"Our 9/11"

[orange79]

Sorry but I am talking about specifically about how fans would react if we received similar sanctions not sanctions due to the horrendous actions at Penn State. I am talking about in general if SU somehow was levied these sanctions say for some type of other NCAA violations. Although lets say the Fine situation did occur and we were hit with sanctions, I think the board would still be up in arms as long as there was no long term cover up like the PSU admin.

There's the difference. Not sure you would see sanctions like PSU got unless there was a long-term cover up. If the situation was the same as PSU, I think most would say "Shut it Down." If it was the same sanctions for some 'lesser' crime, indignation might be justified. Apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

 

[orangenirvana]

Sorry but I am talking about specifically about how fans would react if we received similar sanctions not sanctions due to the horrendous actions at Penn State. I am talking about in general if SU somehow was levied these sanctions say for some type of other NCAA violations. Although lets say the Fine situation did occur and we were hit with sanctions, I think the board would still be up in arms as long as there was no long term cover up like the PSU admin.

If that's what you're saying, then okay, but I don't understand your point. The whole reason why people here (and everywhere else) are reacting to PSU fans' outrage over the sanctions is because people are appalled at the PSU community's lack of perspective. PSU fans are completely out of touch and many seem to have more issue with the NCAA's punishment than their university covering for a pedophile in order to protect the football program which in turn resulted in more child rape. That's the issue people have.

 

[JeremyCuse]

There's the difference. Not sure you would see sanctions like PSU got unless there was a long-term cover up. If the situation was the same as PSU, I think most would say "Shut it Down." If it was the same sanctions for some 'lesser' crime, indignation might be justified. Apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

No worries, I just wanted to clarify that I am not saying sanctions aren't justified and that PSU didnt get what was coming to them but that I can understand how sanctions of that mangnitude would lead fans especially die hard fans of the program to be devestated. I think I could have clarified the point I was trying as I can see why it might be a bit confusing. As you noted in your second to last sentence I was trying to look at from an SU perspective if we received harsh penalties for the Fine situation without the cover up, which in retrospect isnt really the same as the PSU situation.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If that's what you're saying, then okay, but I don't understand your point. The whole reason why people here (and everywhere else) are reacting to PSU fans' outrage over the sanctions is because people are appalled at the PSU community's lack of perspective. PSU fans are completely out of touch and many seem to have more issue with the NCAA's punishment than their university covering for a pedophile in order to protect the football program which in turn resulted in more child rape. That's the issue people have.

I agree with your point about the coverup really being the issue, I was trying to look at it from strictly a PSU fan perspective about the sanctions themselves and seperate the two but you make a good point in that the crimes were so heinous I guess you cant. My only point was that as a diehard fan of SU athletics (bball, Fball, Lax etc) I can understand why there fans would be from strictly a sanctions standpoint devestated and that if SU had similar sanctions due to you know some issue I think most on this board would be pretty devestated as well.

 

[SU2NASA]

1. Academics ( Reputation, Rankings, Diversity of Majors and Course Offerings, Ability to attract employers to campus)

It's become apparent that the only reason they have academics is so they qualify to play college football.

The "university" is a joke and I will regard it as such until they get their collective priorities straight, which doesn't seem like will happen.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Unfortunately I have personnally seen the disillusionment of Ped St fans. A Ped St fan/friend of mine on his Facebook made the comment "We are still Penn St". This ignited a long comment thread between his wife and him and a few other people. My friend is a very good person, he was my roommate while we were stationed in Korea together. However, his responses are proof that Ped St fans have completely lost sight if what is important...that the kids are the only victims in this. They are mad at the NCAA for leveling these sanctions, but what choice did the NCAA have? Thay just about had to level sanctions of some sort. The Ped St fans should not be angry at the NCAA but at school's former admimistrators and leadership, along with some current BoT members.

To be honest based on all this I afraid that the NCAA trying to send a message will only affect those outside Ped St fanbase, most of those within it just have not gotten the message and are even defiant...sad really...

 

[tipphill]

several years ago i said psu had the characteristics of a cult. the article above is so unbelievable as to defy rational thinking---and he was grad. if anyone had a doubt about giving psu the death penalty--it should now be gone--i will say it again the ncaa failed in not giving the death penalty and making a firm statement in eradicating cultist attitude.

 

[KaiserUEO]

And yet some people still think we shouldn't find a replacement game and dump their sick school.

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absolutely not. just who the fluck would Syracuse think they are to do so??

that would be the stupidest thing to do on the planet.

lets just tell the ncaa that we didnt agree with their punishment so we are going to inflict a little more, this time based on OUR morals.

puh-fluckin-lease.

 

[AirForceOrange]

several years ago i said psu had the characteristics of a cult. the article above is so unbelievable as to defy rational thinking---and he was grad. if anyone had a doubt about giving psu the death penalty--it should now be gone--i will say it again the ncaa failed in not giving the death penalty and making a firm statement in eradicating cultist attitude.

