Question

[capeorange]

Are our bigs, excluding Coleman, the least talented in my memory or did our coaching fall off when Bernie was fired?
I cannot remember a team with so little interior scoring.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Are our bigs, excluding Coleman, the least talented in my memory or did our coaching fall off when Bernie was fired?
I cannot remember a team with so little interior scoring.

I would say no and no. I think a bigger problem is that no one expected Fab to blow up after his sophomore season and become a first round draft pick. If he had the natural progression from frosh to soph and would have come back this season all would have been well.

 

[capeorange]

I agree with you on Fab, he by far exceeded my expectations.
I just can't remember 2 centers that missed so many point blank shots, got the ball stripped or dropped the pass.
I will admit that some of MCW''s split second passes at their feet does not help

 

[phil77]

When is the last time X-Mas had his guy on his back in the middle of the paint and received a perfect post entry pass and was allowed to make a post move? Honest question.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Here's a question that I have yet to get answered:

To those in the know, what does a typical practice look like?

And since I just watched this movie last night I'll add...anyone? anyone?...bueller?

 

[Orange Barrel]

When is the last time Rak made a wide open dunk? I wouldn't pass it to him either.

 

[Coach Orange]

When is the last time Rak made a wide open dunk? I wouldn't pass it to him either.

It was against Providence the other night. It was not on a post-up. It was on a slipped screen--Fair found him beautifully. Not coincidentally, it was a rare play where Rak's footwork was executed properly, allowing him to explode to the hoop.

 

[timkay99]

When is the last time X-Mas had his guy on his back in the middle of the paint and received a perfect post entry pass and was allowed to make a post move? Honest question.

Got one yesterday. After getting the post pass, squared up and drove into the lane and drew a foul (wasn't the best move, but drew a foul).

And that was it.

 

[retro44]

I would say no and no. I think a bigger problem is that no one expected Fab to blow up after his sophomore season and become a first round draft pick. If he had the natural progression from frosh to soph and would have come back this season all would have been well.

yet...his expectations coming from high school was a one and done here:noidea:

 

[orangecuse]

yet...his expectations coming from high school was a one and done here:noidea:

Exactly. Fab made a significant improvement from frosh to soph, but I also recall him being called a one and doner coming out of high school, so the fact that we do not have him now is/was in no way unexpected.

 

[Ghost]

When is the last time Rak made a wide open dunk? I wouldn't pass it to him either.

.560 from the field - clearly misses every shot.

It all adds up.

 

[capeorange]

Orangecuse, I remember the one and done hype prior to Fab stepping on the court but during and after his freshman year I thought no way. People were calling him a bust, Flab Melo, etc.
I just wonder, was he coached up during the off season or did he do it on his own. Based on how he left early last season, I don't think he was a motivated self starter.

 

[Coach Orange]

.560 from the field - clearly misses every shot.

It all adds up.

52% in Big East play for Rak, who is shooting just under 70% from the line in these games. These numbers support the point, too.

There should be some effort to get the ball into the post, if only to keep defenses honest.

 

[Orange Barrel]

.560 from the field - clearly misses every shot.

It all adds up.

Some other things that all add up:

Two missed easy ones.
A tip in for the Hoyas.
Kick-starting a Georgetown fast break by going up with weak shite while the shot clock was running down.
Fumbling easy passes.
Turning a 3 foot shot into an 8 footer, exactly what he was in the process of doing yesterday when he was bailed out by a foul call.

If he wants to get looks from the guards he should become an asset instead of a liability on offense.

 

[timkay99]

Some other things that all add up:

Two missed easy ones.
A tip in for the Hoyas.
Kick-starting a Georgetown fast break by going up with weak shite while the shot clock was running down.
Fumbling easy passes.
Turning a 3 foot shot into an 8 footer, exactly what he was in the process of doing yesterday when he was bailed out by a foul call.

If he wants to get looks from the guards he should become an asset instead of a liability on offense.

Wow, you watch the game with an inherent anti-Christmas bias.

To say bailed out by a foul call on a touch in the post, to say going up with weak shite while shot clock is running and a tip in for the Hoyas is written in the manner to demean Christmas as opposed to presenting facts.

I mean, honestly, look at every player yesterday and I could make a list of that stuff too.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Wow, you watch the game with an inherent anti-Christmas bias.

No. I want him to succeed.

To say bailed out by a foul call on a touch in the post, to say going up with weak shite while shot clock is running and a tip in for the Hoyas is written in the manner to demean Christmas as opposed to presenting facts.

How so? They are all facts.

I mean, honestly, look at every player yesterday and I could make a list of that stuff too.

So could I, but we were discussing Rak specifically.

 

[timkay99]

How so? They are all facts.

The reason is the manner the information is presented. The way you tell the facts is what puts the anti-Christmas bias.

- For example, bailed out on a foul call. He made a move and got fouled. Why was he "bailed out"? An athletic center will make moves that less athletic centers can't defend and they are forced to foul.
- You will throw "weak shite" up when you aren't expecting the ball and the shot clock is about to hit zero.
- The tip-in is such an obviously fluke play that happens from time to time. Would you have preferred he didn't box and let the guy get a 2 hand dunk? - the stuff I hear about this play on the board, I feel like people would have given less crap for that.

So, while everything you presented was fact, the lack of accompanying information lays it out in an anti-Christmas way.

