Rak vs. Coleman

[orangejunkie]

I commented on this after the game last night. Playing time for the 3 big guys may get squeezed. Boeheim was clearly frustrated after the game with the low productivity. How long is he going to go with players that don't produce on the court? The numbers for Rak and Coleman were awful. I'm sure he wants to avoid unhappy players on the team and possible transfers but how long will he go playing guys who don't really contribute. All he wants is rebounds. Keita had a monster game and he has consistently put up nice numbers since last year. Team is clearly better with him as anchor in the middle.

Team is also clearly better with two athletic bookend forwards, and with Roberson coming into the picture it will only get more crowded at the forward spot. How long will Boeheim go with Rak at power forward. That is clearly not his best position. It comes down to Rak vs. Coleman for time alongside Keita. I think he may make that decision after the early season games unless these guys wake up. One could be the odd man out...

 

[Lawrinson14]

My faith in those two is at an all time low. In all seriousness, when are we gonna get a legit big man coach? I'm tired of all the apologists saying that Hop is coaching these two. Whatever he's doing is not helping.

Thank god for Keita who plays with all heart.

 

[realorange]

My faith in those two is at an all time low. In all seriousness, when are we gonna get a legit big man coach? I'm tired of all the apologists saying that Hop is coaching these two. Whatever he's doing is not helping.

Thank god for Keita.

And who helped Kieta get to where he is now? Maybe the other two are slow learners. When DC makes the same mistakes over and over you have to wonder what is going on in his thought process. Roc plays a decent board game most of the times, but lets opposing players distract him too easily with a little pushing or grabbing. You'd thing somebody with his frame size would get an aggressive attitude and dominate. He needs a shrink more than an x and o coach.

 

[Lawrinson14]

And who helped Kieta get to where he is now? Maybe the other two are slow learners. When DC makes the same mistakes over and over you have to wonder what is going on in his thought process. Roc plays a decent board game most of the times, but lets opposing players distract him too easily with a little pushing or grabbing. You'd thing somebody with his frame size would get an aggressive attitude and dominate. He needs a shrink more than an x and o coach.

Keita plays with all heart. In all reality, he has no offensive game at all. He just hustles and gives 150% out there every time.

"Our big guys are watching too much,'' Boeheim said. "The other two guys are watching. You can't watch anymore. We can't wait for them. Last year, we could wait for them. We can't wait for them. They've got to produce. They've got to produce something, and rebounding and defense are the two things they've got to do. When we get them the ball, they've got to score down there. Simple as that.'' http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/08/syracuse_coach_jim_boeheim_rel.html

sounds like coach B is getting fed up too.

 

[orangejunkie]

I think the biggest disappointment for me during this Canadian trip was the minimal improvement the big guys have shown. I have been waiting for Coleman and Rak to demonstrate some of the potential they have and thought that after another off season of work they would show some of that in the preseason. The commentators made excuses for them in the first couple of games by stating that they are going up against undersized opponents. At some point you just have to play against the guys you're matched up against, no matter their size. Grant is a match up nightmare for the other team. He is too quick for guys his size and absolutely abused his undersized defenders at the end of the game.

 

[RF2044]

Rak is never going to be a scorer--he just isn't. That doesn't mean that he won't occasionally get putbacks, score in transition, or maybe knock down the occasional shot--but he's never going to be someone we can throw the ball in and expect him to score. But on the other hand, he shows flashes of being a quality rebounder, he's improved in terms of his defensive recognition, and he's a shot blocker.

Coleman hasn't shown much at all, sadly. I figured that the one thing he'd have over the other two is his ability to score in the paint, but he just get seem to get going against players his own size. I'm not confident in him as a defender. He isn't as good of a shot blocker as Rak. And while I think he has the raw materials to be a good rebounder, he just doesn't seem to get enough of them.

Keita is a finished product. I'm not remotely surprised that the kid played at Oak Hill, because he's looked "polished" from the moment he set foot on the hill. The moment is never too big for him--in large part because he played top notch competition, traveled, etc. even in high school. So when he got to college it was same old, same old. He's isn't going to generate low post scoring, but he can finish inside if his teammates set him up. Decent rebounder. More than adequate defender. Pretty good shot blocker. But perhaps most importantly, he's got JB's confidence--and hence will play a lot at crunch time.

