Paying players

[AlaskaSU]

Paying market value is incompatible with college morays.
Paying less than market value is a ticket to future wage friction and dispute. Should everyone get the same payment?
Paying a small stipend will separate P-5 schools from the bulk of mid-majors, not to mention legal issues regarding equal treatment of other athletes and women. With the Nation-wide geographical spread of college basketball it is easy to judge shop to get the decision you want.

Agents can now exploit a loop-hole by paying/lending to players to skip college. Colleges have had a labor monopoly but now have no way to continue with the old model if Bazley breaks it down. Is he an anomaly or the start of a trend? Colleges paying players is not a viable defensive option.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Paying market value is incompatible with college morays.
Paying less than market value is a ticket to future wage friction and dispute. Should everyone get the same payment?
Paying a small stipend will separate P-5 schools from the bulk of mid-majors, not to mention legal issues regarding equal treatment of other athletes and women. With the Nation-wide geographical spread of college basketball it is easy to judge shop to get the decision you want.

Agents can now exploit a loop-hole by paying/lending to players to skip college. Colleges have had a labor monopoly but now have no way to continue with the old model if Bazley breaks it down. Is he an anomaly or the start of a trend? Colleges paying players is not a viable defensive option.

The old model is irreparably broken.
And it will remain so as long as kids come to college to play ball and try to go pro instead of getting a degree.
A "scholar"ship doesn't mean much.
Colleges have become minor leagues.
They can't keep pretending otherwise.

 

[upperdeck]

its only becomes minor league for about 15 guys a year.. so we should break the system for those few?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Lets say signing the LOI makes you eligible for the draft. The NBA draft guys and pay them while they stay in school.
Let's say Baze signs with Syracuse. He gets drafted by the Knicks. The Knicks tell him he is going to play next year at Syracuse, but he will get a stipend from the Knicks.
After his freshman year, the Knicks guarantee him a roster spot for next year, and Baze leaves early. If there is no guarantee, then back to SU, or take your chance and leave.
Maybe you only get to hold a kid for 2 years.
Also, the NBA reimburses the school for the scholarship.
Maybe only 2 such guys per team.
Just spitballing here.

 

[Townie72]

Lets say signing the LOI makes you eligible for the draft. The NBA draft guys and pay them while they stay in school.
Let's say Baze signs with Syracuse. He gets drafted by the Knicks. The Knicks tell him he is going to play next year at Syracuse, but he will get a stipend from the Knicks.
After his freshman year, the Knicks guarantee him a roster spot for next year, and Baze leaves early. If there is no guarantee, then back to SU, or take your chance and leave.
Maybe you only get to hold a kid for 2 years.
Also, the NBA reimburses the school for the scholarship.
Maybe only 2 such guys per team.
Just spitballing here.

At first blush, this seems like a pretty good idea. It blows the amateur vs pro rule to smithereens. But it appeals to the “individual freedom” preference I have.

Now the “guaranteeing the roster spot is a little dicey, because the pressure to skirt it could be so great. And there would have to be some limits to keep teams from stockpiling players with potential.

It’s radical and maybe that’s its appeal. You would really have to hate the current system and believe it could never be satisfactorily tweaked to do this.

 

[CousCuse]

Just keep the current system in place with the sneaker companies. If you with Nike, you go to a Nike school. If you sign with Adidas you choose from adidas' schools. The money passes through and the school is largely not involved.

 

[Alsacs]

Lets say signing the LOI makes you eligible for the draft. The NBA draft guys and pay them while they stay in school.
Let's say Baze signs with Syracuse. He gets drafted by the Knicks. The Knicks tell him he is going to play next year at Syracuse, but he will get a stipend from the Knicks.
After his freshman year, the Knicks guarantee him a roster spot for next year, and Baze leaves early. If there is no guarantee, then back to SU, or take your chance and leave.
Maybe you only get to hold a kid for 2 years.
Also, the NBA reimburses the school for the scholarship.
Maybe only 2 such guys per team.
Just spitballing here.

What you just said is what hockey and the NHL do.
Except the team reimbursing the scholarship.

NBA should follow the NHL model.