I understand your point, however I don't think it would have worked...Reading that arrticle and also from my friend's posts on Facebook are evidence to me that any sanctions from least to most extreme would not have killed this culture just made the fans/culture more defiant. At most I think it would have affected those fans who have had perspective through this whole ordeal...

 

[orangenirvana]

Unfortunately I have personnally seen the disillusionment of Ped St fans. A Ped St fan/friend of mine on his Facebook made the comment "We are still Penn St". This ignited a long comment thread between his wife and him and a few other people. My friend is a very good person, he was my roommate while we were stationed in Korea together. However, his responses are proof that Ped St fans have completely lost sight if what is important...that the kids are the only victims in this. They are mad at the NCAA for leveling these sanctions, but what choice did the NCAA have? Thay just about had to level sanctions of some sort. The Ped St fans should not be angry at the NCAA but at school's former admimistrators and leadership, along with some current BoT members.

To be honest based on all this I afraid that the NCAA trying to send a message will only affect those outside Ped St fanbase, most of those within it just have not gotten the message and are even defiant...sad really...

My cousin and her husband are PSU alums, work for the school and live in State College. You're absolutely right about their defiant attitudes and misguided anger. My cousin is an intelligent woman who actually hates football, but is still defensive about the whole situation and believes pretty strongly that the Penn State community has been wronged.

Their view is that (a) The Freeh report has many flaws and is not based on undeniable fact, yet the media and general public ignores this, (b) those responsible for the "cover up" are all gone, either in prison, dead, or fired, (c) the NCAA's ruling is unfair to all who had nothing to do with the cover up and is merely creating more victims, (d) it will be five years before Penn State can begin to heal.

The one that really bothers me is (d), because it goes to show how ingrained the win-at-all-costs mentality is. They can start "healing" yesterday if they wanted to! But winning football games is so important that it is their belief that they can't start "healing" until they're winning 10 games a year and going to bowls again. And this coming from a woman who hates football. That to me is what blows my mind.

I love sports and am an extremely competitive person and root like hell for my teams to win every game. But this whole situation is a lesson to all sports fans that it is critical we keep perspective, recognize sports (especially at the amateur level) for what they are and hold basic values ahead of wins.

 

[AirForceOrange]

My cousin and her husband are PSU alums, work for the school and live in State College. You're absolutely right about their defiant attitudes and misguided anger. My cousin is an intelligent woman who actually hates football, but is still defensive about the whole situation and believes pretty strongly that the Penn State community has been wronged.

Their view is that (a) The Freeh report has many flaws and is not based on undeniable fact, yet the media and general public ignores this, (b) those responsible for the "cover up" are all gone, either in prison, dead, or fired, (c) the NCAA's ruling is unfair to all who had nothing to do with the cover up and is merely creating more victims, (d) it will be five years before Penn State can begin to heal.

The one that really bothers me is (d), because it goes to show how ingrained the win-at-all-costs mentality is. They can start "healing" yesterday if they wanted to! But winning football games is so important that it is their belief that they can't start "healing" until they're winning 10 games a year and going to bowls again. And this coming from a woman who hates football. That to me is what blows my mind.

I love sports and am an extremely competitive person and root like hell for my teams to win every game. But this whole situation is a lesson to all sports fans that it is critical we keep perspective, recognize sports (especially at the amateur level) for what they are and hold basic values ahead of wins.

100% agree!! You can look elsewhere as well for examples of loss of perspective. One example would be certain parents at their kids sports events getting into fights with other parents, fans, refs, umps, coaches, etc.

 

[rrlbees]

absolutely not. just who the fluck would Syracuse think they are to do so??

that would be the stupidest thing to do on the planet.

lets just tell the ncaa that we didnt agree with their punishment so we are going to inflict a little more, this time based on OUR morals.

puh-fluckin-lease.

Did you copy and paste that from one of the other 6 times you told me that?

I will maintain that SU, nor other OOC teams, should play them. Call it morals all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the institution and their culture allowed countless boys to be raped. There is no penalty harsh enough for that.

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[KaiserUEO]

Did you copy and paste that from one of the other 6 times you told me that?

I will maintain that SU, nor other OOC teams, should play them. Call it morals all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the institution and their culture allowed countless boys to be raped. There is no penalty harsh enough for that.

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if its only 6x, i mustve let about 15 of your posts calling for that...to slide.

that point had merit if the ncaa didnt come down hard enough, and while i think it wasnt hard enough, it works.

why hurt the Syracuse student/athlete who was told they will be playing in Giants Stadium?? why add them to the collateral damage??

there is no reason to ever bring it up again, none.

and why do you always ignore when i ask why should Syracuse do it, expecially when we are considered a pedophile university too?? why do you want Syracuse to inject themselves into this situation?? why, please tell me why??

if your answer is...because Syracuse is an accused pedophile university and this is 1 of the steps i feel is needed to cleanse our program...then im cool with it. otherwise, you and everyone else who feels the need to further punish penn st needs to get off this high moral horse.

