People need to relax on Cooney

[Rocco]

I will be the president of his fan club. None of you "haters" will be allowed in when he starts draining 3's.

 

[Cusefan0307]

http://www.orangehoops.org/DNichols.htm

http://www.orangehoops.org/ARautins.htm


It's funny how short of a memory we have. It's not like Andy or DNic were amazing their first two years. Nichols was worse his sophomore year than he was his freshmen. Andy did not really start picking it up until he had to play his second year when Devendorf got in trouble. We have played exactly one exhibition game. It's not like TC was the only person who played so-so yesterday. Gbinije, bj, and patterson didn't exactly shoot the lights out yesterday, and Trevor does fine in the zone. If he hits his first 4 shots last night, and misses his last 9 i guarantee some of us have different opinions of his game. This is exactly why JB scheduled these games. For the younger and inexpierienced guys to get some run and build their confidence up. Don't forget he is a big reason why we beat Georgetown last year. I can see why we are frustrated, because everyone says he's a dead eye shooter and he hasnt been yet, but i agree with the relaxing.

If anything you would think people would be hammering Christmas more than anyone. This is his third year of actually getting run, and i didn't see anything last night that suggested to me he improved.

 

[iommi]

If anything you would think people would be hammering Christmas more than anyone. This is his third year of actually getting run, and i didn't see anything last night that suggested to me he improved.[/quote]

The big difference is expectations. Christmas' knock coming out of high school was his motor (or lack thereof)...and there's been not one report I've seen that says that Rak has been a great practice player. Rak is what he is. Cooney is a different story.

 

[orangefan13]

Cooney isn't the problem its finding another SG to put up some points. On nights when opponents SG leaves a defensive weakness we need to take advatage of that against good competition.

I predict Ennis and Gbinije will combine for around 14-17 ppg on the year by comparison without a 3rd scorer triche and mike 25ppg. And that is stretching it giving Ennis around 10 and Gbinije 6-7. I do think Ennis will be our best scorer in the backcourt by march unless Cooney starts raining 3's.

We need another guard who can put up another 7 minimum, or when Roberson gets here I am all for trying Grant at some 2g on defense while Fair switches to the perimeter on offense. We have Rak and Roberson to spell the four next to them. And Keita and Dajuan at center, so we have the heads to do it.

Rons jumper looked alittle better then BJ's last night although I don't think it necessarilly is, BJ upside was a point forward type of player last night. He cut into the lane once or twice and made a nice kickout but his shot wasn't falling. Hope to see differently the next few games.


IMO,Xmas played solid at the four yesterday he is more mobile then ever and hes facing his man up and attempting to drive on him as he isn't a backdown hookshot type of big. He has shown a ability to get a short jumpshot up pretty quick but early in the season he needs to be taking those 3-4 times a night, and the key word there is quick soft fluent release. Just like Cooney he was trying last night.
Cooney needs to relax his form was all over the place with different mistakes on different shots. Way to emotional, he needs to be more mechanical. Save the emotion for after the ball hits the net rim whatever.

 

[sufandu]

[quote="The big difference is expectations. Christmas' knock coming out of high school was his motor (or lack thereof)...and there's been not one report I've seen that says that Rak has been a great practice player. Rak is what he is. Cooney is a different story.[/quote] I would think expectations for Rak would be higher since he was a Mcdonalds All American.

 

[im4cuse]

He's 21 years old (this month) -- the Andy and DNic comparisons aren't on point, IMO. By that age Andy and DNic were scoring in bunches. Moreover, those prior teams had other outside threats. The current team maybe not (that's what's puzzling about not recruiting over him). I love the kid's effort, work ethic and am rooting for him -- we NEED him as much as anyone on the roster. He's back again tonight and two more times after that this week, against increasing harder competition, so we'll see.

But at some point, without consistent performance, its the triumph of hope over experience. It doesn't work in third marriages either.

Just hope come late March this isn't the end of our dream for this squad.

 

[iommi]

[quote="The big difference is expectations. Christmas' knock coming out of high school was his motor (or lack thereof)...and there's been not one report I've seen that says that Rak has been a great practice player. Rak is what he is. Cooney is a different story.

I would think expectations for Rak would be higher since he was a Mcdonalds All American.[/quote]
Fair point on Rak being a Burger boy. He just hasn't shown any capacity to get better so I guess I'm resigned to a lower ceiling with Rak. Rak is a great athlete but he just seems to play at his pace, which IMO is on cruise control.

 

[orangejunkie]

In the past I have felt that Rak does not have a consistent motor but didn't see that in the last game. I think the effort was there. He was obviously frustrated by smaller defenders. I think his problem is that he basically has limited skills. He reminds me a little of the forward that played alongside of Daryl Watkins (name not coming to me). Very athletic run/jump kind of athlete but not great hands and lack of basic basketball skills. I think he will be good for around 8 points a game but surprised to see more than that.

The way the team is configured they basically have 3 center types with several athletic forwards that frankly give them more offense. I wish we could trade Rakeem for a stud shooting guard!

 

[iommi]

In the past I have felt that Rak does not have a consistent motor but didn't see that in the last game. I think the effort was there. He was obviously frustrated by smaller defenders. I think his problem is that he basically has limited skills. He reminds me a little of the forward that played alongside of Daryl Watkins (name not coming to me). Very athletic run/jump kind of athlete but not great hands and lack of basic basketball skills. I think he will be good for around 8 points a game but surprised to see more than that.

