Question for all of you offensive guys

[Pyle]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not in the corner of either. I just want a HC who can manage the program, bring in good assistants, and recruit his arse off. Win baby, just win! Ok so now I have this question for you offensive only guys. Would you want someone like Frost, who brings in a system which may not fit the current abilities and talents of our guys, fwiw we've tried this and it didn't work. Or would you take Lester's approach of molding the offense for the current talent, which apparently also doesn't work. I ask because if we do bring in an offensive guy, and he struggles at all, this question will be debated to death. Might as well start now.

 

[Millhouse]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not in the corner of either. I just want a HC who can manage the program, bring in good assistants, and recruit his arse off. Win baby, just win! Ok so now I have this question for you offensive only guys. Would you want someone like Frost, who brings in a system which may not fit the current abilities and talents of our guys, fwiw we've tried this and it didn't work. Or would you take Lester's approach of molding the offense for the current talent, which apparently also doesn't work. I ask because if we do bring in an offensive guy, and he struggles at all, this question will be debated to death. Might as well start now.

put in your system, rip off the bandaid, and go get players.

i don't trust coaches to know what they're doing changing their offense as they go.

 

[Pyle]

put in your system, rip off the bandaid, and go get players.

i don't trust coaches to know what they're doing changing their offense as they go.

Then you have to give a guy time. What if the offense if bottom 100 for the next 3 years while you're bleeding out? This community can't stomach it. They want instant results now, and that's our Achilles heel.

 

[Millhouse]

Then you have to give a guy time. What if the offense if bottom 100 for the next 3 years while you're bleeding out? This community can't stomach it. They want instant results now, and that's our Achilles heel.

it won't take 3 years. they get 1 year to suck

 

[Pyle]

it won't take 3 years. they get 1 year to suck

What do you mean by that. If you rip off the band aid and go get your guys then you need to at least give them a couple of years in the S/C program to become men. Have you seen the size of Clemson's DBs? JEEEEEZE. I'm not trying to argue as much as I just want to know your actual viewpoint. To bring in a system guy like Frost means you need to give him the time to get his guys onto the 2-deep. 2-3 years of possible suckitude.

 

[Millhouse]

What do you mean by that. If you rip off the band aid and go get your guys then you need to at least give them a couple of years in the S/C program to become men. Have you seen the size of Clemson's DBs? JEEEEEZE. I'm not trying to argue as much as I just want to know your actual viewpoint. To bring in a system guy like Frost means you need to give him the time to get his guys onto the 2-deep. 2-3 years of possible suckitude.

it doesn't take 4 years for schools to stop sucking when they go to a leach/briles spread. even WSU which was as bad as it gets moved the ball by year 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

1, we need to stop with the "you need certain talent" to run the right offense. We're seeing guys walk in to situations that previously looked horrible on offense light it up. That's because their system works even with less than ideal talent.

2, we also need to stop with "it takes time." Again, we're seeing immediate improvement on offense when certain coaches with certain systems arrive.

3, "just win" doesn't help us. We have a battered fan base that's been subjected to mostly horrible football for a very long time. They can tell the difference between good winning football and scraping by. Scraping by low scoring wins injects some short term excitement, but it doesn't give people any hope. We need some hope. Considering that offense rules in college football, we won't have any hope until we show we can score.

4. "Balance" shouldn't be the goal either so long as we have the Dome. If a baseball team has a short right field porch, they load up on power hitting lefties. Well... the way we've ignored the Dome would be akin to that team loading up on right handed hitters.

 

[sutomcat]

1, we need to stop with the "you need certain talent" to run the right offense. We're seeing guys walk in to situations that previously looked horrible on offense light it up. That's because their system works even with less than ideal talent.

2, we also need to stop with "it takes time." Again, we're seeing immediate improvement on offense when certain coaches with certain systems arrive.

3, "just win" doesn't help us. We have a battered fan base that's been subjected to mostly horrible football for a very long time. They can tell the difference between good winning football and scraping by. Scraping by low scoring wins injects some short term excitement, but it doesn't give people any hope. We need some hope. Considering that offense rules in college football, we won't have any hope until we show we can score.

4. "Balance" shouldn't be the goal either so long as we have the Dome. If a baseball team has a short right field porch, they load up on power hitting lefties. Well... the way we've ignored the Dome would be akin to that team loading up on right handed hitters.

FYI, I read somewhere that Babers says it takes one year to install his system.

Since it took 3 years to get the offense working under DM and it never worked under SS or GRob, that sounds pretty good to me.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'd have to think that a new HC would be excited about some of the young talent SU has on the offensive side, especially if Dungy is ok.

 

[Millhouse]

FYI, I read somewhere that Babers says it takes one year to install his system.

