Re-watched the Notre Dame game

[CuseOnly]

and I specifically watched the bubble screen plays that ND was successful with. The primary blocker was #20 and he basically held on almost every play and got away with it.

Corner trying to shed the block and pursue and all I could see every play was stretched jersey being held. Also, both hands outside of the shoulders holding the pads.

Apparently that is legal for ND but not for SU as the one time our blocker did that he was flagged.

Was pretty much atrocious, obvious and never called. "Luck" of the Irish.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

and I specifically watched the bubble screen plays that ND was successful with. The primary blocker was #20 and he basically held on almost every play and got away with it.

Corner trying to shed the block and pursue and all I could see every play was stretched jersey being held. Also, both hands outside of the shoulders holding the pads.

Apparently that is legal for ND but not for SU as the one time our blocker did that he was flagged.

Was pretty much atrocious, obvious and never called. "Luck" of the Irish.

Get over it. The Refs didn't lose the game.

 

[CanadianSU]

Get over it. The Refs didn't lose the game.

Thats debatable.

 

[cuseguy]

Kind of surprised there wasn't more uproar over the botched call before the half that would have cut ND's lead to 4.

Worst call of the game.

 

[Doctor44]

It was more lost because we tried to guard 3 WRs to one side with a corner 7 yards off, a safety 12 yards off and a blitzing outside LB. 3 WRs on 2 DBs wins every time.

 

[TheCusian]

and I specifically watched the bubble screen plays that ND was successful with. The primary blocker was #20 and he basically held on almost every play and got away with it.

Corner trying to shed the block and pursue and all I could see every play was stretched jersey being held. Also, both hands outside of the shoulders holding the pads.

Apparently that is legal for ND but not for SU as the one time our blocker did that he was flagged.

Was pretty much atrocious, obvious and never called. "Luck" of the Irish.

You're right. Re-watching now. Crazy holds.

Reddish turns to the officials like 3 times asking for call.

 

[CuseOnly]

Get over it. The Refs didn't lose the game.

I never said the refs lost the game for us. We clearly lost the game as we were out manned from the start.

There could have been a holding call on #20 every play they ran a bubble screen and it was ignored. Refs are taught to call holding when the blockers hands are outside the body. His hands were outside the body every stinking play. Refs didn't call it on them but called it on us.

 

[Chris02M]

Kind of surprised there wasn't more uproar over the botched call before the half that would have cut ND's lead to 4.

Worst call of the game.

bad rule but called correctly

 

[CuseOnly]

Funnier thing is that ND is not an up tempo team and they were faster than our "UP-TEMPO" turbo offense with their traditional play calling style from Kelly.

No giant boards, no pictures, no crazy looking back at the sideline, not much other dumb Sh*& that we do and they still ran a faster offense and caught our defense off guard.

 

[Chris02M]

Funnier thing is that ND is not an up tempo team and they were faster than our "UP-TEMPO" turbo offense with their traditional play calling style from Kelly.

No giant boards, no pictures, no crazy looking back at the sideline, not much other dumb Sh*& that we do and they still ran a faster offense and caught our defense off guard.

I think that was by design trying to keep nd's offense off the field

 

[SUFan44]

bad rule but called correctly

Here's where I disagree. It was called correctly based on what happened, but what happened never should have. The whistle NEVER should have blown. The fact that referees continue to blow potential fumbles dead is gregarious and absolutely awful. It completely changes the complex of every game that it happens in. They have been taught, with the advent of replay, to NOT blow the whistle. Yet these particular referees - and others around the country both in NCAA and NFL football - continued to do so.

I'd also like to say that there were MULTIPLE spots during the game that were questionable at best. And 9 times out of 10, the spot favored ND.

Nobody is saying the referees won the game or lost the game - but Notre Dame didn't need any help from the referees to beat us.

 

[CuseOnly]

With regard to the non-spike fumble rule and replay in general.

If you are going to use replay, it should always be with the intent to get a play right. Regardless of what was called on the field and as this game showed, the calls on the field were 90% wrong.

If you can go back to look at actually what happened, get it right. If you can go back to the tape to change something as simple as the spot of the ball, doesn't it stand to reason that you should be able to go back and correct far more substantial things.

Why can't you go back and correct when a whistle was blown and shouldn't have been and give reasonable continuation of a play?

 

[CuseOnly]

I think that was by design trying to keep nd's offense off the field

If that is the case, they should huddle and really waste the clock. Best way to keep thier offense off the field would be to sustain drives and score. Catching their defense off guard would have helped do that.

As a matter of fact, have we caught a defense off guard at all this year? I don't recall seeing that. I also don't remember us running more than ~80 plays in our turbo offense.

 

[upperdeck]

Here is a question.. every play is supposed to be getting reviewed. the coaches review is just to be used when they dont think the review process is being done fast enough.. but the review guy has replay and if you arent willing to at least review spots that make or break first downs what are you really doing up there the rest of the time?

the spots in question the TV showed replays of the bad spots even if the announcers didnt mention it. there was plenty of time to see them 2-3 times up stairs if you are staying on top of the plays.. perhaps they have been told not to review those calls unless asked?

