Quick SU-Clemson thoughts

[orangepassion]

• Guys left it all out there on the field and we could have won this game with a play here or there
• Obviously, everyone knows the 2 biggest plays of the game, but Dungey shorting that screen pass to Nykeim also hurt. Would've given the Defense some time to rest.
• My one tweak I would've done on Defense was sub in Shy and Armstrong to give Guthrie and Kielan a chance to rest. They were down by the end and are they that much better than the 2's?
• Agree we became a little conservative on O in the 2nd half and wish we would have opened it up more, but I get it because of the 3rd string QB. Don't think we would have played it like that if Lawrence was still in the game
• My only complaint I will say about the reffing is the constant changing of the spots. It seemed in the second half, they kept pushing ours back a yard and Clemson's forward a yard. I remember one play where Clemson clearly looked short a yard and they moved it forward a yard and didn't even ask for a measurement.
• Nice to see Harris come up big again. As a matter of fact, the WR's played as well as you can ask. Only one drop I can recall. Would have liked to see a little more of Nykeim.
• Hackett made a nice catch on that 4th down play. Would've go down in SU lore w/o the penalty.
• The DL and ST was excellent, as usual. They will keep us in every game.
• Thought the secondary played very well, including Scoop who caught some flak the 1st couple of games.
• I think we will be in every game the rest of the season, but I'm not taking any game for granted. None of the games ae gimmes and if we don't show up, we will lose. Very interested to see how we come back against Pitt on the road. I think we will, but want to see it.
• Thrilled to have Dino. Ward has also done an excellent job. It's great to matter again!

 

[Xanadu]

I think your point on resting Whitner and Guthrie is a big one. Both Armstrong and Shy tend to be better in run coverage and are big enough to shed off a lot of those blocks.

Anytime this O goes conservative and not operating at tempo they begin making execution errors. When you are at tempo your body is just naturally reacting rather than your brain trying to insert itself, it’s science. We need to be honestly that this is purely a tempo offense and we have played poorly every time we have slowed things down on O. I hope to not see that again this season unless Rex or Amie are out there running the O.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Obviously, everyone knows the 2 biggest plays of the game, but Dungey shorting that screen pass to Nykeim also hurt. Would've given the Defense some time to rest.

Let me take it a step further. Lots of people commented on that play, but let's dream for a moment that we had a living, breathing running game.

On the biggest stage of their careers, our 3 RB's combined for 28 yards. Let that sink in for a moment; 28 total yards. Split among our 3 RB's. I have seen some boxes that said 26 but I'll give them the lousy extra two yards.

That is only 4 yards more than our slot receiver rushed for in total and the distance that a high school basketball player has to run on a ONE end to end fast break.

Think about what might have been if they could have even tripled that number. 84 years would still have been putrid when combined among three guys but we could have extended who knows how many possessions. We could have given the D who knows how many more minutes of rest. We sure as he!! would have shortened the game by a lot more than 60 seconds and I don't need to tell anyone that we all wish the game would have ended 60 seconds sooner.

Even doubling a lousy 28 yards might have accomplished the same thing for all we know.

I can't recall too many times in the 60 years that I have been watching SU football (and I didn't start watching until I was 7) that we came up this small in the running game. I sure can't recall a game of this magnitude when we came up this small in the running game.

To me, that macro-issue was a much bigger story than the 2-3 individual plays that can always be pointed to in a close loss.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Let me take it a step further. Lots of people commented on that play, but let's dream for a moment that we had a living, breathing running game.

On the biggest stage of their careers, our 3 RB's combined for 28 yards. Let that sink in for a moment; 28 total yards. Split among our 3 RB's. I have seen some boxes that said 26 but I'll give them the lousy extra two yards.

That is only 4 yards more than our slot receiver rushed for in total and the distance that a high school basketball player has to run on a ONE end to end fast break.

Think about what might have been if they could have even tripled that number. 84 years would still have been putrid when combined among three guys but we could have extended who knows how many possessions. We could have given the D who knows how many more minutes of rest. We sure as he!! would have shortened the game by a lot more than 60 seconds and I don't need to tell anyone that we all wish the game would have ended 60 seconds sooner.

Even doubling a lousy 28 yards might have accomplished the same thing for all we know.

I can't recall too many times in the 60 years that I have been watching SU football (and I didn't start watching until I was 7) that we came up this small in the running game. I sure can't recall a game of this magnitude when we came up this small in the running game.

To me, that macro-issue was a much bigger story than the 2-3 individual plays that can always be pointed to in a close loss.

A couple of things - keep in mind that Clemson's Dline is probably as good as SU will see all year. That being said, I think Howard should get more carries, assuming he learns the rest of his responsibilities, as he offers more than the other two. And, while improved significantly even from the beginning of this year, the OL still could stand an upgrade.

 

[upperdeck]

to many decent first down runs and they nothing on 2/3 and shorts. The oline still does a much better job in pass blocking than run blocking. scheme/style/talent? Still say when we can be a running team we will be a much better passing team.

