"Plane of the Goal Line"

[SWC75]

I'm tired of cheap touchdowns. I think the rule at the goal line should be the same as on a pass to the sideline or end line of the end zone: the player should be down in the end zone with control of the ball. None of this stick it out and score, (or have it slapped away as just happened to Dallas).

 

[BuffOrange]

If you want to risk said fumble/touchback how cheap can it be. The current rule seems like a good enough compromise. Which is why I'm over everyone whining about the touchback rule every time it happens.

 

[SWC75]

Both player and ball should be in the end zone. receivers at the back of the end zone can't wiggle the ball while going out of bounds and get a score. Why should you be able to do it at the goal line? The ball doesn't score the touchdown. The player with the ball does.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Both player and ball should be in the end zone. receivers at the back of the end zone can't wiggle the ball while going out of bounds and get a score. Why should you be able to do it at the goal line? The ball doesn't score the touchdown. The player with the ball does.

In your scenario, the receiver isn’t in the field of play.
What about 1st downs?
Also, I don’t agree. The goal is to get “the ball” into the end zone, not the player. If the player scores the points, not the ball, what about field goals? What about fumbles or blocked kicks through the end zone for safeties?

 

[SWC75]

In your scenario, the receiver isn’t in the field of play.
What about 1st downs?
Also, I don’t agree. The goal is to get “the ball” into the end zone, not the player. If the player scores the points, not the ball, what about field goals? What about fumbles or blocked kicks through the end zone for safeties?

That's quite a bushell of apples and oranges. A field goal isn't good because it breaks the "plane of the end zone". What do first downs have to do with it? Nobody is in possession of the ball when fumbles or blocked kicks go through the end zone. We're talking about touchdowns here. The receiver isn't in the field of play if he doesn't get the two feet in, (or the one in college). The standard should be the same.

 

[MSOrange]

That's quite a bushell of apples and oranges. A field goal isn't good because it breaks the "plane of the end zone". What do first downs have to do with it? Nobody is in possession of the ball when fumbles or blocked kicks go through the end zone. We're talking about touchdowns here. The receiver isn't in the field of play if he doesn't get the two feet in, (or the one in college). The standard should be the same.

I was thinking of first downs also. So when a guy stretches the ball forward for a first down, are you ok with that or should it be spotted where the player is? I think it's a valid discussion so I'm not arguing against your view. Just throwing out a question.

 

[SWC75]

I was thinking of first downs also. So when a guy stretches the ball forward for a first down, are you ok with that or should it be spotted where the player is? I think it's a valid discussion so I'm not arguing against your view. Just throwing out a question.

There's no line of scrimmage in the end zone. I have no problem with putting the line of scrimmage where the ball was when the player is down. But I think to score, the player should be in the end zone, as he has to be when he makes a catch.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah. The “he didn’t control it all the way” when a guy catches a pass in the end zone, gets both feet down, and gets knocked to the ground and loses the ball after hitting the ground is maddening...especially when you can just reach the ball over the imaginary line and get a TD.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's quite a bushell of apples and oranges. A field goal isn't good because it breaks the "plane of the end zone". What do first downs have to do with it? Nobody is in possession of the ball when fumbles or blocked kicks go through the end zone. We're talking about touchdowns here. The receiver isn't in the field of play if he doesn't get the two feet in, (or the one in college). The standard should be the same.

The premise of the OP to which I responded was that in order to score (a TD) both the player and the ball should have to be in the end zone.
FG- No one carries the ball through the upright.
Fumble or block through the end zone - No one has the ball, so how can points be scored.
FB is wholly consistent with scoring: it is the ball that matters, not where the player is.
Same thing for first downs.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

There's no line of scrimmage in the end zone. I have no problem with putting the line of scrimmage where the ball was when the player is down. But I think to score, the player should be in the end zone, as he has to be when he makes a catch.