 

[Guinness]

They can start "healing" yesterday if they wanted to! But winning football games is so important that it is their belief that they can't start "healing" until they're winning 10 games a year and going to bowls again. And this coming from a woman who hates football. That to me is what blows my mind.

This is exactly my problem as well. They did not lose their football team. They lost the ability to have a winning football team and they have proven once again (nice lesson JoePa taught them) that winning is more important than anything else. Including the protection of children.

 

[rrlbees]

if its only 6x, i mustve let about 15 of your posts calling for that...to slide.

that point had merit if the ncaa didnt come down hard enough, and while i think it wasnt hard enough, it works.

why hurt the Syracuse student/athlete who was told they will be playing in Giants Stadium?? why add them to the collateral damage??

there is no reason to ever bring it up again, none.

and why do you always ignore when i ask why should Syracuse do it, expecially when we are considered a pedophile university too?? why do you want Syracuse to inject themselves into this situation?? why, please tell me why??

if your answer is...because Syracuse is an accused pedophile university and this is 1 of the steps i feel is needed to cleanse our program...then im cool with it. otherwise, you and everyone else who feels the need to further punish penn st needs to get off this high moral horse.

the su and pedst issues are not the same, imo.

 

[tipphill]

Were talking about two different things, I am strictly talking about the sanctions themselves that were levied against PSU and the reaction of most PSU fans. My point is if that SU received those kind of penalties regardless of the reason this fan base would be just as crazied and up in arms regardless of the reason why. Not taking a shot at you but people who say they have no problem with shutting the program down if this was SU are saying that because its not SU, if suddenly we were in danger of losing a season or two due to a death penalty opinions on this board would flip quickly.

nah,don't think so. if we covered up, and coaches and adims knew this fan base would accept it and not remain in denial

 

[AirForceOrange]

if its only 6x, i mustve let about 15 of your posts calling for that...to slide.

that point had merit if the ncaa didnt come down hard enough, and while i think it wasnt hard enough, it works.

why hurt the Syracuse student/athlete who was told they will be playing in Giants Stadium?? why add them to the collateral damage??

there is no reason to ever bring it up again, none.

and why do you always ignore when i ask why should Syracuse do it, expecially when we are considered a pedophile university too?? why do you want Syracuse to inject themselves into this situation?? why, please tell me why??

if your answer is...because Syracuse is an accused pedophile university and this is 1 of the steps i feel is needed to cleanse our program...then im cool with it. otherwise, you and everyone else who feels the need to further punish penn st needs to get off this high moral horse.

I think SU should drop Ped St and try to schedule someone else for that game, same location, so as not to have the Fine Mess brought up as a result of the game. There is no doubt in my mind if this game is played the media will not only mention Ped St's travesty but also bring back into light the Bernie Fine Mess. Do we really want that after we have, hopefully, moved on and put that in our rearview window by then? Don't care about dropping Ped St to punish them, not really our call, in SU's case especially the PR for that game owuld probably not be good...

 

[JeremyCuse]

nah,don't think so. if we covered up, and coaches and adims knew this fan base would accept it and not remain in denial

Sorry couldnt disagree more, if SU received those kind of sanctions the fan base would be livid and again I was talking about the sanctions not if Su covered anything up.

 

[Moontan]

why hurt the Syracuse student/athlete who was told they will be playing in Giants Stadium?? why add them to the collateral damage??

They wouldn't need to lose out on the game. The hope is that the game's organizers and/or sponsors will pressure PSU to agree to move the Meadowlands game to 10 years from now. Another high profile opponent could be persuaded to take their place (think Michigan or Nebraska from the B1G or LSU, Alabama or Florida from the SEC). If PSU wants to drop the series, that's OK. The only problem would be if they refused. Could the organizers un-invite PSU?

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry couldnt disagree more, if SU received those kind of sanctions the fan base would be livid and again I was talking about the sanctions not if Su covered anything up.

They are different things though. These sanctions don't happen if there was no cover up.

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[Scooch]

Sorry couldnt disagree more, if SU received those kind of sanctions the fan base would be livid and again I was talking about the sanctions not if Su covered anything up.

Maybe. Hopefully we won't have to find out.

Personally, I've said repeatedly that if the Fine situation turns out to be a lot uglier than we may think it is, then I am in complete and total support of shutting down hoops for a year or more. These are academic institutions, sports is a nice-to-have and if we can't put it in it's proper place, then we don't deserve to have it.

Am I representative of the "SU fanbase"? Probably not. But something tells me generally speaking that while there would be a good number of SU fans against any sanction for any reason, we're not Penn State.