Saban on run and stop the run

[Millhouse]

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I think "You're not gonna win anything now" is relative. This is exactly what Northwestern still does and they punch way above their traditional weight.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

I agree with Saban but it is also relative to recruiting and the ability to get players to fit that kind of ground and pound system. I honestly believe if you had the best athletes you could run a traditional wishbone option offense or power i back field and win in today's game. Even the Kansas City Chiefs ran a play from the 1948 Rose Bowl in their Superbowl victory a few years ago.

The problem is that the kids do not want to exclusively play that type of old style so the coaches recruiting it would never get the talent to back it up. Even Nick Saban. The players today grew up playing fast even at the high school level. We threw the ball 3 times a game when I played 25 years ago. That is not the case any more at almost any level of football. Everything evolves. I would argue that the RPO is kind of a modified option offense to jive with the rules of today.

 

[Scooch]

Nick Saban could have his guys draw plays in the dirt before every snap and he'd still win 10 games a year.

 

[Briancuse]

Run the ball stop the run, and get 15 5 star guys every year.

 

[syrBossHogg]

The best coaches are able to recognize where the game is going and how to adapt to it

 

[money3189]

Yup. Kids today are more skillful than ever. The use of 7v7 is a big reason for that. Its not smart to not use those skill sets. The offenses of today allows you to move the ball a variety of ways. Make the defense play the whole field and challenge them horizontally and vertically. Plus when you spread the defense out you can hit them with zone and gap runs with or without a TE. The ability to decide run/pass post snap has made it difficult to stop teams. So you are better off running similar things on offense so you can keep up instead of trying to play conservative and hope your defense is lights out.

 

[SUskibum]

I agree with Saban but it is also relative to recruiting and the ability to get players to fit that kind of ground and pound system. I honestly believe if you had the best athletes you could run a traditional wishbone option offense or power i back field and win in today's game. Even the Kansas City Chiefs ran a play from the 1948 Rose Bowl in their Superbowl victory a few years ago.

The problem is that the kids do not want to exclusively play that type of old style so the coaches recruiting it would never get the talent to back it up. Even Nick Saban. The players today grew up playing fast even at the high school level. We threw the ball 3 times a game when I played 25 years ago. That is not the case any more at almost any level of football. Everything evolves. I would argue that the RPO is kind of a modified option offense to jive with the rules of today.

You don’t think Saban had the best athletes 5-6 years ago when he decided he needed to change?

He had the best athletes in the game and realized he was finished if he didn’t adapt. If that doesn’t convince you, nothing will

 

[money3189]

You don’t think Saban had the best athletes 5-6 years ago when he decided he needed to change?

He had the best athletes in the game and realized he was finished if he didn’t adapt. If that doesn’t convince you, nothing will

Correct. We all get accustomed to how football looked growing up. How football was played during the time we fell in love with the game. Football is still all about blocking and tackling. Its just harder now because you have to tackle athletic guys in space and defend the vertical pass more.

 

[TheCusian]

Yep, it’s hard for folks to admit the game has evolved into something better

 

[sufandu]

Yep, it’s hard for folks to admit the game has evolved into something better

I would say different. Not better, not worse. There was a certain beauty to watching the choreography involved with watching old style run schemes with so many people close to the LOS that gets a bit lost now.

 

[SoBristol]

The game has evolved in favor of elite WRs and passing attacks. it can be better.

But if you can’t stop the run, teams like BC will roll you. If you can’t mount any kind of running attack for balance, a QB like Devito will be blitzed and have no chance. We have seen how that plays out.

 

[sufandu]

The game has evolved in favor of elite WRs and passing attacks. it can be better.

But if you can’t stop the run, teams like BC will roll you. If you can’t mount any kind of running attack for balance, a QB like Devito will be blitzed and have no chance. We have seen how that plays out.

Yeah, it's not as if he was saying stopping the run and running the ball aren't still important, just look at how well they still do those things. It's more that being elite at those things isn't enough anymore. And if you drop from elite to merely really really really good at those so you can be much better at passing and defending the pass, the trade off is favorable and necessary.

 

[SoBristol]

Yeah, it's not as if he was saying stopping the run and running the ball aren't still important, just look at how well they still do those things. It's more that being elite at those things isn't enough anymore. And if you drop from elite to merely really really really good at those so you can be much better at passing and defending the pass, the trade off is favorable and necessary.

I am sure that is fine for Alabama, which consistently recruits elite linemen many of whom go on to be first and second day draft choices. LSU is another example — needed to have Joe Burrow and an elite receiver to provide balance.

And we are at a different level (obvious). I think we will see the benefit of stronger DL and a maturing LB unit, as well as our RB room working behind some hefty linemen. Gotta stop the run to have any chance, and stay away from 2nd and long and 3rd and long.