 

[General20]

I think Rak is getting too much criticism. He does not have Keita's smarts (and I don't think he ever will) but he played hard and did some nice things.

The refs in Canada were bad, and for whatever reason Rak got the brunt of the bad calls.

There were quite a few times when Ennis drove the lane and made a difficult pass to Keita (which he inevitably fumbled) where I wished Christmas was in there to catch the ball and dunk it.

I came into this season very low on Rak, but I can't deny he has shown some improvement.

 

[SUSScuse]

I commented on this after the game last night. Playing time for the 3 big guys may get squeezed. Boeheim was clearly frustrated after the game with the low productivity. How long is he going to go with players that don't produce on the court? The numbers for Rak and Coleman were awful. I'm sure he wants to avoid unhappy players on the team and possible transfers but how long will he go playing guys who don't really contribute. All he wants is rebounds. Keita had a monster game and he has consistently put up nice numbers since last year. Team is clearly better with him as anchor in the middle.

Team is also clearly better with two athletic bookend forwards, and with Roberson coming into the picture it will only get more crowded at the forward spot. How long will Boeheim go with Rak at power forward. That is clearly not his best position. It comes down to Rak vs. Coleman for time alongside Keita. I think he may make that decision after the early season games unless these guys wake up. One could be the odd man out...

I'm sure Rak and Coleman got the message early in this game that they needed to produce.
JB pulled them both from the game early when they were struggling to rebound the ball.
I expect Roberson will get some time if he shows he can rebound and play a bit of defense.
JB always has the best five on the floor to end games as he showed at the end of this one.
It was obvious Ennis, Grant, Cooney, Kieta, and Gbinije were giving Carlton fits toward the end of the game on both ends of the floor.
I hope Rak can get it together by the end of the year and produce like we all wish a third year center would.
The way I like to think is that we made it to the final four last year with Kieta, Rak and Coleman and there is no reason we cant get there this year if we bringing in more talent to help down low.
I would love to see a little improvement in their collective offensive game.
Their defense is good and can get better as they already proved last year.

 

[realorange]

I think Rak is getting too much criticism. He does not have Keita's smarts (and I don't think he ever will) but he played hard and did some nice things.

The refs in Canada were bad, and for whatever reason Rak got the brunt of the bad calls.

There were quite a few times when Ennis drove the lane and made a difficult pass to Keita (which he inevitably fumbled) where I wished Christmas was in there to catch the ball and dunk it.

I came into this season very low on Rak, but I can't deny he has shown some improvement.

'Can't disagree he hasn't made some progress. But it bugs me that he can't maintain his focus and find some control with what he does. He has more upside to reach and I think he can do it. He just has to show me he really wants to do it.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Rak is never going to be a scorer--he just isn't. That doesn't mean that he won't occasionally get putbacks, score in transition, or maybe knock down the occasional shot--but he's never going to be someone we can throw the ball in and expect him to score. But on the other hand, he shows flashes of being a quality rebounder, he's improved in terms of his defensive recognition, and he's a shot blocker.

Coleman hasn't shown much at all, sadly. I figured that the one thing he'd have over the other two is his ability to score in the paint, but he just get seem to get going against players his own size. I'm not confident in him as a defender. He isn't as good of a shot blocker as Rak. And while I think he has the raw materials to be a good rebounder, he just doesn't seem to get enough of them.

Keita is a finished product. I'm not remotely surprised that the kid played at Oak Hill, because he's looked "polished" from the moment he set foot on the hill. The moment is never too big for him--in large part because he played top notch competition, traveled, etc. even in high school. So when he got to college it was same old, same old. He's isn't going to generate low post scoring, but he can finish inside if his teammates set him up. Decent rebounder. More than adequate defender. Pretty good shot blocker. But perhaps most importantly, he's got JB's confidence--and hence will play a lot at crunch time.

Baye plays smart.

 

[iommi]

My biggest issues are Coleman should get at least 8 rebounds a game and too often disappears for long stretches on the glass. Also, his habit of bringing the ball down. There is no excuse for that habit not to have been broken this offseason. Time for him to do wind sprints every time he does that in practice.