 

[Orange Barrel]

The reason is the manner the information is presented. The way you tell the facts is what puts the anti-Christmas bias.

- For example, bailed out on a foul call. He made a move and got fouled. Why was he "bailed out"? An athletic center will make moves that less athletic centers can't defend and they are forced to foul.
- You will throw "weak shite" up when you aren't expecting the ball and the shot clock is about to hit zero.
- The tip-in is such an obviously fluke play that happens from time to time. Would you have preferred he didn't box and let the guy get a 2 hand dunk? - the stuff I hear about this play on the board, I feel like people would have given less crap for that.

So, while everything you presented was fact, the lack of accompanying information lays it out in an anti-Christmas way.

He was moving farther away from the basket again. His history says that shot will not fall. I think he got lucky on the call.

He's cutting toward the basket. That tells me he's looking for the ball. I want him to know the situation, go up strong and get fouled. I could have blocked that shot and I'm 5'7". A shot clock violation would have been better than that shot.

He didn't box out, which is why he didn't get the rebound. He's pretty bad in traffic.

I'm not anti Christmas. I want him to succeed. But he is bad right now. Really bad.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He was moving farther away from the basket again. His history says that shot will not fall. I think he got lucky on the call.

He's cutting toward the basket. That tells me he's looking for the ball. I want him to know the situation, go up strong and get fouled. I could have blocked that shot and I'm 5'7". A shot clock violation would have been better than that shot.

He didn't box out, which is why he didn't get the rebound. He's pretty bad in traffic.

I'm not anti Christmas. I want him to succeed. But he is bad right now. Really bad.

GOLD.

 

[timkay99]

He was moving farther away from the basket again. His history says that shot will not fall. I think he got lucky on the call.

He's cutting toward the basket. That tells me he's looking for the ball. I want him to know the situation, go up strong and get fouled. I could have blocked that shot and I'm 5'7". A shot clock violation would have been better than that shot.

He didn't box out, which is why he didn't get the rebound. He's pretty bad in traffic.

I'm not anti Christmas. I want him to succeed. But he is bad right now. Really bad.

To point 1 - yes, I agree. History wouldn't suggest he hits that shot. But, you have to keep in mind the farther you move away from the basket, the more uncomfortable the defender is as well, as he is used to working the post. I am fine with Christmas making that move all the time.

Cutting toward the basket can go for a rebound as well. This is what I think he was initially doing and then he got the ball and it was "oh crap".

If you want to put point 3 on Christmas for not boxing out, fine. But, there needs to be blame on the forwards for not boxing there, as I am pretty sure there were 2 Orange and 2 Hoya down underneath.

Christmas was bad in the 2nd half. He was the best player for Syracuse in the 1st half. He hasn't been good lately, but that first half was a huge step in the right direction. Then he missed that alley-oop and it went downhill fast.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Christmas has all the potential in the world. He's quick, athletic and has decent enough hands. He NEEDS to spend every day this summer perfecting a jump hook and an up and under move. He could be unstoppable if he adds some post moves, confidence and somehow finds some toughness. I'm not expecting much, but the potential is certainly there.

I want to see Coleman get some interior looks when he starts playing again. We are desperate for offense and if we can dump it down to him a few times, who knows what can happen with his scoring or with others getting looks as a result of the attention. Have to try.

 

[Ghost]

Some other things that all add up:

Two missed easy ones.
A tip in for the Hoyas.
Kick-starting a Georgetown fast break by going up with weak shite while the shot clock was running down.
Fumbling easy passes.
Turning a 3 foot shot into an 8 footer, exactly what he was in the process of doing yesterday when he was bailed out by a foul call.

If he wants to get looks from the guards he should become an asset instead of a liability on offense.

Yeah, he touches the ball hardly ever.

Our guards fall down twice a game - it just gets noticed less because they touch it all the time. How many times on an opening possession has someone thrown a pass away, or dribbled off their foot. It happens - the difference is they get another touch every time down court.

Rak/DC/Baye get another touch two weeks later.

 

[Ghost]

He was moving farther away from the basket again. His history says that shot will not fall. I think he got lucky on the call.

He's cutting toward the basket. That tells me he's looking for the ball. I want him to know the situation, go up strong and get fouled. I could have blocked that shot and I'm 5'7". A shot clock violation would have been better than that shot.

He didn't box out, which is why he didn't get the rebound. He's pretty bad in traffic.

I'm not anti Christmas. I want him to succeed. But he is bad right now. Really bad.

Rewatch that play - he's going to get his man to box out - jumps late as a result (granted, not a great play, but he wasn't doing nothing) There are three Hoyas there, and one Rak. He tips it in.

Not quite the biggest mistake in basketball history, probably not in the Top 10 from yesterday tbh.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

yet...his expectations coming from high school was a one and done here:noidea:

Well it wasn't just here. On nbadraft.net he was a one and done as well. Sometimes these things don't work out. Let's all hope that Rak uses the summer wisely. One positive is that there should be a full roster next season and Rak should be pushed for playing time.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree with you on Fab, he by far exceeded my expectations.
I just can't remember 2 centers that missed so many point blank shots, got the ball stripped or dropped the pass.
I will admit that some of MCW''s split second passes at their feet does not help

About 1998 to 2007. Especially the last two years of that time period.

And those guys got a lot more attention from their guards.