 

[TheCusian]

I would say different. Not better, not worse. There was a certain beauty to watching the choreography involved with watching old style run schemes with so many people close to the LOS that gets a bit lost now.

There was a beauty about it, sure. But it’s ok to say the game got better and more advanced. That’s progress.

Doesn’t mean that stuff wasn’t fun to watch too. There’s a reason the sport grew.

 

[money3189]

The game has evolved in favor of elite WRs and passing attacks. it can be better.

But if you can’t stop the run, teams like BC will roll you. If you can’t mount any kind of running attack for balance, a QB like Devito will be blitzed and have no chance. We have seen how that plays out.

There is still emphasis on running the ball. The way teams run the ball is different. There’s a lot of great running teams that don’t run pro style. There’s just many ways to skin the cat now. Being balance is what makes it better. You can torch teams based on how they play you.

BC has not challenged for a conference title. They had the better lineman and backs but yet we are 4-4 with them in the last 8 games. One of the reasons why Addazio got canned was his lack of imagination on offense. It limited them.

 

[money3189]

There was a beauty about it, sure. But it’s ok to say the game got better and more advanced. That’s progress.

Doesn’t mean that stuff wasn’t fun to watch too. There’s a reason the sport grew.

Agree. The schemes in the 80’s and 90’s were different than the schemes in the 60’s and 70’s. It’s evolution. Defenders are bigger stronger faster now. You need to expand your scheme as things evolve. It’s more of a chess game now. There’s different skill sets being utilized. It’s forcing defenses to use specialized positions. You now need defenders that can run in space, cover Wr’s and tackle RB’s.

 

[money3189]

I would say different. Not better, not worse. There was a certain beauty to watching the choreography involved with watching old style run schemes with so many people close to the LOS that gets a bit lost now.

I miss seeing that too.

 

[sufandu]

I am sure that is fine for Alabama, which consistently recruits elite linemen many of whom go on to be first and second day draft choices. LSU is another example — needed to have Joe Burrow and an elite receiver to provide balance.

And we are at a different level (obvious). I think we will see the benefit of stronger DL and a maturing LB unit, as well as our RB room working behind some hefty linemen. Gotta stop the run to have any chance, and stay away from 2nd and long and 3rd and long.

I think it's similar for everyone though. What changes is the ceiling. Alabama needed to adjust to the times to be a NC contender. We needed to adjust to become relevant.

 

[sufandu]

There was a beauty about it, sure. But it’s ok to say the game got better and more advanced. That’s progress.

Doesn’t mean that stuff wasn’t fun to watch too. There’s a reason the sport grew.

I think we're defining better differently. I'm reading your take as strategic, as in today's style is a better way to win. I'm not looking at it quite like that. I know people like the wide open game with skill guys in space, but that's not necessarily better to watch than what used to take place at the line of scrimmage that has been somewhat lost, at least for me.

 

[SWC75]

Those things are still important. They're just not enough by themselves any more.

 

[SUskibum]

I think we're defining better differently. I'm reading your take as strategic, as in today's style is a better way to win. I'm not looking at it quite like that. I know people like the wide open game with skill guys in space, but that's not necessarily better to watch than what used to take place at the line of scrimmage that has been somewhat lost, at least for me.

It comes down to preference for sure. Do you prefer a 2-1 pitchers duel or a 6-8 game with lots of people on base/dingers etc

I think the general public has preferred more scoring in just about every sport, but there is definitely beauty in both.

 

[TheCusian]

I think we're defining better differently. I'm reading your take as strategic, as in today's style is a better way to win. I'm not looking at it quite like that. I know people like the wide open game with skill guys in space, but that's not necessarily better to watch than what used to take place at the line of scrimmage that has been somewhat lost, at least for me.

Right. I’m saying given equal athletes, the modern system would trounce the old system

 

[NineOneSeven]

I wish DeVonta Smith didn't get hurt in the title game. That dude could have had 20 catches and 6 touchdowns. Not joking.

 

[UpstateSM]

It comes down to preference for sure. Do you prefer a 2-1 pitchers duel or a 6-8 game with lots of people on base/dingers etc

I think the general public has preferred more scoring in just about every sport, but there is definitely beauty in both.

College football is the best because there’s so much variation in offensive approach across the sport. The same can be said for college hoops too, especially defensively.

But I genuinely enjoy watching triple option offenses or what Willie Fritz runs at Tulane as much as I do Alabama now or Kiffin at Ole Miss. The service academy games really are some of my favorite games of the season.

I wish I had a better grasp of defensive schemes and strategy. It’s not talked about much unless you dig deep. And 95% of what I played through high school was as a safety in a basic cover 3 4-4 because small schools don’t throw the ball much.