40-43.

I've always thought St. John's let Roberts go too soon. The guy finally had the program on the brink of becoming relevant again and then they dumped him in favor of Lavinwood all the glitz and image he came with.

He had 5 straight Sweet 16 appearances at UCLA. We've NEVER done that as a program. And this was not the UCLA of the Wooden years. The guy can coach. For whatever reason, this collection of talent has tuned him out, and they don't trust each other. They play selfishly. That's why they're losing. They probably need a couple guys to leave, and the chemistry can improve.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Actually, I'd like to see what Ed Cooley could do with SJU. If he can get talented kids to Providence, he could clean up in the city.

The problem is Cooley can't get good players who actually qualify. He has lost his best recruit for 3 or 4 straight years. If Providence is getting a top 50 kid, you can almost bet that they won't qualify. Otherwise a better program would have scooped them up.

 

[Upstate]

It really seems difficult to fail at St. John's. So many talented players in the city/area, playing in MSG for home games, NYC exposure. Maybe they need a New York guy?

 

[Orange87]

He had 5 straight Sweet 16 appearances at UCLA. We've NEVER done that as a program. And this was not the UCLA of the Wooden years. The guy can coach. For whatever reason, this collection of talent has tuned him out, and they don't trust each other. They play selfishly. That's why they're losing. They probably need a couple guys to leave, and the chemistry can improve.

He didn't have 5 straight Sweet 16s, he had 3 straight and 5 out of 6 years. Still, you're right, Boeheim hasn't done that and it's still an accomplishment.

But...I still think that the cache of UCLA and the fact that they had just won a championship when he started coaching had a lot to do with the kind of players he got and the success that that allowed him to have.

 

[ElwoodJBlues]

Both Lavin and Kevin Willard have been given a long, long leash by the NY tabloids. It's interesting that the tabloids are quick to jump on professional sports' coaches but both Willard and Lavin have done nothing with highly recruited players.

 

[jec1521]

Both Lavin and Kevin Willard have been given a long, long leash by the NY tabloids. It's interesting that the tabloids are quick to jump on professional sports' coaches but both Willard and Lavin have done nothing with highly recruited players.

That's because NYC doesn't care about college basketball.

 

[ElwoodJBlues]

That's because NYC doesn't care about college basketball.

Which is sad because it's a great city to watch sports in.

 

[Whitey23]

St. John’s running out of players as Chris Obekpa transfers

St John’s frontline has gone from thin to almost nonexistent.

Shot-blocking specialist Chris Obekpa was granted his release on Thursday, a source told The Post, just a few weeks after sophomore forward JaKarr Sampson declared for the draft.

It leaves the Johnnies with seven scholarship players with forwards Orlando Sanchez and God’sgift Achiuwa and guard Marco Bourgault graduating in May and no incoming recruits.