Pittsburgh, Syracuse not likely to play in ACC by 2012

[Orangeyes]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/17/1785126/pittsburgh-syracuse-not-likely.html

 

[PhatOrange]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/17/1785126/pittsburgh-syracuse-not-likely.html

Very cool of the ACC and SEC to have a double header at the Atlanta Dome with ncstate/tennesse and clemson/auburn

Per the article:

Most of the non-conference games are set, including an ACC vs. SEC doubleheader on Sept. 1 in Atlanta’s Georgia Dome.

 

[sufan]

Very cool of the ACC and SEC to have a double header at the Atlanta Dome with ncstate/tennesse and clemson/auburn

Per the article:

Most of the non-conference games are set, including an ACC vs. SEC doubleheader on Sept. 1 in Atlanta’s Georgia Dome.

------------------

1) "The Notre Dame trend will also continue in the ACC. The Irish will face Miami (Oct. 6 in Chicago), visit Boston College (Nov. 10) and host Wake Forest (Nov. 17). Pitt will go to Notre Dame on Oct. 3, a week after the Irish are at Oklahoma.

2) SU and Pitt obviously won't be playing in the ACC in 2012, and I continue to doubt WVU is going anywhere as well.

The Rhode Island court has rejected the argument that WVU is somehow immune from their contractual obligations as a state school or that West Virginia is an equitable alternative venue for the Big East.

 

[dasher]

WVU is just going to go. Period.

 

[SU2NASA]

Ok, so football can't go to the ACC in 2012, but why can't we negotiate an out for the other sports?

 

[Moontan]

WVU is just going to go. Period.

Agreed.

Unless some agreement can be reached, they will simply go AWOL.

The sooner the conference recognizes this the better. It needs to inform its football members that there will only be 7 teams in the league next year. It may want to lean on the poachers (Big XII & ACC) to offer some help. The longer they wait, the less likely that that will happen.

I know you say: "but the other conference teams already have their OOC schedules set." Here's how that works: if a BE team (say Syracuse) needs to find 2 games then it may be possible to find an ACC team and one of its OOC opponents to agree to replace their game with one against a BE school. The ACC team picks up a winnable BCS opponent (yeah, that's SU) and the BE team picks up 2 games... one home and one away. It requires some scheduling flexibility, a willing OOC opponent and possibly some $ (supplied by WVU). Syracuse did this in 2004 (?) when Cincy @ Purdue became Cincy @ Syracuse & Syracuse @ Purdue.

 

[OrangePA]

Agreed.

Unless some agreement can be reached, they will simply go AWOL.

The sooner the conference recognizes this the better. It needs to inform its football members that there will only be 7 teams in the league next year. It may want to lean on the poachers (Big XII & ACC) to offer some help. The longer they wait, the less likely that that will happen.

I know you say: "but the other conference teams already have their OOC schedules set." Here's how that works: if a BE team (say Syracuse) needs to find 2 games then it may be possible to find an ACC team and one of its OOC opponents to agree to replace their game with one against a BE school. The ACC team picks up a winnable BCS opponent (yeah, that's SU) and the BE team picks up 2 games... one home and one away. It requires some scheduling flexibility, a willing OOC opponent and possibly some $ (supplied by WVU). Syracuse did this in 2004 (?) when Cincy @ Purdue became Cincy @ Syracuse & Syracuse @ Purdue.

I don't think so.

The law is just not that easy.

WVU is probably not going anywhere for awhile - unless it buys its way out.

 

[Moontan]

I don't think so.

The law is just not that easy.

WVU is probably not going anywhere for awhile - unless it buys its way out.

We'll see. The BE by-laws must not be that thorough and/or clear... either in fully addressing membership issues or dispute resolution.

What is the law going to do? Kidnap the WVU football team on 3 or 4 weekends and haul them to various BE venues? Have armed personnel at Mountaineer Field to keep WVU there on BE home weekends while keeping visiting Big XII teams off the field?

Let me guess, the law will threaten WVU with fines. Force WVU's banks to transfer WVU funds into escrow accounts. Unless those fines are greater than $2m per football game, WVU won't care. They believe they'll eventually win the case and get their money back. Even if they don't, they'll have recouped those fines in additional revenues. In the mean time, BE schools will still be left without opponents to play.

These kinds of disputes really should be handled in house (by the NCAA). The BCS (by extension, its members) are responsible for creating this atmosphere. Self policing (e.g. something akin to the 1930s punishment of KY hoops (1-year ban)) would carry more weight than a government fine.

7 months 'til the season kicks off. tick, tock. tick, tock.

What WVU is doing (or trying to do) is slimy. They clearly see it as their only way out of your beloved BE and may even believe that the law will back them. It's an ugly chapter in intercollegiate athletics.

 

[OrangePA]

We'll see. The BE by-laws must not be that thorough and/or clear... either in fully addressing membership issues or dispute resolution.

