Ranking the Champions

[omniorange]

ESPN has an article out ranking all the champions.

Where does 2018 Villanova rank among all the national championship teams?

Here are how this century's rank would look according to them (and where they placed overall):

Kentucky - 2012 (16)
Duke - 2001 (24)
Kansas - 2008 (27)
North Carolina - 2009 (30)
Florida - 2007 (31)
Nova - 2018 (32)
North Carolina - 2005 (33)
Maryland - 2002 (37)
Duke - 2015 (39)
Louisville - 2013 (42)
North Carolina - 2017 (43)
Nova - 2016 (45)
Syracuse - 2003 (47)
Duke - 2010 (49)
UConn - 2004 (50)
Michigan State - 2000 (52)
Florida - 2006 (54)
UConn - 2011 (58)
UConn - 2014 (59)

I dreaded looking at the list because it seems to me that our 2003 NC isn't highly regarded, but was pleasantly surprised to see it in the upper two thirds, with six less highly regarded.

List may also appear to help support the contention that with a healthy Onuaku we might have won our second in 2010. I, personally, think the notion that our 2012 team with Fab would have won in 2012 isn't likely (and the list above would seem to think it wouldn't have happened either), but it's all conjecture in either case. At the end of the day, we still only have 1 NC. It is what it is.

Note: UConn's 1999 team placed overall at 21 (for those who may want to deride the Huskies standings in the above list). I know, I can be such a buzzkill.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Eric15]

ESPN has an article out ranking all the champions.

Where does 2018 Villanova rank among all the national championship teams?

Here are how this century's rank would look according to them (and where they placed overall):

Kentucky - 2012 (16)
Duke - 2001 (24)
Kansas - 2008 (27)
North Carolina - 2009 (30)
Florida - 2007 (31)
Nova - 2018 (32)
North Carolina - 2005 (33)
Maryland - 2002 (37)
Duke - 2015 (39)
Louisville - 2013 (42)
North Carolina - 2017 (43)
Nova - 2016 (45)
Syracuse - 2003 (47)
Duke - 2010 (49)
UConn - 2004 (50)
Michigan State - 2000 (52)
Florida - 2006 (54)
UConn - 2011 (58)
UConn - 2014 (59)

I dreaded looking at the list because it seems to me that our 2003 NC isn't highly regarded, but was pleasantly surprised to see it in the upper two thirds, with six less highly regarded.

List may also appear to help support the contention that with a healthy Onuaku we might have won our second in 2010. I, personally, think the notion that our 2012 team with Fab would have won in 2012 isn't likely (and the list above would seem to think it wouldn't have happened either), but it's all conjecture in either case. At the end of the day, we still only have 1 NC. It is what it is.

Note: UConn's 1999 team placed overall at 21 (for those who may want to deride the Huskies standings in the above list). I know, I can be such a buzzkill.

Cheers,
Neil

Overall this list is good. I would move 2008 Kansas down a few notches, definitely behind 2009 UNC which was an incredible college team. UConn 2004 is probably too low, as well.

 

[Brooky03]

They have this year's Nova team too high, but that's just typical recency bias. Otherwise, there's not much to take issue with.

And yes, with a healthy Onuaku, there was nobody in that tournament who could have stopped us except maybe Louisville ( I recall them just having our number that year). Put Purdue and MSU at full strength that year and we still would have won going away if/when we faced either. Butler had arguably the best luck ever in the NCAAT, facing power teams with critical injuries before the tournament. Duke was lackluster in 2010. I'd be tempted to rank them even lower.

 

[Eric15]

And yes, with a healthy Onuaku, there was nobody in that tournament who could have stopped us except maybe Louisville ( I recall them just having our number that year).

Honest question: do people forget how good Kentucky and Kansas were that season? Kentucky went 35-3 and had Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe among others. We would have probably been slight underdogs to Kentucky on a neutral court even with AO.

