SWC75
Bored Historian
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Every year at this time in football there is a crescendo of on the field drama that lasts now more than three months, (with one missing link). It starts with the high school playoffs, (first Section III, then the state championships). Then comes the small college playoffs- the NAIA, NCAA Division III, Division II and Division 1AA, (FCS). Then comes the NFL playoffs, leading to the Super Bowl. The one missing link is the NCAA Division I, (FBS), which now has a four team playoff for a division with 127 schools in it, with some obvious contenders still left out. It’s a step forward but an 8 team playoff would be better. In the meantime we have seven other championship tournaments to look forward to.
I’ve always liked tournaments. Two teams meet then two other teams meet and then the winners pair off, each subsequent game a battle of winners. The eventual winner isn’t always the best team, (see the NCAA basketball tournament), but they are the champions and have proven it on the field. You either are the best team or you won the tournament that included all the best teams. There’s never any controversy- unless, as in FBS, the tournament is too small and leaves out obvious contenders.
SECTION III
Section III of New York State basically covers Central New York. There are five classifications based on enrollment: AA for the largest schools, then A, B, C and D. (They also a class below that of schools who didn’t feel they can compete, sponsored by the National Football Foundation. They compete for their own sectional championship but do not advance to the state playoffs.) Some schools are “borderline schools” that switch from classifications in some years as their enrollment or the statistical standard changes. In rare cases, schools are promoted beyond their enrollment, usually because they are private schools with no boundaries such as a public school system would have, and can draw students, (and elite players) from all over. The local example of that is Christian Brothers Academy, (CBA), which, by enrollment would be in Class C and was there at one time but so dominated that class, then Class B, then Class A that they now play in Class AA and have won the state championship at that level.
This is a pet peeve of mine. The strength of high school programs is largely based on having youth programs that feed into the varsity, good facilities and the quality of coaching. It may be an advantage to have a greater enrollment to draw players from but if the extra students aren’t good football players, what good does it do you? High school ball used to be organized in geographical conferences with natural rivalries. Schools who fell behind their rivals would either build up the youth programs, facilities and coaching or they would seek another conference with lesser rivals. Presently they are thrown in together with similarly sized schools that may be some distance away and be could be much stronger programs and yet they are expected to compete with them just because they have a similar number of students.
There is also the problem that schools who have hopes of making the playoffs and maybe going onto the states can get their players to commit to preparing for the football season during the summer while those that don’t can’t see their kids take summer jobs to make some spending money instead. Then those schools hastily organize teams as the season is about to begin, with predictably dire results when they play the schools with good teams. High school games used to have 28-14 type scores. If a team won a game by 30 or 40 points, it was big news, an awesome display. Now, as you look at the box scores each week you can see multiple games with 40-0 or 50-0 type halftime scores. Some of these teams could score 100 points if they wanted to. What kind of educational experience is that- for the players on either team? Some schools simply give up on the season before it’s done because their players are tired of the physical and emotional beatings they keep taking.
Finally, with five divisions, we have the same problem boxing has with its split divisions and multiple sanctioning organizations- fiefdoms. Boxers with the WBO super-middleweight title have no motivation for fighting the WBA super-middleweight champion because they are already a “champion” and can retain it just by fighting the tomato cans the WBO fills their “top ten” with rather than risking their title against somebody who might actually beat them. There’s nothing so greedy involved with high school ball but the fact is, there aren’t really five levels of football quality in high school football.
Before the current classification system, there used to be a concept of simply “Big Schools”, (basically the Onondaga County League North- where most of the population is, the CNY Cities League and the Central Oneida League for the Utica area schools), and the “Small Schools” (Mostly the Onondaga County League South, at least in the Syracuse area). I always thought that worked pretty well. In fact, the Post Standard still ranks local high school teams on that basis.