What is the law going to do? Kidnap the WVU football team on 3 or 4 weekends and haul them to various BE venues? Have armed personnel at Mountaineer Field to keep WVU there on BE home weekends while keeping visiting Big XII teams off the field?

Let me guess, the law will threaten WVU with fines. Force WVU's banks to transfer WVU funds into escrow accounts. Unless those fines are greater than $2m per football game, WVU won't care. They believe they'll eventually win the case and get their money back. Even if they don't, they'll have recouped those fines in additional revenues. In the mean time, BE schools will still be left without opponents to play.

These kinds of disputes really should be handled in house (by the NCAA). The BCS (by extension, its members) are responsible for creating this atmosphere. Self policing (e.g. something akin to the 1930s punishment of KY hoops (1-year ban)) would carry more weight than a government fine.

7 months 'til the season kicks off. tick, tock. tick, tock.

What WVU is doing (or trying to do) is slimy. They clearly see it as their only way out of your beloved BE and may even believe that the law will back them. It's an ugly chapter in intercollegiate athletics.

I have read the WVU Complaint.

The legal theories advanced are just plain silly.

I am not a commercial litigator but it seems to me that the allegations are pretty easily dismissed.

 

[sufan]

We'll see. The BE by-laws must not be that thorough and/or clear... either in fully addressing membership issues or dispute resolution.

What is the law going to do? Kidnap the WVU football team on 3 or 4 weekends and haul them to various BE venues? Have armed personnel at Mountaineer Field to keep WVU there on BE home weekends while keeping visiting Big XII teams off the field?

Let me guess, the law will threaten WVU with fines. Force WVU's banks to transfer WVU funds into escrow accounts. Unless those fines are greater than $2m per football game, WVU won't care. They believe they'll eventually win the case and get their money back. Even if they don't, they'll have recouped those fines in additional revenues. In the mean time, BE schools will still be left without opponents to play.

These kinds of disputes really should be handled in house (by the NCAA). The BCS (by extension, its members) are responsible for creating this atmosphere. Self policing (e.g. something akin to the 1930s punishment of KY hoops (1-year ban)) would carry more weight than a government fine.

7 months 'til the season kicks off. tick, tock. tick, tock.

What WVU is doing (or trying to do) is slimy. They clearly see it as their only way out of your beloved BE and may even believe that the law will back them. It's an ugly chapter in intercollegiate athletics.

--------------

Well we both agree that what "What WVU is doing (or trying to do) is slimy."

However, WVU also apparently believes it is not liable for contractual agreements it helped write for very good reasons and entered into with an athletic conference located outside WV with members all located outside WV and can unilaterally decide what it wants to do regardless of contractual obligations.

To me, that's more than slimy.

 

[BORZAK]

THE BIG EAST OFFICE WILL SCREW THIS UP LIKE USUAL. WE WILL BE SCRABBLING FOR A GAME WATCH.

 

[hoopsupstate]

If West Virginia isn't in the Big East next year, who will we be able to beat?

 

[orange79]

THE BIG EAST OFFICE WILL SCREW THIS UP LIKE USUAL. WE WILL BE SCRABBLING FOR A GAME WATCH.

Will you PLEASE take your caps lock off!

 

[Moontan]

I have read the WVU Complaint.

The legal theories advanced are just plain silly.

I am not a commercial litigator but it seems to me that the allegations are pretty easily dismissed.

OK... so what?
What if WVU rejects the legal process... what can the courts do?
People/companies regularly pay fines associated with the breaking of contracts (apartment/office leases, mobile phone contracts, etc.). How is this different? Is it possible that WVU has calculated a maximum possible expected financial penalty and accepted that as the cost of doing business?

If this is the case - and WVU has given every indication that it is - wouldn't the BE football members still be screwed? Would that (leaving the other conference members hanging) not reek of negligence on the Conference's part? If I'm TGD, I want to know how this is going to play out (either way) so that I can scrape together the best possible schedule, given the circumstances. In the extreme, a lack of response or action by the Conference might even lead me to follow WVU's example.

Having the conference commissioner pin all his hopes on the legal process and assuming that the conference will win the legal cases and that WVU will comply comes across as a naive position to this forum participant.

 

[Alsacs]

If the Big East is successful in court and WVU refuses to play in 2012 then the BE can get an Injunction preventing WVU from participating in collegiate sports if they don't fulfill the terms of the Contract they entered into with the Big East.

 

[JD]

The fact that the court order mediation indicates they really don't want to get involved in this pissing contest. I doubt the court would ever issue an injunction forcing them to play in the BE. More likely scenario is a $20 million exit fee.

 

[Moontan]

If the Big East is successful in court and WVU refuses to play in 2012 then the BE can get an Injunction preventing WVU from participating in collegiate sports if they don't fulfill the terms of the Contract they entered into with the Big East.

