SWC75
Bored Historian
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Every year at this time in football there is a crescendo of on the field drama that lasts now more than three months, (with one missing link). It starts with the high school playoffs, (first Section III, then the state championships). Then comes the small college playoffs- the NAIA, NCAA Division III, Division II and Division 1AA, (FCS). Then comes the NFL playoffs, leading to the Super Bowl. The one missing link is the NCAA Division I, (FBS), which essentially has a two team playoff for a decision with 120 schools in it, with obvious contenders left out every year. Maybe after all this conference realignment, the powers that be will fix that. The four team playoff that will commence in 2014 will be a step forward but an 8 team playoff would be better. If they want automatic bids we could got to a 16 team playoff, (D3 has a 32 team playoff so it’s very doable) In the meantime we have seven other championship tournaments to look forward to.
I’ve always liked tournaments. Two teams meet then two other teams meet and then the winners pair off, each subsequent game a battle of winners. The eventual winner isn’t always the best team, (see the NCAA basketball tournament last year), but they are the champions and have proven it on the field. You either are the best team or you won the tournament that included all the best teams. There’s never any controversy- unless, as in FBS, the tournament is too small and leaves out obvious contenders.
SECTION III
Section III of New York State basically covers Central New York. There are five classifications based on enrollment: AA for the largest schools, then A, B, C and D. Some schools are “borderline schools” that switch from classifications in some years as their enrollment or the statistical standard changes. In rare cases, schools are promoted beyond their enrollment, usually because they are private schools with no boundaries such as a public school system would have, and can draw students, (and elite players) from all over. The local example of that is Christian Brothers Academy, (CBA), which, by enrollment would be in Class C and was there at one time but so dominated that class, then Class B, then Class A that they now play in Class AA and have won the state championship at that level.
This is a pet peeve of mine. The strength of high school programs is largely based on having youth programs that feed into the varsity, good facilities and the quality of coaching. It may be an advantage to have a greater enrollment to draw players from but if the extra students aren’t good players, what good does it do you? High school ball used to be organized in geographical conferences with natural rivalries. Schools who fell behind their rivals would either build up the youth programs, facilities and coaching or they would seek another conference with lesser rivals. Presently they are thrown in together with similarly sized schools that may be some distance away and be could be much stronger programs and yet they are expected to compete with them just because they have a similar number of students.
There is also the problem that schools who have hopes of making the playoffs and maybe going onto the states can get their players to commit to preparing for the football season during the summer while those that don’t can’t and their kids take summer jobs to make some spending money instead. Then those schools hastily organize teams as the season is about to begin, with predictably dire results when they play the schools with good teams. High school games used to have 28-14 type scores. If a team won a game by 30 or 40 points, it was big news, an awesome display. Now, as you look at the box scores each week you can see multiple games with 40-0 or 50-0 type halftime scores. Some of these teams could score 100 points if they wanted to. What kind of educational experience is that- for the players on either team? Some schools simply give up on the season before it’s done because their players are tired of the physical and emotional beatings they keep taking.
Finally, with five divisions, we have the same problem boxing has with its split divisions and multiple sanctioning organizations- fiefdoms. Boxers with the WBO super-middleweight title have no motivation for fighting the WBA super-middleweight champion because they are already a “champion” and can retain it just by fighting the tomato cans the WBO fills their “top ten” with rather than risking their title against somebody who might actually beat them. There’s nothing so greedy involved with high school ball but the fact is, there aren’t really five levels of football quality in high school football.
Before the current classification system, there used to be a concept of simply “Big Schools”, (basically the Onondaga County League North- where most of the population is, the CNY Cities League and the Central Oneida League for the Utica area schools), and the “Small Schools” (Mostly the Onondaga County League South, at least in the Syracuse area). I always thought that worked pretty well. The small schools basically equated to classes B,C and D. The big schools were classes A and AA. Looking at the sectional results over the years, I see that Onondaga in the Mike Hart years won state titles in Class D, then Class C, then Class D again. They won by bigger margins in Class C than they did in Class D. Dolgeville has won 12 Class D Sectional titles and three in Class C. They even beat CBA for the Class C title in 1995. Cazenovia, a perennial Class B power, won titles there in 2006 and 2007, then moved down to Class C in 2008 and 2009 and couldn’t win titles there.
