Reason #811 why managers in baseball are overrated

[PoppyHart]

The Red Sox signed top target John Farrell, currently under contract with a division foe, in exchange for Mike Aviles, the 31 year utilityman with 39 HRs and 190 RBI to his name. (Oh, and they also gave up a meaningless pitcher.)

You're more likely to encounter a black swan than a great baseball manager

 

[bevosu]

Jim Leyland or Joe Maddon could manage my team any day.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The Red Sox signed top target John Farrell, currently under contract with a division foe, in exchange for Mike Aviles, the 31 year utilityman with 39 HRs and 190 RBI to his name. (Oh, and they also gave up a meaningless pitcher.)

You're more likely to encounter a black swan than a great baseball manager

Orioles with Davy Johnson & Buck Showalter disprove your point.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[PoppyHart]

Sure, Leyland may win his 2nd title in the coming days, but he's also a career .503 manager, and after 3,335 games, I'd say that's enough of a track record to judge him.

Showalter has won 51.4% of his regular season games, and nary a postseason series.

Maddon .516 and Johnson a much more respectable .564.

Managing is like being a commercial pilot. You always hear people talking about what a "great" job the captain did in landing the plane, but they're just doing what's expected of them, and it's virtually impossible to distinguish their talents.

 

[Marsh01]

So Phil Jackson is a great coach then because he coached Jordan and Kobe in their primes? Hell mike dantoni would have won 5 rings with that crew. You can say that about any coach if you want too.

 

[bevosu]

I'll admit that it isn't easy to judge how good a manager is...but a lot depends on who you're managing. W-L doesn't tell the whole story.

Look at Joe Torre's record before he managed the Yankees. The Mets, the Braves, the Cardinals. Funny how his W-L record improved once he hooked up with the Yankees.

 

[Cowtown]

I wouldn't be unhappy with Ron Gardenhire. And I don't care what the numbers are.

 

[mountaincuse]

I'm guessing OrangePA doesn't read this board - he would have jumped all over this thread if he did.

 

[PoppyHart]

So what would a Maddon or Gardenhire fetch in a trade, assuming they were under contract?

 

[skurey]

So Phil Jackson is a great coach then because he coached Jordan and Kobe in their primes? Hell mike dantoni would have won 5 rings with that crew. You can say that about any coach if you want too.

1. You should have said Shaq instead of Kobe, as he's the one that carried the Lakers.

2. There's a reason they are called basketball coaches and baseball managers. Coaches actually coach, drawing up plays, making subs, etc you know all that. Baseball managers make the lineup and bring in bullpen relief. It's extremely different.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

1. You should have said Shaq instead of Kobe, as he's the one that carried the Lakers.

2. There's a reason they are called basketball coaches and baseball managers. Coaches actually coach, drawing up plays, making subs, etc you know all that. Baseball managers make the lineup and bring in bullpen relief. It's extremely different.

Ahh yes. All that baseball managers do is make a lineup and bring in relievers. Stick to posting about whatever other sports you actually know anything about.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm under the impression that managers lose more games than they win. The better ones know when to hold em and know when to fold em but to be honest you need talent just like any sport.

 

[Knicks411]

So Phil Jackson is a great coach then because he coached Jordan and Kobe in their primes? Hell mike dantoni would have won 5 rings with that crew. You can say that about any coach if you want too.

I think Phil is an awesome coach, and when you look at what happened towards the end of his run in LA, I'm not convinced that anyone would've won a ton of rings with those guys. The guy is a master manipulator of huge egos.

In baseball though, I think I agree with the OP. Of the three major sports (sorry hockey, I don't follow it too much) I'd say coaches/managers are most important in football, then basketall, then baseball.

 

[PoppyHart]

Last night's Game 7 was the most critical game of the year and, after filling out the lineup, Bochy really only had one decision ... when to take out Cain. Granted, in true managerial fashion, he overmanaged and used 5 pitchers in a 9-0 rout.

In baseball, a manager on a decent team can probably sleepwalk through 15+% of the team's games, especially if you have an ace like Verlander. Basketball coaches rarely, and football coaches almost never, have that luxury.

 

[skurey]

Ahh yes. All that baseball managers do is make a lineup and bring in relievers. Stick to posting about whatever other sports you actually know anything about.

Are you by chance a baseball manager?

 

[NineOneSeven]

1. You should have said Shaq instead of Kobe, as he's the one that carried the Lakers.

2. There's a reason they are called basketball coaches and baseball managers. Coaches actually coach, drawing up plays, making subs, etc you know all that. Baseball managers make the lineup and bring in bullpen relief. It's extremely different.

You're right. At no point do managers have any say in when to steal, when to pitch out, when to bring the infield in, when to play a pull hitter, when to have the outfielders play deep, when to pinch hit, when to hit and run, when to green light on 3-0, etc...

 

[skurey]

Yeah and none of those things remotely compare to what coaches in other sports do.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah and none of those things remotely compare to what coaches in other sports do.

Fair enough. Just want to clarify there are more technicalities than you mentioned.

 

[skurey]

Alright I can agree to that. There also are some managers who actually do know a lot about hitting mechanics or pitching or something but most of the time it's left up to those other coaches.

 

[kirbivore]

I think Phil is an awesome coach, and when you look at what happened towards the end of his run in LA, I'm not convinced that anyone would've won a ton of rings with those guys. The guy is a master manipulator of huge egos.

Phil was great at taking talented teams and getting them over the top. Doug Collins and Del Harris could only take those Bulls and Lakers teams so far. That's why I think any talk of Jackson to the Knicks is insane. That team is nowhere near a title.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

The argument over whether baseball managers do anything besides create a line-up and change pitchers is like when people unfamiliar with Syracuse basketball say that JB doesn't know how to coach defense because we play a 2-3 zone.

 

[PoppyHart]

In other news, former genius Ozzie Guillen, who was traded for two long shot minor league prospects and then signed to a 4 year, $10 million deal, was summarily removed from his duties.

Rumors are now circulating that Jim Harbaugh may be headed to Kansas City for a 7th round draft pick.