Roc doesn't have any offensive skills, except for his ups, although he seems to have tried to add a short jump shot. Roc has better hands than Coleman, but that is not saying much.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I commented on this after the game last night. Playing time for the 3 big guys may get squeezed. Boeheim was clearly frustrated after the game with the low productivity. How long is he going to go with players that don't produce on the court? The numbers for Rak and Coleman were awful. I'm sure he wants to avoid unhappy players on the team and possible transfers but how long will he go playing guys who don't really contribute. All he wants is rebounds. Keita had a monster game and he has consistently put up nice numbers since last year. Team is clearly better with him as anchor in the middle.

Team is also clearly better with two athletic bookend forwards, and with Roberson coming into the picture it will only get more crowded at the forward spot. How long will Boeheim go with Rak at power forward. That is clearly not his best position. It comes down to Rak vs. Coleman for time alongside Keita. I think he may make that decision after the early season games unless these guys wake up. One could be the odd man out...

The odd man out is going to be Coleman, IMO. He still has no idea how to play center in the zone, and if there's one thing that Coach Boeheim will not put up with, it's lousy interior defense. It's not like he's scoring anyway. His one offensive move is to lower the shoulder and charge, and I can't be the only one who is tired of seeing him pump fake a guy who is shorter and smaller than him.

The other alternative on offense, of course, is Rak's frequent missed dunks - which seem to be his favorite shot. But at least Rak sometimes plays well defensively. Keita is by far the best. He talks, he coaches out there, he really was teaching the guards what they needed to do. But you can't start him because we need to get what we can out of one of the other centers, and you need to protect Baye a bit from fouls.

 

[Ghost]

The odd man out is going to be Coleman, IMO. He still has no idea how to play center in the zone, and if there's one thing that Coach Boeheim will not put up with, it's lousy interior defense. It's not like he's scoring anyway. His one offensive move is to lower the shoulder and charge, and I can't be the only one who is tired of seeing him pump fake a guy who is shorter and smaller than him.

The other alternative on offense, of course, is Rak's frequent missed dunks - which seem to be his favorite shot. But at least Rak sometimes plays well defensively. Keita is by far the best. He talks, he coaches out there, he really was teaching the guards what they needed to do. But you can't start him because we need to get what we can out of one of the other centers, and you need to protect Baye a bit from fouls.

I agree with this, and what orangejunkie said - the most disappointing aspect of these games has been the lack of improvement on the offensive side by the bigs. I also agree that Coleman is setting himself up to be the odd man out. The lower the shoulder move is crap, and the going left and shooting at a 45 degree angle right handed w/ no lift could be blocked by a PG. It's odd because you see him get up sometimes on the offensive rebound, and then he just sort of shoots - no lift, doesn't go back up strong, just kind of bulls his way up (with a .5 inch vertical leap) and gets blocked - sometimes with a pump fake thrown in for fun.

Again, along the lines of what ithaca says, Baye could be the best options if he can maintain his play toward the end of last year. If he can catch the ball and lay it in, that may be the most we can hope for w/ Rak providing solid minutes as the starter - rebounding, blocking shots, and occasionally getting a put-back when he's not missing dunks. I don't know, I think Rak has some more for improvement, but not sure how much any more.

 

[Orangezoo]

agree with everyone. At this point- even though he is raw i would like to see what okoboh has if anything given coleman's struggle. I am not sure Coleman is a high major d-1 player mentally. He seems lost like dashonte was. He has so much heart- i want to see him succeed not continue to go out there and do what he is being advised not too. I think we run with rak and keita and coleman or okoboh as the emergency backup. I love how this team looks minus the lack of growth at the 5.

 

[iommi]

agree with everyone. At this point- even though he is raw i would like to see what okoboh has if anything given coleman's struggle. I am not sure Coleman is a high major d-1 player mentally. He seems lost like dashonte was. He has so much heart- i want to see him succeed not continue to go out there and do what he is being advised not too. I think we run with rak and keita and coleman or okoboh as the emergency backup. I love how this team looks minus the lack of growth at the 5.

Any concern at 2 guard?

 

[Orangezoo]

Any concern at 2 guard?

not yet- cooney i think showing his ability to be clutch at times gives me hope. Also silent G, Bj and Buss give us flexibility there. In a way reminds me of our ability to rotate Waiters and triche based on who was more effective. Also i think all the 2g's are willing to attack the rim ad get to the line. This is important to off-set not being lights out from 3. i think the 2g spot will become a strength as the year progresses.