The small schools basically equated to classes B,C and D. The big schools were classes A and AA. Looking at the sectional results over the years, I see that Onondaga in the Mike Hart years won state titles in Class D, then Class C, then Class D again. They won by bigger margins in Class C than they did in Class D. Dolgeville has won 12 Class D Sectional titles and three in Class C. They even beat CBA for the Class C title in 1995. Cazenovia, a perennial Class B power, won titles there in 2006 and 2007, then moved down to Class C in 2008 and 2009 and couldn’t win titles there.
There was no Class AA until 1983. Cortland and East Syracuse-Minoa, former CNY Cities League and Onondaga County league North teams now in Class A, both made the original Class A playoffs. When the state playoffs began in 1993 with no Class AA, the section had to choose a team and sent the Class AA champs to the states. The next year they abandoned Class AA for two years until the State created the class so the Class A schools would have a chance to make the states. They didn’t but the playoff scores were close. Liverpool beat Whitesboro 21-14. Henninger beat Fulton 20-12. Whitesboro used to be Class AA Rome Free Academy’s biggest rival. I just don’t see a lot of difference between the level of completion in Classes AA and A or in B, C and D. The Dolgevilles, Onondagas and General Browns should be competing with class B powers like Cazenovia, Westhill and Oneida. ESM, J-D and Whitesboro should be taking on teams like Baldwinsville, West Genesee and RFA as they always used to. By separating them, you break off rivalries and have them playing too many inferior opponents.
What I’d like to see is a return to the “big school-small school” concept and have two classifications with two divisions in each. Class A would be a combination of the current Classes AA and A and Class B would be a combination of Classes B, C and D. Within each classification there would be 1st Division and a 2nd Division . The first division would be the teams who had the best won-lost record over the previous five years. The second division would be the teams that had the worst won- lost records over the previous five years. The divisions would be re-assessed each year so teams having trouble competing in the 1st division could move down and have better records while teams that have been dominating the 2nd division could move up and compete with better teams. Your placement would be based on- the-field results and whatever contributors to them: enrollment, youth programs, coaching, winning tradition, etc. There would be sectional playoffs for each division but the state playoffs would have only the champions of each classification’s 1st divisions. I think you’d have a more balanced regular season with fewer 60-0 games. I think you’d have more games between the good teams and the teams who have trouble competing would have a better chance to do so.
Anyway, we have what we have. One virtue of having too many divisions, (but not, I feel, an adequate reason for it), is that lots of schools have won sectional championships - 50 out of 78 current Section III football schools. Here is a list. Please note that there was no Class AA in 1979-82 and 1994-95. Also, before the state playoffs, ties were allowed and the teams that tied were considered co-champions. That happened three times: Bishop Grimes and Clinton in Class B in 1984, Dolgeville and Beaver River in Class D in 1987 and Skaneateles and Mount Markham in Class C in 1992. I’ve listed both participants as champions below. I’ve also added in the highest rated Section III teams in the state polls from 1969, (when they began) through 1978. The state poll was for all teams in 1969 and divided into large schools and small schools from 1970-78
Adirondack C- 1989, 1991 (2)
Auburn Poll- 1970, 1972, 1974, 1975 (large) AA- 2006 (5)
Baldwinsville AA- 1986, 1989, 2009, 2010 (4)
Beaver River D- 1986, 1987 (2)
Bishop Grimes- B- 1984 (1)
Bishop Ludden C- 2000, 2007 (2)
Camden A- 2003 (1)
Carthage A- 1997, 2007, 2013 (3)
Cato-Meridian D-1993 (1)