 

[Xanadu]

Very good point. I think part of it was the game plan, part of it was personnel management, and part of it is lack of talent.

Game plan: that’s the best DL we will face over the course of the next five years, maybe ten (book it). I think Venables wanted to force Dungey to throw because Dabo’s Plan was to gas us out in the fourth quarter (looks like he succeeded). It looks like Dino gambled and did not adjust to this and took what Clemson gave us. I think that’s a big part of it.

Personnel Management: we saw a lot more of Strickland than I was expecting. He’s just not a talented runner. Most of his good runs are on gaping holes or broken plays. I think he played more because Dino committed to winning through the air and eating clock with the short pass. Strickland was in there to block. When you do that the defense knows and they can focus solely on containing Dungey and keeping everything in front of them.

Talent: we know what we have. Just really surprised we didn’t play to our strengths in the run game. Seems like we gave up on it too early, didn’t maintain the necessary tempo, and were caught flat footed without an answer when the momentum shifted.

This isn’t a knock on Dino, the staff, or the team. Clemson is just that good, Dabo and his staff are just that good. This is an SU team that is a legit ten win candidate if they stay consistently good. I think they all had a great learning experience yesterday and I am excited to see how they grow from it.

 

[Crusty]

You can't run without a hole to go through. Clemson decided to stop our run game and they did. They wanted to make us beat them with our passing game. They bet they could play cover zero and match up our guys with their talented DB's.

We had 41 passing plays (63%) and only 24 rushing (37%). (BTW Clemson was 29 passing and 53 rushing.) This season we have rushed 234 times in 5 games for an average of 46.8 per game or 22 more rushing plays than yesterday. We are much more like a 2/3 rushing 1/3 passing team. (234/167 on the season)

Bear in mind that Dungey had only 11 yards on 13 carries for less than one yard average gain. So, it wasn't only our RBs.

Clemson's DLine was as good as advertised and the staff can't be criticized for taking what Clemson gave us - 250 passing yards on 41 attempts with 26 completions (63.4%) and 6.1 yard average gain. (Our average gain per completion is 7.4 on the season.)

So, Clemson gave us our average passing game and shut down our run game. I think that is the end of the story. Incidentally, by doing so, they held us to about 13 fewer plays - perhaps there is the extra drive we needed to win.

This was a case of their defense slowing down our offense and our defense keeping us in the game until the last few minutes. Great effort and nobody to blame. One play here or there and it is a different outcome.

 

[Entropic]

If I remember right Howard was hit multiple times behind the LOS but always got through the contact for positive yards. That to me is huge because it means even against NFL talent he can get yards after contact.

 

[Xanadu]

Let me take it a step further. Lots of people commented on that play, but let's dream for a moment that we had a living, breathing running game.

On the biggest stage of their careers, our 3 RB's combined for 28 yards. Let that sink in for a moment; 28 total yards. Split among our 3 RB's. I have seen some boxes that said 26 but I'll give them the lousy extra two yards.

That is only 4 yards more than our slot receiver rushed for in total and the distance that a high school basketball player has to run on a ONE end to end fast break.

Think about what might have been if they could have even tripled that number. 84 years would still have been putrid when combined among three guys but we could have extended who knows how many possessions. We could have given the D who knows how many more minutes of rest. We sure as he!! would have shortened the game by a lot more than 60 seconds and I don't need to tell anyone that we all wish the game would have ended 60 seconds sooner.

Even doubling a lousy 28 yards might have accomplished the same thing for all we know.

I can't recall too many times in the 60 years that I have been watching SU football (and I didn't start watching until I was 7) that we came up this small in the running game. I sure can't recall a game of this magnitude when we came up this small in the running game.

To me, that macro-issue was a much bigger story than the 2-3 individual plays that can always be pointed to in a close loss.

You can't run without a hole to go through. Clemson decided to stop our run game and they did. They wanted to make us beat them with our passing game. They bet they could play cover zero and match up our guys with their talented DB's.

We had 41 passing plays (63%) and only 24 rushing (37%). (BTW Clemson was 29 passing and 53 rushing.) This season we have rushed 234 times in 5 games for an average of 46.8 per game or 22 more rushing plays than yesterday. We are much more like a 2/3 rushing 1/3 passing team. (234/167 on the season)

Bear in mind that Dungey had only 11 yards on 13 carries for less than one yard average gain. So, it wasn't only our RBs.

Clemson's DLine was as good as advertised and the staff can't be criticized for taking what Clemson gave us - 250 passing yards on 41 attempts with 26 completions (63.4%) and 6.1 yard average gain. (Our average gain per completion is 7.4 on the season.)

So, Clemson gave us our average passing game and shut down our run game. I think that is the end of the story. Incidentally, by doing so, they held us to about 13 fewer plays - perhaps there is the extra drive we needed to win.

This was a case of their defense slowing down our offense and our defense keeping us in the game until the last few minutes. Great effort and nobody to blame. One play here or there and it is a different outcome.