Line of scrimmage is irrelevant. You mean the line to gain (to get a first down). The goal line is a the definitive to line to gain (for a touchdown). It’s the same thing, so the rules should be the same: where is the ball.
Also, a player doesn’t have to be in the end zone in order to catch a pass and score. He just has to be in bounds when he catches the pass. He could catch a pass while feet are in bounds, but not in the end zone, but the ball is.

 

[SWC75]

The premise of the OP to which I responded was that in order to score (a TD) both the player and the ball should have to be in the end zone.
FG- No one carries the ball through the upright.
Fumble or block through the end zone - No one has the ball, so how can points be scored.
FB is wholly consistent with scoring: it is the ball that matters, not where the player is.
Same thing for first downs.

Line of scrimmage is irrelevant. You mean the line to gain (to get a first down). The goal line is a the definitive to line to gain (for a touchdown). It’s the same thing, so the rules should be the same: where is the ball.
Also, a player doesn’t have to be in the end zone in order to catch a pass and score. He just has to be in bounds when he catches the pass. He could catch a pass while feet are in bounds, but not in the end zone, but the ball is.

We're starting to repeat ourselves.

Since we are talking about scoring a touchdown, field goals ("Nobody carries the ball through the uprights"?!?), and safeties where the ball rolls out of the end zone are irrelevant. The end zone is the definitive place to score a touchdown and receivers have to come down in it for a touchdown catch to count. They can't wave the ball over it to score. The player has to be in the end zone. I think a player crossing the goal line should pass the same test. Scoring a touchdown is a much bigger deal than getting a first down and there should be a sterner test to get it.

 

[ForCuseSake]

We're starting to repeat ourselves.

Since we are talking about scoring a touchdown, field goals ("Nobody carries the ball through the uprights"?!?), and safeties where the ball rolls out of the end zone are irrelevant. The end zone is the definitive place to score a touchdown and receivers have to come down in it for a touchdown catch to count. They can't wave the ball over it to score. The player has to be in the end zone. I think a player crossing the goal line should pass the same test. Scoring a touchdown is a much bigger deal than getting a first down and there should be a sterner test to get it.

You want to add more rules for referees to adjudicate at the goal line that differ completely from how they make the same determination everywhere else on the field.

No thanks, they have enough difficulty getting it right as it is (even with replay).

 

[upperdeck]

so we want to go back to the original rule.. touch down the ball.. like rugby

 

[MSOrange]

We're starting to repeat ourselves.

Since we are talking about scoring a touchdown, field goals ("Nobody carries the ball through the uprights"?!?), and safeties where the ball rolls out of the end zone are irrelevant. The end zone is the definitive place to score a touchdown and receivers have to come down in it for a touchdown catch to count. They can't wave the ball over it to score. The player has to be in the end zone. I think a player crossing the goal line should pass the same test. Scoring a touchdown is a much bigger deal than getting a first down and there should be a sterner test to get it.

So are you proposing no more reaching over the goal line with the ball like some RBs do on some runs and QBs sometimes do on QB sneaks?

 

[SWC75]

So are you proposing no more reaching over the goal line with the ball like some RBs do on some runs and QBs sometimes do on QB sneaks?

Yes. Get into the end zone with the ball rather than waving it at the goal line or the pylon.

 

[JustPherU]

We're starting to repeat ourselves.

Since we are talking about scoring a touchdown, field goals ("Nobody carries the ball through the uprights"?!?), and safeties where the ball rolls out of the end zone are irrelevant. The end zone is the definitive place to score a touchdown and receivers have to come down in it for a touchdown catch to count. They can't wave the ball over it to score. The player has to be in the end zone. I think a player crossing the goal line should pass the same test. Scoring a touchdown is a much bigger deal than getting a first down and there should be a sterner test to get it.

That’s not true that a receiver has to be in the end zone. Receiver can catch ball at the one and stretch the ball over goal line and it is a touchdown