Cazenovia Poll- 1971, 1976 (small) C- 1996, B- 2001, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013 (9)
Central Square A- 1985 (1)
Chittenango B- 1993 A- 1999, B-2011 (3)
Christian Brothers Academy C- 1997 B- 1998, 1999, 2000, A- 2001, 2002, AA- 2004, 2005, 2012, 2013 (10)
Clinton B- 1984 (1
Corcoran Poll- 1971 (large) A- 1991 B- 1994, 1995, AA- 2002, 2003 (6)
Dolgeville D-1982, 1983, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, C- 1993, 1994, 1995, D- 1998, 2000, 2002, 2008, 2014 (16)
East Syracuse-Minoa A- 2006, 2011 (2)
Fayetteville-Manlius A- 1998, AA- 2001 (2)
Fowler B- 1991 (1)
Frankfort Schuyler C- 1982 (1)
Fulton A- 2000 (1)
General Brown- C - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2013 (6)
Hamilton D-1996, 1999 (2)
Henninger A- 1990, AA 1995, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2008, 2013, 2014 (8)
Herkimer C- 1980, 1981, 1984, 2011 (4)
Holland Patent B- 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989 (4)
Homer B- 1985, 1986, 2000, 2014 (4)
Jamesville-Dewitt Poll- 1976 (large) B- 1981, A- 1984, B- 1997 (4)
Ilion Poll- 1975 (small) C- 1985, 1990, B- 1996 (3)
Indian River C-1987, A- 2014 (2)
Lafayette Poll- 1970 (small) (1)
Liverpool A- 1979, 1982, AA- 1983, 1987 A-1994, AA- 1998 (6)
Lowville C- 1986, 1988, 1998 (3)
Mount Markham Poll- 1977 (small) C- 1983, 1992 (3)
New Hartford A - 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2008 (6)
Nottingham Poll- 1977 (large) B- 1980, A- 2012 (3)
Oneida Poll- 1974, 1978 (small) B- 2008 (3)
Onondaga D- 2001, C- 2002, D-2003, 2006, 2007, 2010 (6)
Rome Catholic D-1979, 1980 (2)
Rome Free Academy Poll- 1978 (large) A- 1980, 1981, AA- 1984, 1985, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996 (9)
Sandy Creek- D- 2012 (1)
Sauquiot Valley D-1984 (1)
Skaneateles C- 1992, 2012 (2)
Solvay Poll- 1972 (small) B- 1979, 2002 (2)
Utica Notre Dame Poll- 1969, 1973 (large) B- 1982, A-1983, C- 1999, 2014 (6)
Vernon-Verona-Sherrill B- 1990, 1992 (2)
Watertown Immaculate Heart D- 2005 (1)
Weedsport D-1981, 1994, 1995, C-2001, D- 2004 (5)
West Canada D-1997 (1)
West Genesee AA- 1988, 2007, 2011 (3)
Westhill Poll- 1973, (small) B-2003, 2004, 2009 (4)
Westmoreland C- 1979, D-1988, C- 2006, 2008, D- 2009, 2011 (6)
Whitesboro A- 1986, 1992, 1996, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010 (7)
The number of titles won:
16- Dolgeville
10- Christian Brothers Academy
9- Cazenovia, Rome Free Academy
8- Whitesboro
7- Henninger
6- Corcoran, General Brown, Liverpool, New Hartford, Onondaga, , Utica Notre Dame, Westmoreland
5- Auburn, Herkimer, Weedsport
4- Baldwinsville, Holland Patent, Homer, Ilion, Jamesville-Dewitt, Nottingham, Westhill
3- Carthage, Chittenango, Lowville, Mount Markham, Oneida, Solvay, West Genesee
2- Adirondack, Beaver River, Bishop Ludden, East Syracuse-Minoa, Fayetteville-Manlius, Hamilton, Indian River, Rome Catholic, Skaneateles,Vernon-Verona-Sherrill1
1- Bishop Grimes, Camden, Cato-Meridian, Central Square, Clinton, Fowler, Frankfurt-Schuyler, Fulton, Lafayette, Sandy Creek, Sauquiot Valley, Watertown Immaculate Heart, West Canada
State (playoff) Champions from Section III (10):
1997- West Canada (Class D)
2000- Dolgeville (Class D)
2001- Onondaga (Class D)
2002- Onondaga (Class C)
2003- Onondaga (Class D)
2004- Christian Brothers Academy (Class AA), Weedsport (Class D)
2006- Auburn (Class AA)
2007- West Genesee Class AA), Bishop Ludden (Class C)
2014- Indian River (Class A)
(I finally got to add another name after 7 years- and our first Class A champion. We’ve now won a state title at every level except Class B)
I’ve always liked tournaments. Two teams meet then two other teams meet and then the winners pair off, each subsequent game a battle of winners. The eventual winner isn’t always the best team, (see the NCAA basketball tournament), but they are the champions and have proven it on the field. You either are the best team or you won the tournament that included all the best teams. There’s never any controversy- unless, as in FBS, the tournament is too small and leaves out obvious contenders.