 

[maxxyz]

Lets say signing the LOI makes you eligible for the draft. The NBA draft guys and pay them while they stay in school.
Let's say Baze signs with Syracuse. He gets drafted by the Knicks. The Knicks tell him he is going to play next year at Syracuse, but he will get a stipend from the Knicks.
After his freshman year, the Knicks guarantee him a roster spot for next year, and Baze leaves early. If there is no guarantee, then back to SU, or take your chance and leave.
Maybe you only get to hold a kid for 2 years.
Also, the NBA reimburses the school for the scholarship.
Maybe only 2 such guys per team.
Just spitballing here.

These are interesting ideas and are the most rational proposals I've heard yet on the 'pay the players' discussions. Well done. Not sure if there are hidden obstacles but it would possibly allow colleges to get past Title IX rules and not have to blow up the system.

 

[All4SU]

The problem with these scenarios is they presume that college athletics should not be negatively impacted. As if we are so far gone that things cannot be corrected. IMHO, allow kids to enter the NBA/G-league if they choose. Let them succeed or fail. Let college players get an education while playing basketball - as a true amateur. Let’s reinforce the value of an education over basketball. MOST kids will never be able to make it for pay. But they can make it as a teacher, or an accountant, or as a counselor, or a business person. The false lure of a professional athletic career, or a few coins in their pockets in college are the equivalent of no future. This is the crime we are perpetuating on kids.

 

[realorange]

I think the thing that gets forgotten in all this conversation is that we are probably only talking about 50 players that are going to play professionally each year after college.
The average player is still feeling great about getting a degree for playing a sport he loves.
How you deal differently we these two groups is a tough one.

 

[supp]

I'm shocked no one has posted a picture of an eel with a mortar board yet.

 

[OrangeAl]

Let's take the problem head on. All players who don't want to be real students can go straight to wherever they want. Just don't pay them in college.
College athletics ought to be for legitimate student-athletes who find value in a scholarship.
If the quality of play suffers because a Bazley bypasses the college game, then we're at least consoled by the fact that we didn't compromise the integrity of our school.

 

[Townie72]

Let's take the problem head on. All players who don't want to be real students can go straight to wherever they want. Just don't pay them in college.
College athletics ought to be for legitimate student-athletes who find value in a scholarship.
If the quality of play suffers because a Bazley bypasses the college game, then we're at least consoled by the fact that we didn't compromise the integrity of our school.

Legitimate student athletes who are interested in a degree?

I've heard of that.

I think that's what the Ivy League and the New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) is for.

 

[nzm136]

Legitimate student athletes who are interested in a degree?

I've heard of that.

I think that's what the Ivy League and the New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) is for.

Fortunately, those conferences are both jam-packed w/ schools that everyone can get into.

Seriously though, I hear your point, but I think you're too cynical.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Let's get crazy!

Football switches to a 16-team-playoff (for the sake of my argument)

The NCAA with all of their TV & Ad revenue pays the schools who make the 16 team playoff & the sweet 16 a set amount. That amount can be used however the school seems fit but the players themselves must get a certain percentage of the total profit they make. So if they make the sweet 16 or the 16-team-playoff in football it is smaller than if they won the championship.

Syracuse makes the sweet 16 and makes $100K. Duke Makes the elite 8 and makes $250K. Kansas makes the final four and makes $500K. Michigan makes the title game and makes $1M. Villanova wins the whole thing and makes $2M.

Or something like that. Let's get crazy!!

(Yes I know football would be tougher because there's 85 guys on scholarship but football is king so I wouldn't worry about the $)

So what do schools do with that other % of the money? Give the olympic sports a nice little bonus check for their hard work. Help upgrade their facilities. Give it to me for this idea... possibilities are endless!

 

[Hoo's That]

Let's get crazy!

Football switches to a 16-team-playoff (for the sake of my argument)

The NCAA with all of their TV & Ad revenue pays the schools who make the 16 team playoff & the sweet 16 a set amount. That amount can be used however the school seems fit but the players themselves must get a certain percentage of the total profit they make. So if they make the sweet 16 or the 16-team-playoff in football it is smaller than if they won the championship.

Syracuse makes the sweet 16 and makes $100K. Duke Makes the elite 8 and makes $250K. Kansas makes the final four and makes $500K. Michigan makes the title game and makes $1M. Villanova wins the whole thing and makes $2M.