There was no Class AA until 1983. Cortland and East Syracuse-Minoa, former CNY Cities League and Onondaga County league North teams now in Class A, both made the original Class A playoffs. When the state playoffs began in 1993 with no Class AA, the section had to choose a team and sent the Class AA champs to the states. The next year they abandoned Class AA for two years until the State created the class so the Class A schools would have a chance to make the states. They didn’t but the playoff scores were close. Liverpool beat Whitesboro 21-14. Henninger beat Fulton 20-12. Whitesboro used to be Class AA Rome Free Academy’s biggest rival. I just don’t see a lot of difference between the level of completion in Classes AA and A or in B, C and D. The Dolgevilles, Onondagas and General Browns should be competing with class B powers like Cazenovia, Westhill and Oneida. ESM, J-D and Whitesboro should be taking on teams like Baldwinsville, West Genesee and RFA as they always used to. By separating them, you break off rivalries and have them playing too many inferior opponents.
What I’d like to see is three divisions: Class A, corresponding to the current Classes AA and A, Class B, with the most successful schools from the current Classes B, C and D. The third classification would be for schools of all sizes who just aren’t that good in football, simply because they lack the desire or resources to be good. They still would like to have a team but they don’t want to be down 50-0 at halftime. Once those levels are established, have a system that would allow- or even force- a school to move up or down based on their record over the previous 5 years. If a team is uncompetitive in their classification, they move down. If a team is dominant, they move up. That will improve the completion and get us back to 28-14 games instead of 50-0 games. (Obviously the changes would have to be state-wide to conform to the state tournament.)
Anyway, we have what we have. One virtue of having too many divisions, (but not, I feel, an adequate reason for it), is that lots of schools have won sectional championships - 50 out of 78 current Section III football schools. Here is a list. Please note that there was no Class AA in 1979-82 and 1994-95. Also, before the state playoffs, ties were allowed and the teams that tied were considered co-champions. That happened three times: Bishop Grimes and Clinton in Class B in 1984, Dolgeville and Beaver River in Class D in 1987 and Skaneateles and Mount Markham in Class C in 1992. I’ve listed both participants as champions below. I’ve also added in the highest rated Section III teams in the state polls from 1969, (when they began) through 1978. The state poll was for all teams in 1969 and divided into large schools and small schools from 1970-78
Adirondack C- 1989, 1991
Auburn Poll- 1970, 1972, 1974, 1975 (large) AA- 2006
Baldwinsville AA- 1986, 1989, 2009, 2010
Beaver River D- 1986, 1987
Bishop Grimes- B- 1984
Bishop Ludden C- 2000, 2007
Camden A- 2003
Carthage A- 1997, 2007
Cato-Meridian D-1993
Cazenovia Poll- 1971, 1976 (small) C- 1996, B- 2001, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012
Central Square A- 1985
Chittenango B- 1993 A- 1999, B-2011
Christian Brothers Academy C- 1997 B- 1998, 1999, 2000, A- 2001, 2002, AA- 2004, 2005, 2012
Clinton B- 1984
Corcoran Poll- 1971 (large) A- 1991 B- 1994, 1995, AA- 2002, 2003
Dolgeville D-1982, 1983, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, C- 1993, 1994, 1995, D- 1998, 2000, 2002, 2008
East Syracuse-Minoa A- 2006, 2011
Fayetteville-Manlius A- 1998, AA- 2001
Fowler B- 1991
Frankfort Schuyler C- 1982
Fulton A- 2000
General Brown- C - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010
Hamilton D-1996, 1999
Henninger AA- 1990, A 1995, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2008
Herkimer C- 1980, 1981, 1984, 2011
Holland Patent B- 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989
Homer B- 1985, 1986, 2000
Jamesville-Dewitt Poll- 1976 (large) B- 1981, A- 1984, B- 1997
Ilion Poll- 1975 (small) C- 1985, 1990, B- 1996
Indian River C-1987
Lafayette Poll- 1970 (small)
Liverpool A- 1979, 1982, AA- 1983, 1987 A-1994, AA- 1998
Lowville C- 1986, 1988, 1998