SECTION III
Section III of New York State basically covers Central New York. There are five classifications based on enrollment: AA for the largest schools, then A, B, C and D. (They also a class below that of schools who didn’t feel they can compete, sponsored by the National Football Foundation. They compete for their own sectional championship but do not advance to the state playoffs.) Some schools are “borderline schools” that switch from classifications in some years as their enrollment or the statistical standard changes. In rare cases, schools are promoted beyond their enrollment, usually because they are private schools with no boundaries such as a public school system would have, and can draw students, (and elite players) from all over. The local example of that is Christian Brothers Academy, (CBA), which, by enrollment would be in Class C and was there at one time but so dominated that class, then Class B, then Class A that they now play in Class AA and have won the state championship at that level.
This is a pet peeve of mine. The strength of high school programs is largely based on having youth programs that feed into the varsity, good facilities and the quality of coaching. It may be an advantage to have a greater enrollment to draw players from but if the extra students aren’t good football players, what good does it do you? High school ball used to be organized in geographical conferences with natural rivalries. Schools who fell behind their rivals would either build up the youth programs, facilities and coaching or they would seek another conference with lesser rivals. Presently they are thrown in together with similarly sized schools that may be some distance away and be could be much stronger programs and yet they are expected to compete with them just because they have a similar number of students.
There is also the problem that schools who have hopes of making the playoffs and maybe going onto the states can get their players to commit to preparing for the football season during the summer while those that don’t can’t see their kids take summer jobs to make some spending money instead. Then those schools hastily organize teams as the season is about to begin, with predictably dire results when they play the schools with good teams. High school games used to have 28-14 type scores. If a team won a game by 30 or 40 points, it was big news, an awesome display. Now, as you look at the box scores each week you can see multiple games with 40-0 or 50-0 type halftime scores. Some of these teams could score 100 points if they wanted to. What kind of educational experience is that- for the players on either team? Some schools simply give up on the season before it’s done because their players are tired of the physical and emotional beatings they keep taking.
Finally, with five divisions, we have the same problem boxing has with its split divisions and multiple sanctioning organizations- fiefdoms. Boxers with the WBO super-middleweight title have no motivation for fighting the WBA super-middleweight champion because they are already a “champion” and can retain it just by fighting the tomato cans the WBO fills their “top ten” with rather than risking their title against somebody who might actually beat them. There’s nothing so greedy involved with high school ball but the fact is, there aren’t really five levels of football quality in high school football.
Before the current classification system, there used to be a concept of simply “Big Schools”, (basically the Onondaga County League North- where most of the population is, the CNY Cities League and the Central Oneida League for the Utica area schools), and the “Small Schools” (Mostly the Onondaga County League South, at least in the Syracuse area). I always thought that worked pretty well. In fact, the Post Standard still ranks local high school teams on that basis.
The small schools basically equated to classes B,C and D. The big schools were classes A and AA. Looking at the sectional results over the years, I see that Onondaga in the Mike Hart years won state titles in Class D, then Class C, then Class D again. They won by bigger margins in Class C than they did in Class D. Dolgeville has won 12 Class D Sectional titles and three in Class C. They even beat CBA for the Class C title in 1995. Cazenovia, a perennial Class B power, won titles there in 2006 and 2007, then moved down to Class C in 2008 and 2009 and couldn’t win titles there.