 

[jec1521]

Honest question: do people forget how good Kentucky and Kansas were that season? Kentucky went 35-3 and had Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe among others. We would have probably been slight underdogs to Kentucky on a neutral court even with AO.

They didn't even make the final four though...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honest question: do people forget how good Kentucky and Kansas were that season? Kentucky went 35-3 and had Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe among others. We would have probably been slight underdogs to Kentucky on a neutral court even with AO.

KenPom disagrees. We would have been the favorite over them. Not to mention we never would have played them since they lost to WVU in the dome.

 

[OrangeDW]

Recency bias. Kentucky 2012 is the only team this decade that should be anywhere near the top half. The overall trend is the recent teams are not as good as the older teams - with a few exceptions. 2006 Florida, 2004 UConn, and 2003 Syracuse are all better than 2018 Nova, 2017 UNC, 2016 Nova, 2015 Duke, and 2013 Louisville.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Overall this list is good. I would move 2008 Kansas down a few notches, definitely behind 2009 UNC which was an incredible college team. UConn 2004 is probably too low, as well.

I think I may actually have KU at the very top. That was a great, great college team that destroyed essentially the same UNC team that won the title the next year. I think they suffere somewhat because theyre most visible player at the next level was Mario Chalmers.

I also think they underrated 2000 Michigan State. Another great college team that won every tournament game by ten plus (sad face).

I think theyre pretty spot on with where they have 2014 and 2011 UConn.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The 2008 Kansas team had the best KenPom efficiency rating ever.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The thing with the 2010 Kentucky team was they could not shoot at all. Great season, but I think we beat them by 10 plus. There's no way that team with Wall and Bledsoe was making enough 3's to beat us had we ever played them.

 

[Eric15]

They didn't even make the final four though...

Neither did Louisville in the post I was responding to (they lost in the first round). So I assumed he was referring to the entire field.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The thing with the 2010 Kentucky team was they could not shoot at all. Great season, but I think we beat them by 10 plus. There's no way that team with Wall and Bledsoe was making enough 3's to beat us had we ever played them.

The only team that worried me was Kansas.

 

[Brooky03]

Honest question: do people forget how good Kentucky and Kansas were that season? Kentucky went 35-3 and had Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe among others. We would have probably been slight underdogs to Kentucky on a neutral court even with AO.

I remember a young and sloppy Kentucky team. We might've been Vegas underdogs, but we were objectively better. Senior Onuaku vs. Cousins would be advantage Onuaku. Wall would've been tough to handle because of his ability to penetrate and his size, but Bledsoe wasn't scary.

 

[Eric15]

Senior Onuaku vs. Cousins would be advantage Onuaku.

I love AO. I saw him at the Georgetown game and talked to him for awhile, but this board is the only place on Earth where people would think that. If AO was better than an All-American and the upcoming 5th pick in the NBA draft, he wouldn't be 7th in minutes played on that 2010 SU team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is such a stupid argument. The same metrics Vegas uses to decide point spreads would have 2010 Syracuse favored over Kentucky and we have people going back in time saying Kentucky would be favored because they had NBA players.

This would be like saying this years Duke team would have been favored over Villanova when in reality Nova would have been a 4-5 point favorite over everyone in the field.

 

[Knicks411]

Overall this list is good. I would move 2008 Kansas down a few notches, definitely behind 2009 UNC which was an incredible college team. UConn 2004 is probably too low, as well.

2008 kansas was a killer team (obviously UNC was too). They finished #2 in offense and #1 in defense. That's amazing.

 

[Eric15]

2008 kansas was a killer team (obviously UNC was too). They finished #2 in offense and #1 in defense. That's amazing.

I didn't realize that they had those kind of metrics. I always just kind of mentally associated them with backing into a championship due to Memphis missing free throws.

 

[Knicks411]

This is such a stupid argument. The same metrics Vegas uses to decide point spreads would have 2010 Syracuse favored over Kentucky and we have people going back in time saying Kentucky would be favored because they had NBA players.