 

[sufandu]

bad rule but called correctly

Except the refs should swallow the whistle and let the play play out.

 

[TheCusian]

If that is the case, they should huddle and really waste the clock. Best way to keep thier offense off the field would be to sustain drives and score. Catching their defense off guard would have helped do that.

As a matter of fact, have we caught a defense off guard at all this year? I don't recall seeing that. I also don't remember us running more than ~80 plays in our turbo offense.

CMU and MD we had 79 plays on O.

 

[TheCusian]

Some other crazy stats:

We are 4th in the ACC in yards per game (behind just NC State, Clemson, FSU - all in our division).
We are 5th in yards per play at 6.11.
The 294 yards vs ND : the most passing yards out of the 4 games
All purpose yards: 1st, Gulley with 333 / 2nd, Hunt with 299 / 3rd, Erv the Swerve Phillips with 293

As I've mentioned in other threads - we've given up one sack in 4 games. GTech is next with 3 sacks in 4 games.

There a bunch of awful stats, like 10th in Redzone efficiency. Lots more.

 

[CousCuse]

Except the refs should swallow the whistle and let the play play out.

Seems worse intent than that to me. There has to be a referee handbook that spells out what the procedure for an intentionally spiked ball to stop the clock. The ref saw he fumbled the snap , he is standing right behind him starring at the QB, but he blew the whistle because he fumbled the ball.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Get over it. The Refs didn't lose the game.

You know, I've been saying the same thing but rewatching the game I'm not so sure.

Teams function differently under pressure and with confidence. ND was already shook being on the big stage, if the halftime play doesn't get botched it's 14-10 at half. If the refs call the pass interference on Estime our first drive after half it's 14-10 with us having a first down deep in ND territory and going for the lead. You think ND doesn't tighten up down 17-14 vs being up 14-3 with free reign of the place? Does Golson complete 25 straight passes if the refs are calling holds on their screens? He got smacked around during that game and you could see in his face he wasn't loving it. He had that Geno Smith @ the Carrier Dome face going a bit. How about the non PI call at the goal line on that Ishmael didn't get? The announcers even called that out. There were a lot of big plays that the refs took off the board for us.

 

[sufandu]

Seems worse intent than that to me. There has to be a referee handbook that spells out what the procedure for an intentionally spiked ball to stop the clock. The ref saw he fumbled the snap , he is standing right behind him starring at the QB, but he blew the whistle because he fumbled the ball.

That wasn't the case at all. Everyone knew a spike was coming and it was an anticipation whistle. It should be a lesson to not anticipate something and let it play out.

 

[CU44SE]

I will say the spots were consistently favorable to ND all night. I never really saw favorable spots for us. However almost every time, especially on close first down plays a ND player would be down a yard or two before the spot but the refs would come running in to mark the ball where the ND player slid too.

 

[CousCuse]

You know, I've been saying the same thing but rewatching the game I'm not so sure.

Teams function differently under pressure and with confidence. ND was already shook being on the big stage, if the halftime play doesn't get botched it's 14-10 at half. If the refs call the pass interference on Estime our first drive after half it's 14-10 with us having a first down deep in ND territory and going for the lead. You think ND doesn't tighten up down 17-14 vs being up 14-3 with free reign of the place? Does Golson complete 25 straight passes if the refs are calling holds on their screens? He got smacked around during that game and you could see in his face he wasn't loving it. He had that Geno Smith @ the Carrier Dome face going a bit. How about the non PI call at the goal line on that Ishmael didn't get? The announcers even called that out. There were a lot of big plays that the refs took off the board for us.

You are correct sir.. If we just got the Ishmael call and get 1st and 10 at the 11+- , and go on to score , it would have been 28-22 midfourth quarter. With a real chance to win.

 

[CousCuse]

That wasn't the case at all. Everyone knew a spike was coming and it was an anticipation whistle. I should be a lesson to not anticipate something and let it play out.

Don't referee's take classes and study tapes over and over to become accredited to be able to have set down steps to award a spike timeout ? Yes , they do. They are not guys in the stands , they are trained professionals and should be critiqued as such.

 

[sufandu]

Don't referee's take classes and study tapes over and over to become accredited to be able to have set down steps to award a spike timeout ? Yes , they do. They are not guys in the stands , they are trained professionals and should be critiqued as such.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not giving them a pass on making a mistake. They absolutely did by blowing the whistle too early. They just didn't do it intentionally to give Notre Dame the advantage, as you suggest.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I thought it was the other official behind the line who blew the whistle, not the ref. He's the guy who comes running in towards Golson and I think the issue is that officials are also trying to protect the QB from taking a hit. The angle that this official would have had might have made it tough to see that the ball was loose and not cleanly spiked.