There was no Class AA until 1983. Cortland and East Syracuse-Minoa, former CNY Cities League and Onondaga County league North teams now in Class A, both made the original Class A playoffs. When the state playoffs began in 1993 with no Class AA, the section had to choose a team and sent the Class AA champs to the states. The next year they abandoned Class AA for two years until the State created the class so the Class A schools would have a chance to make the states. They didn’t but the playoff scores were close. Liverpool beat Whitesboro 21-14. Henninger beat Fulton 20-12. Whitesboro used to be Class AA Rome Free Academy’s biggest rival. I just don’t see a lot of difference between the level of completion in Classes AA and A or in B, C and D. The Dolgevilles, Onondagas and General Browns should be competing with class B powers like Cazenovia, Westhill and Oneida. ESM, J-D and Whitesboro should be taking on teams like Baldwinsville, West Genesee and RFA as they always used to. By separating them, you break off rivalries and have them playing too many inferior opponents.
What I’d like to see is a return to the “big school-small school” concept and have two classifications with two divisions in each. Class A would be a combination of the current Classes AA and A and Class B would be a combination of Classes B, C and D. Within each classification there would be 1st Division and a 2nd Division . The first division would be the teams who had the best won-lost record over the previous five years. The second division would be the teams that had the worst won- lost records over the previous five years. The divisions would be re-assessed each year so teams having trouble competing in the 1st division could move down and have better records while teams that have been dominating the 2nd division could move up and compete with better teams. Your placement would be based on- the-field results and whatever contributors to them: enrollment, youth programs, coaching, winning tradition, etc. There would be sectional playoffs for each division but the state playoffs would have only the champions of each classification’s 1st divisions. I think you’d have a more balanced regular season with fewer 60-0 games. I think you’d have more games between the good teams and the teams who have trouble competing would have a better chance to do so.
Anyway, we have what we have. One virtue of having too many divisions, (but not, I feel, an adequate reason for it), is that lots of schools have won sectional championships - 50 out of 78 current Section III football schools. Here is a list. Please note that there was no Class AA in 1979-82 and 1994-95. Also, before the state playoffs, ties were allowed and the teams that tied were considered co-champions. That happened three times: Bishop Grimes and Clinton in Class B in 1984, Dolgeville and Beaver River in Class D in 1987 and Skaneateles and Mount Markham in Class C in 1992. I’ve listed both participants as champions below. I’ve also added in the highest rated Section III teams in the state polls from 1969, (when they began) through 1978. The state poll was for all teams in 1969 and divided into large schools and small schools from 1970-78
Adirondack C- 1989, 1991 (2)
Auburn Poll- 1970, 1972, 1974, 1975 (large) AA- 2006 (5)
Baldwinsville AA- 1986, 1989, 2009, 2010 (4)
Beaver River D- 1986, 1987 (2)
Bishop Grimes- B- 1984 (1)
Bishop Ludden C- 2000, 2007 (2)
Camden A- 2003 (1)
Carthage A- 1997, 2007, 2013 (3)
Cato-Meridian D-1993 (1)