This would be like saying this years Duke team would have been favored over Villanova when in reality Nova would have been a 4-5 point favorite over everyone in the field.

I just pulled down the Ken pom ratings before the tourny started in 2010, We were 3rd, Kentucky was all the way down at 8. Would not have guessed that. (Also worth pointing out those same metrics would have 2010 Duke favored over 2010 Cuse, but good luck with that argument here)

Agree Nova would've been favored over Duke, I don't think it would've been that high though.

 

[Knicks411]

I didn't realize that they had those kind of metrics. I always just kind of mentally associated them with backing into a championship due to Memphis missing free throws.

Well i guess they kinda did, but still, incredible team.

 

[Brooky03]

I love AO. I saw him at the Georgetown game and talked to him for awhile, but this board is the only place on Earth where people would think that. If AO was better than an All-American and the upcoming 5th pick in the NBA draft, he wouldn't be 7th in minutes played on that 2010 SU team.

Not a better talent. Better in that matchup. Cousins scored more (7 points more per 40 minutes) but Onuaku was a full 10 percentage points better from the field. Onuaku gave up 2 inches to Cousins but was easily as strong, if not stronger, and had the more polished post game at that point. Cousins would have been handling Onuaku one-on-one when we were on offense. Against our zone, Cousins would constantly have a weak side defender lurking to contest/block his shot, and all of our forwards that year were good at the rim on D. Cousins was not a good passer, either.

Patrick Patterson would have been the more worrisome guy at that point due to the combo of his size and jump shot, imo.

 

[OttoMets]

This part tells me all I need to know:

"Duke - 2010 (49)
UConn - 2004 (50)
Michigan State - 2000 (52)
Florida - 2006 (54)"

This type of list is goofy anyway. (Maybe fun, but ultimately goofy.) But any list that puts Duke's 2010 team ahead of those other three should go straight to the trash. Other than the Connecticut flukes, that was the weakest title team of my lifetime. And those Michigan State and Connecticut teams were borderline dominant. What a joke.

 

[Trueblue25]

Lol you can’t overrate freshman Carmelo Anthony. He’s almost inarguably the greatest one and done in history. I’d believe him, g mac, hak and billy get it done against most anyone in that game.

 

[OttoMets]

I love AO. I saw him at the Georgetown game and talked to him for awhile, but this board is the only place on Earth where people would think that. If AO was better than an All-American and the upcoming 5th pick in the NBA draft, he wouldn't be 7th in minutes played on that 2010 SU team.

Onuaku also had a history of struggling with the dominant bigs he faced. Blair, Hibbert, the big stiff at UConn...he kind of disappeared in those games. Granted, most of them happened before the team started to give effort on defense in his senior year. But I don't think he'd have had any advantage over Cousins.

Anyway, I hate the "if only AO" talk...Butler wasn't that good, the field was wide-open, and the team crapped the bed.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

This part tells me all I need to know:

"Duke - 2010 (49)
UConn - 2004 (50)
Michigan State - 2000 (52)
Florida - 2006 (54)"

This type of list is goofy anyway. (Maybe fun, but ultimately goofy.) But any list that puts Duke's 2010 team ahead of those other three should go straight to the trash. Other than the Connecticut flukes, that was the weakest title team of my lifetime. And those Michigan State and Connecticut teams were borderline dominant. What a joke.

Agreed.

2010 Duke belongs right at the bottom with 2011 and 2014 uconn no question those are the 3 worst. 2004 uconn is way higher don't think they are the best but are in a discussion for it.

2008 KU should have lost that game Self should have 0 I don't get why they are so high.

 

[Knicks411]

Like I said, good luck with the Duke 2010 being good takes here.

I dunno though, #1 in Ken Pom, #1 in offense, #5 in defense. Seems pretty good to me.