OK, so the Providence Mafia wins the case in Rhode Island and the musket-toters win the case in West Virginia... who is going to enforce these decisions and how?

I am just struggling to see how WVU, in their game at Texas, will be kept from taking the field. Will officials from the Republic of Texas choose to honor the RI ruling and reject the WV ruling and send armed personnel to Darrell K Royal – Texas Memorial Stadium? Really?

 

[Moontan]

The fact that the court order mediation indicates they really don't want to get involved in this pissing contest. I doubt the court would ever issue an injunction forcing them to play in the BE. More likely scenario is a $20 million exit fee.

The sooner the league recognizes this, and agrees to a payoff amount, the better it'll be for the remaining football members. tick, tock.

 

[Alsacs]

OK, so the Providence Mafia wins the case in Rhode Island and the musket-toters win the case in West Virginia... who is going to enforce these decisions and how?

I am just struggling to see how WVU, in their game at Texas, will be kept from taking the field. Will officials from the Republic of Texas choose to honor the RI ruling and reject the WV ruling and send armed personnel to Darrell K Royal – Texas Memorial Stadium? Really?

Eventually the two cases will have to be consolidated into 1 lawsuit. Both sides filed lawsuits in the "home field" venue. I believe WVU will ultimately be successful because they filed their lawsuit first and I believe because they are a State Agency of the State of WV they should have sovereign immunity from being sued in other state courts. However, I was just speaking hypothetically if the Court rejects their legal arguments and says you have a contractual obligation for 27 months and that Court rules in the Big East favor. If WVU refused to play in the Big East the Court would most likely order an Injunction preventing them legally from playing a Big XII schedule.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

I'm a lawyer in WV now. The first filed action in WV will likely move forward to conclusion and at some point the RI action will be stayed. WVU cannot be made to stay in the Big East. That is akin to slavery. The remedy for breach of contract is not mandating compliance, because a Court ruling to that effect would practically speaking be unenforceable. The remedy for breach of contract is how much money it takes to make the BE whole. Either WVU and the BE can agree on that amount themselves or at some point, they can present evidence of such damages and have a third party--a judge or jury-- decide the issue, hence the race to the courthouses of WV and RI. Of course breach still has to be proven and will be vigorously contested, but my point is that the remedy is cash not indentured servitude. I would agree that either way WVU is gone for 2012. The Big East is weighing whether to settle now so BE teams can fill schedules or fighting to the latest date so they can't and instead maximizing damages. Fans lose without the extra game, but the big East and it's member teams will still get the cash they would have made.

 

[Orangeyes]

Will you PLEASE take your caps lock off!

I really have never understood why that bothers people so much. I have a friend who sends me lengthy emails, all in caps. I guess everyone has their preferences but that has never bothered me. I'm sure I'm in the minority.

 

[repos]

sheesh then where stuck watching syracuse play these scrub schools in the big east?? Atleast it will be interesting watching SU travel across the country ---__---

 

[Moontan]

sheesh then where stuck watching syracuse play these scrub schools in the big east?? Atleast it will be interesting watching SU travel across the country ---__---

Huh?
The expectation is that 2012-2013 will be the same as 2011-2012, possibly without WVU.

The addition of UCF, SMU, Houston, Boise State, and SDSU won't happen until 2013-2014... which coincides with the expected move of Syracuse & Pitt to the ACC.

 

[sutomcat]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/17/1785126/pittsburgh-syracuse-not-likely.html

The way I figure it, if WVU, SU and Pitt leave the Big East in 2012 and the Big East is forced to cancel the football season, Rutgers owes them the $5 million they would have spent keeping their comatose football program on life support.

 

[GoSU96]

I'm a lawyer in WV now. The first filed action in WV will likely move forward to conclusion and at some point the RI action will be stayed. WVU cannot be made to stay in the Big East. That is akin to slavery. The remedy for breach of contract is not mandating compliance, because a Court ruling to that effect would practically speaking be unenforceable. The remedy for breach of contract is how much money it takes to make the BE whole. Either WVU and the BE can agree on that amount themselves or at some point, they can present evidence of such damages and have a third party--a judge or jury-- decide the issue, hence the race to the courthouses of WV and RI. Of course breach still has to be proven and will be vigorously contested, but my point is that the remedy is cash not indentured servitude. I would agree that either way WVU is gone for 2012. The Big East is weighing whether to settle now so BE teams can fill schedules or fighting to the latest date so they can't and instead maximizing damages. Fans lose without the extra game, but the big East and it's member teams will still get the cash they would have made.

Akin to slavery?

WVU entered into the contract of their own free will, and agreed to the the rules of that association.

I'm sure the BE is seeking specific performance for 2012. They have mitigated the harm by getting teams lined up for 2013, but the BE has a solid basis to seek equitable relief for this upcoming season.