Cazenovia Poll- 1971, 1976 (small) C- 1996, B- 2001, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013 (9)
Central Square A- 1985 (1)
Chittenango B- 1993 A- 1999, B-2011 (3)
Christian Brothers Academy C- 1997 B- 1998, 1999, 2000, A- 2001, 2002, AA- 2004, 2005, 2012, 2013 (10)
Clinton B- 1984 (1
Corcoran Poll- 1971 (large) A- 1991 B- 1994, 1995, AA- 2002, 2003 (6)
Dolgeville D-1982, 1983, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, C- 1993, 1994, 1995, D- 1998, 2000, 2002, 2008, 2014 (16)
East Syracuse-Minoa A- 2006, 2011 (2)
Fayetteville-Manlius A- 1998, AA- 2001 (2)
Fowler B- 1991 (1)
Frankfort Schuyler C- 1982 (1)
Fulton A- 2000 (1)
General Brown- C - 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2013 (6)
Hamilton D-1996, 1999 (2)
Henninger A- 1990, AA 1995, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2008, 2013, 2014 (8)
Herkimer C- 1980, 1981, 1984, 2011 (4)
Holland Patent B- 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989 (4)
Homer B- 1985, 1986, 2000, 2014 (4)
Jamesville-Dewitt Poll- 1976 (large) B- 1981, A- 1984, B- 1997 (4)
Ilion Poll- 1975 (small) C- 1985, 1990, B- 1996 (3)
Indian River C-1987, A- 2014 (2)
Lafayette Poll- 1970 (small) (1)
Liverpool A- 1979, 1982, AA- 1983, 1987 A-1994, AA- 1998 (6)
Lowville C- 1986, 1988, 1998 (3)
Mount Markham Poll- 1977 (small) C- 1983, 1992 (3)
New Hartford A - 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2008 (6)
Nottingham Poll- 1977 (large) B- 1980, A- 2012 (3)
Oneida Poll- 1974, 1978 (small) B- 2008 (3)
Onondaga D- 2001, C- 2002, D-2003, 2006, 2007, 2010 (6)
Rome Catholic D-1979, 1980 (2)
Rome Free Academy Poll- 1978 (large) A- 1980, 1981, AA- 1984, 1985, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996 (9)
Sandy Creek- D- 2012 (1)
Sauquiot Valley D-1984 (1)
Skaneateles C- 1992, 2012 (2)
Solvay Poll- 1972 (small) B- 1979, 2002 (2)
Utica Notre Dame Poll- 1969, 1973 (large) B- 1982, A-1983, C- 1999, 2014 (6)
Vernon-Verona-Sherrill B- 1990, 1992 (2)
Watertown Immaculate Heart D- 2005 (1)
Weedsport D-1981, 1994, 1995, C-2001, D- 2004 (5)
West Canada D-1997 (1)
West Genesee AA- 1988, 2007, 2011 (3)
Westhill Poll- 1973, (small) B-2003, 2004, 2009 (4)
Westmoreland C- 1979, D-1988, C- 2006, 2008, D- 2009, 2011 (6)
Whitesboro A- 1986, 1992, 1996, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010 (7)
The number of titles won:
16- Dolgeville
10- Christian Brothers Academy
9- Cazenovia, Rome Free Academy
8- Whitesboro
7- Henninger
6- Corcoran, General Brown, Liverpool, New Hartford, Onondaga, , Utica Notre Dame, Westmoreland
5- Auburn, Herkimer, Weedsport
4- Baldwinsville, Holland Patent, Homer, Ilion, Jamesville-Dewitt, Nottingham, Westhill
3- Carthage, Chittenango, Lowville, Mount Markham, Oneida, Solvay, West Genesee
2- Adirondack, Beaver River, Bishop Ludden, East Syracuse-Minoa, Fayetteville-Manlius, Hamilton, Indian River, Rome Catholic, Skaneateles,Vernon-Verona-Sherrill1
1- Bishop Grimes, Camden, Cato-Meridian, Central Square, Clinton, Fowler, Frankfurt-Schuyler, Fulton, Lafayette, Sandy Creek, Sauquiot Valley, Watertown Immaculate Heart, West Canada
State (playoff) Champions from Section III (10):
1997- West Canada (Class D)
2000- Dolgeville (Class D)
2001- Onondaga (Class D)
2002- Onondaga (Class C)
2003- Onondaga (Class D)
2004- Christian Brothers Academy (Class AA), Weedsport (Class D)
2006- Auburn (Class AA)
2007- West Genesee Class AA), Bishop Ludden (Class C)
2014- Indian River (Class A)
(I finally got to add another name after 7 years- and our first Class A champion. We’ve now won a state title at every level except Class B)