Or something like that. Let's get crazy!!

(Yes I know football would be tougher because there's 85 guys on scholarship but football is king so I wouldn't worry about the $)

So what do schools do with that other % of the money? Give the olympic sports a nice little bonus check for their hard work. Help upgrade their facilities. Give it to me for this idea... possibilities are endless!

Please use precise wording.

"The NCAA" gets $0.00 for all aspects of D-1A football and every other sport's regular season regardless of division. Because of the Regents of Georgia and Oklahoma v. NCAA SCOTUS decisions, The NCAA can only make money by selling the TV rights to its championships. The moneymaker is the D-1 basketball championship. The money from that is used to fund NCAA HQ in India-noplace and the NCAA championships in all the non-D-1A football sports at all levels. If you think the schools and conferences should do this, then you need to say, ""The schools and conferences should ..." Am I safe in assuming that SU fans would not want to be in the same camp as John Thompson the elder in wanting the TV money from the NCAA D-1 bball tournament used only for D-1 bball? He specifically stated that on the Washington, DC, sports radio station some years ago.

 

[All4SU]

Let’s forget our fandom for a minute. Forget how you currently enjoy college sports, and forget the sheer size of the animal that is college athletics.

So many of these kids playing CBB and CFB come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. We have them telling them that their athletic abilities are a way to a better life. And then what do we do? We get them into colleges, monopolize virtually all of their time, channel them to dumbed down courses, in degrees that have very little practical value, and then, when we are through with them, we send them out the door. 99 Percent of them will never earn a single paycheck playing their sport. We used them up and spit them out.

Meanwhile, back at home, on those streets, kids see that the guys who are dealing drugs or running in gangs are driving nice cars or wearing nice gear. The kids that went off to college are never heard from again, never seen in the nba, or worse, are right back where they started, not much better off than they were before.

What is the lesson here? It’s that working to better yourself in something other than football or basketball is a waste of time, and that an education doesn’t mean much. The next “sure thing” kid, will surely make it in the pros, where others clearly were unable to.

Meanwhile, people insist that the solution to this is sliding some money to the players. Placate then. Make ourselves feel like we are doing something for them. When in reality, all that serves to do is to keep them indentured in the system.

What we need is a little tough love, and a shakeout period that will dramatically change the face of amateur college athletics. Open up the G league and a nfl developmental league for kids who want to play for pay. Let it be paid for by the pros. It’s their business. Colleges are in the education business. Let colleges get back to their primary purpose. Let college athletes get degrees, improve their lives, and work toward a greater purpose than trying and failing to make a career out of playing a sport that will never materialize for them.

The message then is that the kids who succeed, who improve their lives, are the kids with an education, not those with a temporary few bucks in their pockets.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Please use precise wording.

"The NCAA" gets $0.00 for all aspects of D-1A football and every other sport's regular season regardless of division. Because of the Regents of Georgia and Oklahoma v. NCAA SCOTUS decisions, The NCAA can only make money by selling the TV rights to its championships. The moneymaker is the D-1 basketball championship. The money from that is used to fund NCAA HQ in India-noplace and the NCAA championships in all the non-D-1A football sports at all levels. If you think the schools and conferences should do this, then you need to say, ""The schools and conferences should ..." Am I safe in assuming that SU fans would not want to be in the same camp as John Thompson the elder in wanting the TV money from the NCAA D-1 bball tournament used only for D-1 bball? He specifically stated that on the Washington, DC, sports radio station some years ago.

Buddy I just made this up out of thin air do you think I did a smidge of research? Lol. Just having fun here, pay me no mind

 

[Jasoncuse]

Lets say signing the LOI makes you eligible for the draft. The NBA draft guys and pay them while they stay in school.
Let's say Baze signs with Syracuse. He gets drafted by the Knicks. The Knicks tell him he is going to play next year at Syracuse, but he will get a stipend from the Knicks.
After his freshman year, the Knicks guarantee him a roster spot for next year, and Baze leaves early. If there is no guarantee, then back to SU, or take your chance and leave.
Maybe you only get to hold a kid for 2 years.
Also, the NBA reimburses the school for the scholarship.
Maybe only 2 such guys per team.
Just spitballing here.