Mount Markham Poll- 1977 (small) C- 1983, 1992
New Hartford A - 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2008
Nottingham Poll- 1977 (large) B- 1980, A- 2012
Oneida Poll- 1974, 1978 (small) B- 2008
Onondaga D- 2001, C- 2002, D-2003, 2006, 2007, 2010
Rome Catholic D-1979, 1980
Rome Free Academy Poll- 1978 (large) A- 1980, 1981, AA- 1984, 1985, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996
Sandy Creek- D- 2012
Sauquiot Valley D-1984
Skaneateles C- 1992, 2012
Solvay Poll- 1972 (small) B- 1979, 2002
Utica Notre Dame Poll- 1969, 1973 (large) B- 1982, A-1983, C- 1999
Vernon-Verona-Sherrill B- 1990, 1992
Watertown Immaculate Heart D- 2005
Weedsport D-1981, 1994, 1995, C-2001, D- 2004
West Canada D-1997
West Genesee AA- 1988, 2007, 2011
Westhill Poll- 1973, (small) B-2003, 2004, 2009
Westmoreland C- 1979, D-1988, C- 2006, 2008, D- 2009, 2011
Whitesboro A- 1986, 1992, 1996, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010
The number of titles won:
15- Dolgeville
9- Rome Free Academy
9- Christian Brothers Academy
8- Cazenovia, Whitesboro
6- Corcoran, Henninger, Liverpool, New Hartford, Onondaga, Westmoreland
5- Auburn, General Brown, Utica Notre Dame, Weedsport
4- Baldwinsville, Herkimer, Holland Patent, Ilion, Jamesville-Dewitt, Nottingham, Westhill
3- Chittenango, Homer, Lowville, Mount Markham, Oneida, Solvay, West Genesee
2- Adirondack, Beaver River, Bishop Ludden, Carthage, East Syracuse-Minoa, Fayetteville-Manlius, Hamilton, Rome Catholic, Skaneateles,Vernon-Verona-Sherrill1
1- Bishop Grimes, Camden, Cato-Meridian, Central Square, Clinton, Fowler, Frankfurt-Schuyler, Fulton, Indian River, Lafayette, Sandy Creek, Sauquiot Valley, Watertown Immaculate Heart, West Canada
State (playoff) Champions from Section III (10):
1997- West Canada (Class D)
2000- Dolgeville (Class D)
2001- Onondaga (Class D)
2002- Onondaga (Class C)
2003- Onondaga (Class D)
2004- Christian Brothers Academy (Class AA), Weedsport (Class D)
2006- Auburn (Class AA)
2007- West Genesee Class AA), Bishop Ludden (Class C)
(None in 6 years- can we break through this year?)
I’ve always liked tournaments. Two teams meet then two other teams meet and then the winners pair off, each subsequent game a battle of winners. The eventual winner isn’t always the best team, (see the NCAA basketball tournament last year), but they are the champions and have proven it on the field. You either are the best team or you won the tournament that included all the best teams. There’s never any controversy- unless, as in FBS, the tournament is too small and leaves out obvious contenders.
SECTION III
Section III of New York State basically covers Central New York. There are five classifications based on enrollment: AA for the largest schools, then A, B, C and D. Some schools are “borderline schools” that switch from classifications in some years as their enrollment or the statistical standard changes. In rare cases, schools are promoted beyond their enrollment, usually because they are private schools with no boundaries such as a public school system would have, and can draw students, (and elite players) from all over. The local example of that is Christian Brothers Academy, (CBA), which, by enrollment would be in Class C and was there at one time but so dominated that class, then Class B, then Class A that they now play in Class AA and have won the state championship at that level.
This is a pet peeve of mine. The strength of high school programs is largely based on having youth programs that feed into the varsity, good facilities and the quality of coaching. It may be an advantage to have a greater enrollment to draw players from but if the extra students aren’t good players, what good does it do you? High school ball used to be organized in geographical conferences with natural rivalries. Schools who fell behind their rivals would either build up the youth programs, facilities and coaching or they would seek another conference with lesser rivals. Presently they are thrown in together with similarly sized schools that may be some distance away and be could be much stronger programs and yet they are expected to compete with them just because they have a similar number of students.