Great post. Exactly what happened. Nothing you can do about it either.

 

[Bayside44]

Let me take it a step further. Lots of people commented on that play, but let's dream for a moment that we had a living, breathing running game.

On the biggest stage of their careers, our 3 RB's combined for 28 yards. Let that sink in for a moment; 28 total yards. Split among our 3 RB's. I have seen some boxes that said 26 but I'll give them the lousy extra two yards.

That is only 4 yards more than our slot receiver rushed for in total and the distance that a high school basketball player has to run on a ONE end to end fast break.

Think about what might have been if they could have even tripled that number. 84 years would still have been putrid when combined among three guys but we could have extended who knows how many possessions. We could have given the D who knows how many more minutes of rest. We sure as he!! would have shortened the game by a lot more than 60 seconds and I don't need to tell anyone that we all wish the game would have ended 60 seconds sooner.

Even doubling a lousy 28 yards might have accomplished the same thing for all we know.

I can't recall too many times in the 60 years that I have been watching SU football (and I didn't start watching until I was 7) that we came up this small in the running game. I sure can't recall a game of this magnitude when we came up this small in the running game.

To me, that macro-issue was a much bigger story than the 2-3 individual plays that can always be pointed to in a close loss.

Keep posting!

 

[Qbobby]

You can't run without a hole to go through. Clemson decided to stop our run game and they did. They wanted to make us beat them with our passing game. They bet they could play cover zero and match up our guys with their talented DB's.

We had 41 passing plays (63%) and only 24 rushing (37%). (BTW Clemson was 29 passing and 53 rushing.) This season we have rushed 234 times in 5 games for an average of 46.8 per game or 22 more rushing plays than yesterday. We are much more like a 2/3 rushing 1/3 passing team. (234/167 on the season)

Bear in mind that Dungey had only 11 yards on 13 carries for less than one yard average gain. So, it wasn't only our RBs.

Clemson's DLine was as good as advertised and the staff can't be criticized for taking what Clemson gave us - 250 passing yards on 41 attempts with 26 completions (63.4%) and 6.1 yard average gain. (Our average gain per completion is 7.4 on the season.)

So, Clemson gave us our average passing game and shut down our run game. I think that is the end of the story. Incidentally, by doing so, they held us to about 13 fewer plays - perhaps there is the extra drive we needed to win.

This was a case of their defense slowing down our offense and our defense keeping us in the game until the last few minutes. Great effort and nobody to blame. One play here or there and it is a different outcome.

Yep. They decided to take away something completely and bet we couldn't beat them through the air. And that decision was effective... and we came within maybe one play of winning anyhow. That's a future NFL defensive line we played against that said no running. How the hell short of Barry Sanders were we supposed to break that? We did what we had to do against that decision and probably should have won.

That's probably the best D line I can remember us playing in years, and may be many years before we play another like that. No shame in that crew shutting the run down.

 

[bigmike]

Picking up on an earlier post - you know, I'm wondering if the linebackers were just a bit gassed during that last drive, and whether spelling them earlier might have resulted in a different outcome. Boy, they played their hearts out - just wondering...

 

[Crusty]

Picking up on an earlier post - you know, I'm wondering if the linebackers were just a bit gassed during that last drive, and whether spelling them earlier might have resulted in a different outcome. Boy, they played their hearts out - just wondering...

Maybe, but Clemson had us figured out and adjusted their blocking at halftime. They scored 20 in the second half.

 

[shu 49]

Keep in mind also Clemson had 7-8 guys in box and got away with it cause we weren’t throwing war screens much to spread them out. They also blitzed a lot.the other thing I see is when Clemson started getting in trouble they stepped on the gas and got really aggressive. We get up in points and back off. Whyyyyyyyy. Screw being conservative. Had enough of that in the P years. I hated losing the way we lost. Now if we pulled out all the stops and lost I can handle that.

 

[PhatOrange]

Disappointed with Wards 4th and 6 call. Cover 2 zone weak. Pretty sure he rushed 3 dL plus a backer and dropped a DE in coverage, why? Weak Totally gutless, this is college, dial up the pressure in that situation.

 

[upperdeck]

i thought the opposite, i think with a new qb pressure made it easier on him, less thinking just one read and throw. he made a good throw. it happens.

 

[sdhall01]

Maybe, but Clemson had us figured out and adjusted their blocking at halftime. They scored 20 in the second half.

That's the thing, they are the third best team in the country right now. Although making fun of their coaches is a BLAST, they are really really good. I think they made some good halftime adjustments, which caused us some problems in the second half. Further, I think our LBs and DL were gassed in the 4th.

 

[PhatOrange]

i thought the opposite, i think with a new qb pressure made it easier on him, less thinking just one read and throw. he made a good throw. it happens.

He did make a good throw but that was his primary target and he had ALL DAY to throw it to him.

Things are a little different if he gets happy feet or is flushed from the pocket.