Since it took 3 years to get the offense working under DM and it never worked under SS or GRob, that sounds pretty good to me.

at EIEIO U they got better immediately. at bgsu, they did dip a bit in year 1 but they still got 432 ypg and that was with their backup qb (how good are the bgsu backup qbs?)

i bet year 1 would be pretty great by our standards and not by his

 

[orange79]

"...all of you offensive guys..."

That's pretty much 90% of the board.

 

[upperdeck]

at EIEIO U they got better immediately. at bgsu, they did dip a bit in year 1 but they still got 432 ypg and that was with their backup qb (how good are the bgsu backup qbs?)

i bet year 1 would be pretty great by our standards and not by his

by his standards he could dip 30% and we would take it as a huge upgrade.

BG got a great QB last year but is RS behind a SR.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't know that our talent is bad either. There are some pieces. Hope Dungey is okay.

 

[MSOrange]

"...all of you offensive guys..."

That's pretty much 90% of the board.

You stole my joke! Guess that's what I get from needing to get some work in for a few minutes

 

[phil77]

I don't know that our talent is bad either. There are some pieces. Hope Dungey is okay.

Assuming Dungey health is OK we have great offensive pieces in place for a fast turn around. Just depends on how fast they pick it up.

 

[Pyle]

1, we need to stop with the "you need certain talent" to run the right offense. We're seeing guys walk in to situations that previously looked horrible on offense light it up. That's because their system works even with less than ideal talent.

2, we also need to stop with "it takes time." Again, we're seeing immediate improvement on offense when certain coaches with certain systems arrive.

3, "just win" doesn't help us. We have a battered fan base that's been subjected to mostly horrible football for a very long time. They can tell the difference between good winning football and scraping by. Scraping by low scoring wins injects some short term excitement, but it doesn't give people any hope. We need some hope. Considering that offense rules in college football, we won't have any hope until we show we can score.

4. "Balance" shouldn't be the goal either so long as we have the Dome. If a baseball team has a short right field porch, they load up on power hitting lefties. Well... the way we've ignored the Dome would be akin to that team loading up on right handed hitters.

Good post OG. Not sure about #4 though, if you want to win ACC championships then you need both. Right now I'll take the offensive approach. I'm a defensive guy, played defense only in HS so the QB didn't have to take hits, and loved watching our D over the past 6 years prior to this one. But like I said, just win, at least for me and if that means huge heart attack offensive shootouts in the Dome, well at least it should be fun to watch. Then again, watching Hogue/Smith/Jones batter Savage/Geno was alot of fun too.

 

[Briancuse]

I think its a little of both, you have to put your system in place and recruit to that system, but at the same time, you can't pass up talent if maybe they aren't the best fit for that system, you can always tweek it a little.

 

[690West]

it doesn't take 4 years for schools to stop sucking when they go to a leach/briles spread. even WSU which was as bad as it gets moved the ball by year 2

Yup. Just look at Millhouse's Baber stats in the "Baber's stats" thread. Look at the jump in YPG in year 2 at both schools he's coached.

 

[OrangeJohn]

Losing 45-52 will be so much more fun than losing 23-20.

Everyone seems to have lost their collective minds and forgotten that offense is only one of three phases of the game.

 

[Ozcuse]

I would think you put in the system, get the existing pieces to fit as well as you can, and then start recruiting specifically for your style.

We seem to have good pieces on the skill position side, maybe focus on a few more down the field wide receivers. Ishmael could be a 1,200 yard 15 TD player next year in this system. Guys like Strickland, Estime and Neal would probably become your slot wide receivers

I'm not sure how our offensive lineman will match up with this system but going forward it would seem easier to recruit leaner faster 270 lb guys than the prototypical 300 pound guys that FSU and Clemson want.

 

[Ozcuse]

Losing 45-52 will be so much more fun than losing 23-20.

Everyone seems to have lost their collective minds and forgotten that offense is only one of three phases of the game.

Winning 48-27 will be a lot more fun than losing 17-10.

 

[OrangeJohn]

Winning 48-27 will be a lot more fun than losing 17-10.

How are you going to prevent opponents from scoring fewer than 48 points if defense is an old antiquated, outdated, obsolete, irrelevant consideration in the era of spread offenses?

People around here act like Schafer is a God of Defense and he gave up over 40 points on 5 occassions this year alone. You think an offensive guy is going to hold them in the 20s?

 

[Full_Rebar]

I don't think Lester molded his offense much at all. If anything he seemed content to run his system and just tweaked the option when Mahoney played, but that's just me.

 

[rocklloyd]

Let's not discount game management skills. One could argument we lost 2 games to poor in-game coaching decisions. Heck maybe more. But that's what we're paying for this time around, not having to deal with someone learning on the job.

To me, the decision to kick off short multiple time this year destroyed us. I'm just a fan watching from 335 but it seemed opponents started more on the 50 yard line than the 10 yard line which is what you hope for when you kick it short.