Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio to Hall of Fame | Syracusefan.com

Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio to Hall of Fame

All of them were superior players. It's extremely hard to argue that they don't deserve to be selected. I'm sad Donny Baseball didn't make it, but these guys all deserve to be there.
 
next year:

griffey
piazza*
raines

bagwell close, but no cigar.

* opens up the Hall for the steroid guys...
 
KaiserUEO said:
next year:

griffey
piazza*
raines

bagwell close, but no cigar.

* opens up the Hall for the steroid guys...
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It's going to be hilarious when someone leaves Griffey off the ballot next year. Whoever does should lose their vote. Before he got injured, he was the best player I've ever seen.
 
jekelish said:
It's going to be hilarious when someone leaves Griffey off the ballot next year. Whoever does should lose their vote. Before he got injured, he was the best player I've ever seen.
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best position player in the last 35 years is easily Griffey.

maybe longer.
 
I do not understand why people assume Griffey did not use PEDs. Can we safely make that assumption about anyone? There is no evidence linking Piazza and Bagwell to PEDs, but people assume the opposite of them. Is it because Griffey has a slim build.? We now know that 180 pound relievers were using. I do not think the eye test is reliable.

Either ignore PEDs and vote everyone in or vote nobody from the era in. It is not fair to arbitrarily pick and choose.
 
I think Griffey was prob a little overrated, but obviously a no brainer HOF. Bonds was pretty much always a better player than Griffey.

(let the flame war begin, I feel like)

Very disappointed Piazza didn't make it, but next year he should be in.
 
Biggio in the HOF over Raines/Piazza is crazy.
The guy played 20 years, had 1 200 hit season, 7 all star seasons in 20 years. He played a long time and wasn't dominate half of his career and yet because he stayed around he gets in the HOF.

If I had a ballot this year
1. Pedro Martinez no doubt
2. Randy Johnson no doubt
3. John Smoltz 200 wins and 150 saves
4. Mike Piazza- best hitting C of alltime
5. Tim Raines- 2nd best lead off guy off all time
6. Barry Bonds- HOFer with his career thru 1998 when he started cheating after
7. Roger Clemons- the pitcher version of Bonds
8. Curt Schilling- he was dominant from 1993 thru 2006. He won 3 titles and was the best P on another WS team.
9. Mike Mussina- he pitched 60% of his starts in AL East parks and was good pretty much his whole career.

Edgar, Biggio, Trammell wouldn't get my votes.
 
Knicks411 said:
I think Griffey was prob a little overrated, but obviously a no brainer HOF. Bonds was pretty much always a better player than Griffey.

(let the flame war begin, I feel like)

Very disappointed Piazza didn't make it, but next year he should be in.
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Junior vs. Bonds IMO comes down to whether you followed the AL or NL. Before the sports package in the late 90's you didn't get to see all the games. I was an AL/Red Sox guy so I saw Junior more. Bonds was an all time great but I thought Junior was better till he went to Cincy and got hurt a lot in 2000.

Junior was the better defender IMO better arm, but Bonds had better OBP.
 
Biggio was a legit awesome player for a while though; playing in the astrodome killed his numbers. Agreed he hung around for a long time, which is probably why he made it, but he was really relaly good.

I'm cherry picking, but for a 7 year stretch (93-99) Biggio was fifth in the majors in WAR. (you can probably get the 4 guys in front of him, the guy directly behind him is a little more difficult)
 
Knicks411 said:
Biggio was a legit awesome player for a while though; playing in the astrodome killed his numbers. Agreed he hung around for a long time, which is probably why he made it, but he was really relaly good.

I'm cherry picking, but for a 7 year stretch (93-99) Biggio was fifth in the majors in WAR. (you can probably get the 4 guys in front of him, the guy directly behind him is a little more difficult)
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Biggio was good but just never oozed HOF. He was the Dustin Pedroia of his era and I don't think Pedroia is a HOFer.

Raines was clearly a better player than Biggio. Also how the heck is Jeff Kent who had better offense than Biggio get 14% and Biggio gets 82%
 
Alsacs said:
Biggio was good but just never oozed HOF. He was the Dustin Pedroia of his era and I don't think Pedroia is a HOFer.

