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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 1810948, member: 289"] WILL CLARK and RAFAEL PALMEIRO were pals once. At least they were teammates at Mississippi State, where they were known as “Thunder and Lightning”. Thunder was the second overall pick in the 1985 draft and became a Giant while Lightening was #22 and became a Cub. In the early years, there was little doubt as to who was the better player. Through 1989, Clark had hit .304 with 98 home runs with 352 RBIs and 361 runs scored and become the star player of the Giants, leading them to the 1989 World Series. Palmeiro by that time had hit .287 with 33 homers 143 RBIs and 192 runs scored. He’d been traded by the Cubs to the Rangers, (and they won the division the next year). But then, like a balloon that finally has enough hot air in it, Palmeiro’s numbers began to rise. For the next three years they were comparable players. Thunder hit .299 with 64 homers, 284 RBIs and 244 runs scored. Lightning hit .303 with 62 homers, 262 RBIs and 271 runs scored. Then the balloon headed for the skies while Thunder remained earthbound. Clark developed a series of nagging injuries, including bone chips in his elbow, that didn’t initially cost him that many games but robbed him of his power. He became that rarity: a contact-hitting first baseman. Meanwhile Palmeiro became on the premiere power hitters in the majors. From 1993 on, Clark hit an impressive .307 but with only 122 home runs in 8 years, with 569 RBIs and 581 runs scored. Palmeiro, in his remaining 13 seasons, hit .285 but with 474 homers, 1,430 RBIs and 1,200 runs scored. He hit over 40 home runs four times and at least 37 homers six other times. Clark won a Gold Glove but Palmeiro won 3 of them. Strangely, Clark was a 6 time all-star but Palmeiro was only an All-Star four times. Lightning had literally twice as many homers for his career at Thunder, (569-284) and had 630 more RBIs and 480 more runs scored. Per 162 games: WC .303BA 178H 77W 98S 36D 4T 23HR 5SB 99RBI 97RS 373 bases, 173 runs RP .288BA 173H 77W 77S 33D 2T 33HR 6SB 105RBI 95RS 392 bases, 167 runs Despite flashier home run numbers and the longer career for Palmeiro, they really were similarly potent offensive players. Jenkinson doesn’t mention Clark and lists Palmeiro in his “honorable mention” next to his list of the top 100 sluggers but otherwise ignores him, despite his 569 home runs. Bill James rates Will Clark the 14th best first baseman ever and Palmeiro #19 and takes the time to explain why. “Will Clark was a truly great player, in my opinion, from 1987-1992 when he was with the Giants. The numbers aren’t nearly as big then as they are now and Clark played in Candlestick, where fly balls go to get frostbite. Palmeiro has been a better player since 1993 but if you compare each player in their best seasons- Clark from 1987-92 and Palmeiro in the late 90’s, I think Clark had the more impact on his teams.” He considered Clark the better defensive first baseman and felt the fact that he led in two of the main percentages- batting average and on base percentage vs. slugging percentage- was in his favor “When you figure in park effects and league context, I think Clark had had the better of it so far.” (That was in 2000.) Under Palmeiro James notes that Rafael won the 1999 Gold Glove at first despite the fact that he only played 28 games there. He was a DH the4 rest of the time. He goes on to take apart the Gold Glove voting system where voters can vote for anybody and a guy with 15% of the vote can get the Gold Glove. He prefers a system of statistical minimums, a committee to vet the candidates down to a few and weighted ballots: 3 points for first, 2 for second, etc. His warning about the current system: “A voting system like this is an open invitation to an eccentric outcome. If the United States were to use a system like this to elect the President, the absolutely certain result would be that, within a few elections, someone like David Duke, Donald Trump or Warren Beatty would be elected President.” He wrote that in 2000. I wonder who Bill will be voting for this year? Bizarrely, Clark seemed to follow Palmeiro around late in his career. Palmerio couldn’t get the contract he wanted from the Rangers in 1993 so he jumped to the Orioles. The Rangers then signed Clark for more money that Palmeiro was asking for, which infuriated Raffy: "That's Will," Palmeiro was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Ft. Worth Star-Telegram. "He's got no class. Friendship didn't matter to him. He was looking out for himself. I don't think much of Will. He's a lowlife." The next day: "Will didn't deserve that," he told the Star-Telegram Tuesday. "I was just talking out of frustration. He wasn't at fault, he did what he had to do, I just felt left out." Later, Palmiero left Baltimore to return to Texas – and pass Clark, who was on his way to Baltimore to replace Palmiero! Wikipedia said that the two of them had problems getting along dating from their days at Mississippi State, so I guess there was no friendship. They were never actually pals. Palmeiro was one of the players called before Congress in March, 2005 to testify on steroid use in baseball and he wasn’t happy about it: "Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids, period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never." The following August, Palmeiro tested positive for steroid use and was suspended by MLB. He claims that he never knowingly used steroids and that the positive test was because of something in a vitamin dose teammate Miguel Tejada got him from the Dominican Republic. Both the Mitchell Report and Jose Canseco accused Palmeiro of being a steroid user. He’s not in the Hall of Fame, being dropped form the voting after 5 years because he never received more than 4.4% of the vote. Maybe Donald Trump can do better. [/QUOTE]

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