There is also the problem that schools who have hopes of making the playoffs and maybe going onto the states can get their players to commit to preparing for the football season during the summer while those that don’t can’t and their kids take summer jobs to make some spending money instead. Then those schools hastily organize teams as the season is about to begin, with predictably dire results when they play the schools with good teams. High school games used to have 28-14 type scores. If a team won a game by 30 or 40 points, it was big news, an awesome display. Now, as you look at the box scores each week you can see multiple games with 40-0 or 50-0 type halftime scores. Some of these teams could score 100 points if they wanted to. What kind of educational experience is that- for the players on either team? Some schools simply give up on the season before it’s done because their players are tired of the physical and emotional beatings they keep taking.
Finally, with five divisions, we have the same problem boxing has with its split divisions and multiple sanctioning organizations- fiefdoms. Boxers with the WBO super-middleweight title have no motivation for fighting the WBA super-middleweight champion because they are already a “champion” and can retain it just by fighting the tomato cans the WBO fills their “top ten” with rather than risking their title against somebody who might actually beat them. There’s nothing so greedy involved with high school ball but the fact is, there aren’t really five levels of football quality in high school football.
Before the current classification system, there used to be a concept of simply “Big Schools”, (basically the Onondaga County League North- where most of the population is, the CNY Cities League and the Central Oneida League for the Utica area schools), and the “Small Schools” (Mostly the Onondaga County League South, at least in the Syracuse area). I always thought that worked pretty well. The small schools basically equated to classes B,C and D. The big schools were classes A and AA. Looking at the sectional results over the years, I see that Onondaga in the Mike Hart years won state titles in Class D, then Class C, then Class D again. They won by bigger margins in Class C than they did in Class D. Dolgeville has won 12 Class D Sectional titles and three in Class C. They even beat CBA for the Class C title in 1995. Cazenovia, a perennial Class B power, won titles there in 2006 and 2007, then moved down to Class C in 2008 and 2009 and couldn’t win titles there.
There was no Class AA until 1983. Cortland and East Syracuse-Minoa, former CNY Cities League and Onondaga County league North teams now in Class A, both made the original Class A playoffs. When the state playoffs began in 1993 with no Class AA, the section had to choose a team and sent the Class AA champs to the states. The next year they abandoned Class AA for two years until the State created the class so the Class A schools would have a chance to make the states. They didn’t but the playoff scores were close. Liverpool beat Whitesboro 21-14. Henninger beat Fulton 20-12. Whitesboro used to be Class AA Rome Free Academy’s biggest rival. I just don’t see a lot of difference between the level of completion in Classes AA and A or in B, C and D. The Dolgevilles, Onondagas and General Browns should be competing with class B powers like Cazenovia, Westhill and Oneida. ESM, J-D and Whitesboro should be taking on teams like Baldwinsville, West Genesee and RFA as they always used to. By separating them, you break off rivalries and have them playing too many inferior opponents.
What I’d like to see is three divisions: Class A, corresponding to the current Classes AA and A, Class B, with the most successful schools from the current Classes B, C and D. The third classification would be for schools of all sizes who just aren’t that good in football, simply because they lack the desire or resources to be good. They still would like to have a team but they don’t want to be down 50-0 at halftime. Once those levels are established, have a system that would allow- or even force- a school to move up or down based on their record over the previous 5 years. If a team is uncompetitive in their classification, they move down. If a team is dominant, they move up. That will improve the completion and get us back to 28-14 games instead of 50-0 games. (Obviously the changes would have to be state-wide to conform to the state tournament.)