In theory that's a good idea. But why would NBA teams want a player they drafted to go play at a college where they may or may not be developing how the NBA team would like. What if Bazley, for example, isn't ready to play JB's zone, so Marek/Oshae see the bulk of the minutes? I'm sure the Knicks would prefer the kid be playing and learning on the go, instead of sitting the bench while a college coach is trying to win. Why not just have the kid play in the D League for the Westchester Knicks where the team can better plan and follow his progress?

 

[Hoo's That]

Buddy I just made this up out of thin air do you think I did a smidge of research? Lol. Just having fun here, pay me no mind

No problem. It just is I really want to hear people's ideas on how to fix this, but I want them to know what the reality is and go on from there. Personally, I don't think college basketball would have a noticeable drop-off if the small number of 5-star plus players decided to play overseas or in the G-League.

 

[RandygoCuse]

In theory that's a good idea. But why would NBA teams want a player they drafted to go play at a college where they may or may not be developing how the NBA team would like. What if Bazley, for example, isn't ready to play JB's zone, so Marek/Oshae see the bulk of the minutes? I'm sure the Knicks would prefer the kid be playing and learning on the go, instead of sitting the bench while a college coach is trying to win. Why not just have the kid play in the D League for the Westchester Knicks where the team can better plan and follow his progress?

this. And this alludes to the most important question. Can the G-League become better at developing talent for the NBA than the NCAA.

 

[UnknownOrange]

No problem. It just is I really want to hear people's ideas on how to fix this, but I want them to know what the reality is and go on from there. Personally, I don't think college basketball would have a noticeable drop-off if the small number of 5-star plus players decided to play overseas or in the G-League.

Absolutely.

 

[dlegend44]

this. And this alludes to the most important question. Can the G-League become better at developing talent for the NBA than the NCAA.

I hate myself for not being able to stay away from these threads... The D-League became kind of a second change league for kids that came out too early and needed more time to develop. There was a stat I saw that said 42% of current NBA players had spent time in the D-League. The D-League has been effective. It is my opinion that Gatorade sponsored the D-League and rebranded it the G-League with the intention of making it a primary development tool for top players, rather than a second chance development opportunity. Think of the G-League as a high-end skills academy for the elite prospects that fills out the roster with recent draft picks that aren't yet good enough to play in the NBA. That combination would probably make the G-League a product that could get a TV contract to fund the league.

 

[reedny]

In theory that's a good idea. But why would NBA teams want a player they drafted to go play at a college where they may or may not be developing how the NBA team would like. What if Bazley, for example, isn't ready to play JB's zone, so Marek/Oshae see the bulk of the minutes? I'm sure the Knicks would prefer the kid be playing and learning on the go, instead of sitting the bench while a college coach is trying to win. Why not just have the kid play in the D League for the Westchester Knicks where the team can better plan and follow his progress?

There should be a path directly from HS to the NBA for top prospects, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the G-L in its current form is a good "development" move for a HS prospect. The "42%" statistic is misleading because many NBA players use the G-L to rehab (e.g., Blake Griffen). Also, it's harder for a younger/thinner/less-experienced player to distinguish himself in the G-L because the rosters are older and many have college or pro experience. It's very guard-oriented (not team play) and minutes for a lanky 17-year-old are in no way guaranteed. As far as "monitoring" a kid's progress, sure the NBA has scouts watching G-L guys and once in a while they get called up (CJ Fair). But getting an NBA contract is the exception not the rule. So I hear what you're saying but there's a reason every other top HS prospect this year is going to college.

At SU, you question Bazeley's minutes. But he would very likely start, and SU would be in the national title discussion looking at a long NCAA run and tons of media coverage -- just the kind of "bright lights" NBA GM's love to see a draft prospect shine under.

 

[SU2NASA]

In theory that's a good idea. But why would NBA teams want a player they drafted to go play at a college where they may or may not be developing how the NBA team would like. What if Bazley, for example, isn't ready to play JB's zone, so Marek/Oshae see the bulk of the minutes? I'm sure the Knicks would prefer the kid be playing and learning on the go, instead of sitting the bench while a college coach is trying to win. Why not just have the kid play in the D League for the Westchester Knicks where the team can better plan and follow his progress?

Please see Hockey, College