The way the team is configured they basically have 3 center types with several athletic forwards that frankly give them more offense. I wish we could trade Rakeem for a stud shooting guard!

Terrence Roberts. Roc is a much better athlete than T-Rob but they were limited offensively. T-Rob gained a lot of respect when he played through a knee injury his last year.

I'd sign up for 8 ppg from Roc in a heartbeat. (he prefers "Roc.")

 

[Orangezoo]

If Cooney in his 2nd year playing can give us numbers like Andy did from deep along with a few buckets from getting to the rim/line every game it will be a success. 33-35% isn't great but it also is enough to make him a threat.

 

[orangefan13]

In the past I have felt that Rak does not have a consistent motor but didn't see that in the last game. I think the effort was there. He was obviously frustrated by smaller defenders. I think his problem is that he basically has limited skills. He reminds me a little of the forward that played alongside of Daryl Watkins (name not coming to me). Very athletic run/jump kind of athlete but not great hands and lack of basic basketball skills. I think he will be good for around 8 points a game but surprised to see more than that.

The way the team is configured they basically have 3 center types with several athletic forwards that frankly give them more offense. I wish we could trade Rakeem for a stud shooting guard!

Agree 100%, but I think he does have pretty good hands especially when rebounding, and the basketball skills are coming along. Last night he was trying to be a isolation scorer some, thats more basketball skill then taking what you can get like he did in the past. The fact he didn't dunk the ball or get a backdoor cut layup but got his 4 points from the midpost(2 of them getting to the line from there) thats a plus.


I hope he keeps pushing that If we can get 2-4 isolation buckets in acc play and add 2-3 of his backdoor patentant layup dunks he could be up to 8-10ppg suddenly. And with Dajuan next to him thats a real plus!

I liked his motor last night. I can just picture Raftery saying Keep pushing it Big Fella!!

 

[Sgt Cuse]

In the past I have felt that Rak does not have a consistent motor but didn't see that in the last game. I think the effort was there. He was obviously frustrated by smaller defenders. I think his problem is that he basically has limited skills. He reminds me a little of the forward that played alongside of Daryl Watkins (name not coming to me). Very athletic run/jump kind of athlete but not great hands and lack of basic basketball skills. I think he will be good for around 8 points a game but surprised to see more than that.

The way the team is configured they basically have 3 center types with several athletic forwards that frankly give them more offense. I wish we could trade Rakeem for a stud shooting guard!

If you do that trade maybe you could get a tradeback clause for '14-'15? Roc is slated to be quite valuable then as he will assume the defensive stopper center role on what should be an explosive team.

This year Roc is a luxury. He really seems best at center, where we have 2 others.

On the other hand, someone stepping up as a decent sg is not a luxury, it is important to the success of this years squad. The talk of soph's Nichols and Rautins is not encouraging - Nichols was terrible and although Andy was better it was on a 24-11 NIT squad.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Fair point on Rak being a Burger boy. He just hasn't shown any capacity to get better so I guess I'm resigned to a lower ceiling with Rak. Rak is a great athlete but he just seems to play at his pace, which IMO is on cruise control.

I think a lot of it of it has to do with the fact that there wasn't as much big man depth last season as there is backcourt depth this season. Coleman had his conditioning/knee issues, Baye couldn't do anything with the ball until late in the season, and bigger guys would push Southerland around if he got inside, so Boeheim's hands were sort of tied. Whereas if Cooney continues to struggle, it'll be pretty easy to plug in Gbinije or Patterson. Obviously those guys aren't guarantees either, but at least there should be some roster flexibility.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

Young players? Yikes.
He's a RS Soph.
In this era of college basketball, freshman and soph are usually the best players.

I disagree!

We've only had a couple players in the last 10 years you could say that about.

 

[sufandu]

Fair point on Rak being a Burger boy. He just hasn't shown any capacity to get better so I guess I'm resigned to a lower ceiling with Rak. Rak is a great athlete but he just seems to play at his pace, which IMO is on cruise control.

That's kinda my point. Expectations for Rak should be high considering his highschool ranking and athleticism. If the guy could develop two go to moves, say a drop step and baby hook, he'd be really productive. Cooney had a good rating but certainly not elite, yet people think he should be JJ Reddick. I think the reason is two fold. GMac was an assassin right from the get go and we want him to be another GMac, and some people are basing expectations for him on the needs of the team.

 

[iommi]

That's kinda my point. Expectations for Rak should be high considering his highschool ranking and athleticism. If the guy could develop to go to moves, say a drop step and baby hook, he'd be really productive. Cooney had a good rating but certainly not elite, yet people think he should be JJ Reddick. I think the reason is two fold. GMac was an assassin right from the get go and we want him to be another GMac, and some people are basing expectations for him on the needs of the team.

All good points...people were also comparing Cooney's athletic ability to Rex Chapman!

 

[sufandu]

All good points...people were also comparing Cooney's athletic ability to Rex Chapman!

Ooh, I hadn't heard that one. :crazy:

 

[rrlbees]

All good points...people were also comparing Cooney's athletic ability to Rex Chapman!

Actually what some people compared was his type of game to Chapmans including showing the same kind of athleticism. His HS film, besides the shooting, showed a lot of dunking on fast breaks and taking it to the hole with athleticism and dunking, just like Chapman used to do in HS.


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