Raines was clearly a better player than Biggio. Also how the heck is Jeff Kent who had better offense than Biggio get 14% and Biggio gets 82%
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Interesting. I think Pedroia is an incredible player. Think he has a HOF peak, let's see how he ages.

Biggio was really hurt because A) he played in the astrodome, and B) he had a broad cross set of skills. I think there was a year where he played 162 games and didn't ground into a double play. Small thing, but one of the areas where Biggio excelled. Also, the HBP's aren't sexy but they count. His 1997 season is pretty incredible. 319/415/501 from second base. Didn't miss a game.
 
Knicks411 said:
Interesting. I think Pedroia is an incredible player. Think he has a HOF peak, let's see how he ages.

Biggio was really hurt because A) he played in the astrodome, and B) he had a broad cross set of skills. I think there was a year where he played 162 games and didn't ground into a double play. Small thing, but one of the areas where Biggio excelled. Also, the HBP's aren't s e xy but they count. His 1997 season is pretty incredible. 319/415/501 from second base. Didn't miss a game.
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Meh I just think he got in for playing 20 years and compiling and not being elite. I think somebody like Don Mattingly who doesn't have the years was a better/dominant player than Biggio.
Also Jeff Kent was just as a good and doesn't come close. Kent hit like a 1b playing 2b during the same era as Biggio.
 
Alsacs said:
Meh I just think he got in for playing 20 years and compiling and not being elite. I think somebody like Don Mattingly who doesn't have the years was a better/dominant player than Biggio.
Also Jeff Kent was just as a good and doesn't come close. Kent hit like a 1b playing 2b during the same era as Biggio.
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I agree with your first sentence, he probably did get in because he played for so long, but I think if he had retired a few years earlier, he would have been just as qualified and i'd probably be bitching that he didn't make it.

You can say he wasn't elite, but for a 7 year stretch (that i cherry picked, I know), by WAR, hew was one of the 5 best players in the game. You can't say the same for Mattingly. (over 5, you probably can. I'd have to check). thats pretty elite to me
 
Not understanding how Smoltz makes it on first try and Schilling and Mussina who have similar if not better numbers don't.

God I hate sports writers who play ing god to these players
 
Knicks411 said:
I agree with your first sentence, he probably did get in because he played for so long, but I think if he had retired a few years earlier, he would have been just as qualified and i'd probably be bitching that he didn't make it. You can say he wasn't elite, but for a 7 year stretch (that i cherry picked, I know), by WAR, hew was one of the 5 best players in the game. You can't say the same for Mattingly. (over 5, you probably can. I'd have to check). thats pretty elite to me
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If biggio retired before he reached 3000 hits there's no way he'd get in. 3000 hits is why he got in. Very good player but not HOF, he just hung around long enough to reach 3000 which is an automatic.

Piazza not getting in is a joke. Haven't looked at Raines stats but off the top of my head i wouldn't think he's a hall of famer. Kent should be in, nobody put up those #s for a 2nd baseman.
 
CorduroyG said:
If biggio retired before he reached 3000 hits there's no way he'd get in. 3000 hits is why he got in. Very good player but not HOF, he just hung around long enough to reach 3000 which is an automatic.

Piazza not getting in is a joke. Haven't looked at Raines stats but off the top of my head i wouldn't think he's a hall of famer. Kent should be in, nobody put up those #s for a 2nd baseman.
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Not sure I made my point well, but I agree he got in for 3,000 hits mainly. But I'm saying if he hadn't gotten the 3,000 hits, I would still think he was probably just as qualified. I think the guy was a legit star player for a long time, his basic stats don't scream that out, but he played in a terrible park for hitters and he excelled at the little things. Random stat I read in one of the historical abstracts; in 97 he had 744 PA, was hit by 34 pitches, and grounded into 0 double plays. (mentioned it earlier in the thread, but have the exact numbers now) He had a 6 or 7 year stretch where he was one of the 6 or 7 best players in the game.

Piazza of course should be in. Raines should probably be in too, really good player for a long time, and a legit superstar for about 5 or 6. From 83 to 87 the only players with more WAR than him were Boggs, Rickey, and Ripken.
 
Griffey Jr., Jeter, T Mac, Kurt Warner etc. my lifetimes been blessed with some truly cool professional athletes.

I didn't know a kid in elementary school who didn't want to be Ken Griffey Jr.
 
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