Anyway, we have what we have. One virtue of having too many divisions, (but not, I feel, an adequate reason for it), is that lots of schools have won sectional championships - 50 out of 78 current Section III football schools. Here is a list. Please note that there was no Class AA in 1979-82 and 1994-95. Also, before the state playoffs, ties were allowed and the teams that tied were considered co-champions. That happened three times: Bishop Grimes and Clinton in Class B in 1984, Dolgeville and Beaver River in Class D in 1987 and Skaneateles and Mount Markham in Class C in 1992. I’ve listed both participants as champions below. I’ve also added in the highest rated Section III teams in the state polls from 1969, (when they began) through 1978. The state poll was for all teams in 1969 and divided into large schools and small schools from 1970-78
Adirondack C- 1989, 1991
Auburn Poll- 1970, 1972, 1974, 1975 (large) AA- 2006
Baldwinsville AA- 1986, 1989, 2009, 2010
Beaver River D- 1986, 1987
Bishop Grimes- B- 1984
Bishop Ludden C- 2000, 2007
Camden A- 2003
Carthage A- 1997, 2007
Cato-Meridian D-1993
Cazenovia Poll- 1971, 1976 (small) C- 1996, B- 2001, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012
Central Square A- 1985
Chittenango B- 1993 A- 1999, B-2011
Christian Brothers Academy C- 1997 B- 1998, 1999, 2000, A- 2001, 2002, AA- 2004, 2005, 2012
Clinton B- 1984
Corcoran Poll- 1971 (large) A- 1991 B- 1994, 1995, AA- 2002, 2003
Dolgeville D-1982, 1983, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, C- 1993, 1994, 1995, D- 1998, 2000, 2002, 2008
East Syracuse-Minoa A- 2006, 2011
Fayetteville-Manlius A- 1998, AA- 2001
Fowler B- 1991
Frankfort Schuyler C- 1982
Fulton A- 2000
General Brown- C - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010
Hamilton D-1996, 1999
Henninger AA- 1990, A 1995, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2008
Herkimer C- 1980, 1981, 1984, 2011
Holland Patent B- 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989
Homer B- 1985, 1986, 2000
Jamesville-Dewitt Poll- 1976 (large) B- 1981, A- 1984, B- 1997
Ilion Poll- 1975 (small) C- 1985, 1990, B- 1996
Indian River C-1987
Lafayette Poll- 1970 (small)
Liverpool A- 1979, 1982, AA- 1983, 1987 A-1994, AA- 1998
Lowville C- 1986, 1988, 1998
Mount Markham Poll- 1977 (small) C- 1983, 1992
New Hartford A - 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2008
Nottingham Poll- 1977 (large) B- 1980, A- 2012
Oneida Poll- 1974, 1978 (small) B- 2008
Onondaga D- 2001, C- 2002, D-2003, 2006, 2007, 2010
Rome Catholic D-1979, 1980
Rome Free Academy Poll- 1978 (large) A- 1980, 1981, AA- 1984, 1985, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996
Sandy Creek- D- 2012
Sauquiot Valley D-1984
Skaneateles C- 1992, 2012
Solvay Poll- 1972 (small) B- 1979, 2002
Utica Notre Dame Poll- 1969, 1973 (large) B- 1982, A-1983, C- 1999
Vernon-Verona-Sherrill B- 1990, 1992
Watertown Immaculate Heart D- 2005
Weedsport D-1981, 1994, 1995, C-2001, D- 2004
West Canada D-1997
West Genesee AA- 1988, 2007, 2011
Westhill Poll- 1973, (small) B-2003, 2004, 2009
Westmoreland C- 1979, D-1988, C- 2006, 2008, D- 2009, 2011
Whitesboro A- 1986, 1992, 1996, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010
The number of titles won:
15- Dolgeville
9- Rome Free Academy
9- Christian Brothers Academy
8- Cazenovia, Whitesboro
6- Corcoran, Henninger, Liverpool, New Hartford, Onondaga, Westmoreland
5- Auburn, General Brown, Utica Notre Dame, Weedsport
4- Baldwinsville, Herkimer, Holland Patent, Ilion, Jamesville-Dewitt, Nottingham, Westhill
3- Chittenango, Homer, Lowville, Mount Markham, Oneida, Solvay, West Genesee
2- Adirondack, Beaver River, Bishop Ludden, Carthage, East Syracuse-Minoa, Fayetteville-Manlius, Hamilton, Rome Catholic, Skaneateles,Vernon-Verona-Sherrill1
1- Bishop Grimes, Camden, Cato-Meridian, Central Square, Clinton, Fowler, Frankfurt-Schuyler, Fulton, Indian River, Lafayette, Sandy Creek, Sauquiot Valley, Watertown Immaculate Heart, West Canada
State (playoff) Champions from Section III (10):
1997- West Canada (Class D)
2000- Dolgeville (Class D)
2001- Onondaga (Class D)
2002- Onondaga (Class C)
2003- Onondaga (Class D)
2004- Christian Brothers Academy (Class AA), Weedsport (Class D)
2006- Auburn (Class AA)
2007- West Genesee Class AA), Bishop Ludden (Class C)
(None in 6 years- can we break through this year?)
