Seth Davis on SU Strength

[Upstate]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/12/07/Syracuse/index.html?eref=twitter_feed

 

[OttoMets]

Best Syracuse team since 2002-2003?

That'd be great, but what does Seth see that I don't see?

This looks like a good team that could be a very good team. It seems inferior to the 2009-2010 bunch in nearly every facet of the game (not strikingly so, but they were better at every position).

 

[Nate44]

Best Syracuse team since 2002-2003?

That'd be great, but what does Seth see that I don't see?

This looks like a good team that could be a very good team. It seems inferior to the 2009-2010 bunch in nearly every facet of the game (not strikingly so, but they were better at every position).

Agree completely. It seems like everyone but Cuse fans only remember that we lost in the sweet 16 and don't factor in that AO was a huge huge loss.

 

[BuffOrange]

Best Syracuse team since 2002-2003?

That'd be great, but what does Seth see that I don't see?

This looks like a good team that could be a very good team. It seems inferior to the 2009-2010 bunch in nearly every facet of the game (not strikingly so, but they were better at every position).

Agreed. Standard media guy hyperbole (or short memory).

 

[pfister1]

In fairness I don't think we thought so highly of the 2009-10 bunch this early in the campaign. They were a really, really good team. But we are judging them based on the heights to which they developed over the course of a full season. This team isn't there yet, but they could get there it is only December...time will tell.

 

[NKR1978]

Best Syracuse team since 2002-2003?

That'd be great, but what does Seth see that I don't see?

This looks like a good team that could be a very good team. It seems inferior to the 2009-2010 bunch in nearly every facet of the game (not strikingly so, but they were better at every position).

I don't disagree that much and not going to quibble over really minor things because the 2010 was just a great college basketball team.

The strange thing about that team is that it started off great and stayed pretty much at the same level all year.

This year the team has started off very good-not quite great. I do believe this team has so much room for realistic improvement that its ceiling is much high higher than the 2010 team.

While the criticism from last night is a bit too chicken little, there are definitely concerns with our offense and rebounding. Hopefully they can be corrected.

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[OttoMets]

In fairness I don't think we thought so highly of the 2009-10 bunch this early in the campaign. They were a really, really good team. But we are judging them based on the heights to which they developed over the course of a full season. This team isn't there yet, but they could get there it is only December...time will tell.

I don't have the pdf handy, but the NCAA statistical leaders for the week ending 13 December 2009 was absolutely ridiculous. Syracuse was top-5 in the country in something like 7 categories, and #1 in a few of those. Turnover margin, steals, field-goal percentage, field-goal percentage defense, that kind of thing.

The Cal/UNC games were good, but after we beat Florida (I think that's two years ago either tonight or tomorrow night), a lot of people knew we were really good.

 

[AZOrange]

I don't have the pdf handy, but the NCAA statistical leaders for the week ending 13 December 2009 was absolutely ridiculous. Syracuse was top-5 in the country in something like 7 categories, and #1 in a few of those. Turnover margin, steals, field-goal percentage, field-goal percentage defense, that kind of thing.

The Cal/UNC games were good, but after we beat Florida (I think that's two years ago either tonight or tomorrow night), a lot of people knew we were really good.

Having started the year losing to Lemoyne...

 

[OttoMets]

This year the team has started off very good-not quite great. I do believe this team has so much room for realistic improvement that its ceiling is much high higher than the 2010 team.

I think that could be true. Fab, for instance, can become a much better player than Arinze ever could. Ditto for Christmas versus Jackson. And our defense could be as good as 2010's.

But no one on this team has the ceiling Wes had (Mr. Joseph is what he is), and I don't see any good shooters materializing.

 

[OttoMets]

Having started the year losing to Lemoyne...

Nobody who matters gave that a serious thought after the regular season began. It's a funny thing to talk about, but that's where it ends.

 

[Chosen0ne]

I truly believe that the 2009-10 team was the best team in the country that year when they were all healthy. This could be a great year, but I will not discount the efforts of a few years ago. That was a special group.

 

[longislandcuse]

Wes was good, but he was only a rebounder and jump shooter. Granted he was a pretty sick jump shooter and hit the 3 consistantly but he could NOT take it to the hoop (hand injury hampered him). That team had Wes and Rautins shooting threes, thats what seperates that team from us right now. I think we have alot more potential on this team than that team but if we cant hit the broad side of a barn from three, we might struggle during portions of games.

 

[moqui]

That team had Wes and Rautins shooting threes, thats what seperates that team from us right now.

no, that is far from the only thing that separates the two squads. In addition to Wes (.415) and Andy (.407), they also had Triche (.400) and Scoop (.389) knocking down three pointers. Four guys who shot at least 50 three pointers and hit 39% or better (collectively, they shot .406 and attempted about 15 threes per game). That spread defenses out to make room for Ricky and Arinze, who dominated the offensive glass and converted from the post at a very high percentage - both averaging double figure points and sitting among the national leaders in FG%. And, it worked both ways - JB would begin the game by going inside to Automatic Arinze, collapsing defenses for the shooters to find space. Finally, all those other weapons opened the driving lanes for Sixth Man of the Year Kris Joseph.

That team was qualitatively different from the current bunch on the offensive end.

 

[orangehipfan]

A huge difference is that Wes was big enough to play the "4" when either Rick or AO went out. That allowed Joseph to pretty much be ignored by the defense. CJ has a ton of heart and ability but just isn't big enough to compete with better teams at the "4".​

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That team would kill this years team.

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[NKR1978]

But no one on this team has the ceiling Wes had (Mr. Joseph is what he is), and I don't see any good shooters materializing.

You're right. Wes was absolutely great, but he couldn't take over a game when we needed him (Butler), and I think Dion has the potential to be able to take over with his slashing ability and general fearlessness.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

I think that could be true. Fab, for instance, can become a much better player than Arinze ever could. Ditto for Christmas versus Jackson. And our defense could be as good as 2010's.

But no one on this team has the ceiling Wes had (Mr. Joseph is what he is), and I don't see any good shooters materializing.

Rick Jackson was vastly underrated IMO...

 

[CorduroyG]

I don't have the pdf handy, but the NCAA statistical leaders for the week ending 13 December 2009 was absolutely ridiculous. Syracuse was top-5 in the country in something like 7 categories, and #1 in a few of those. Turnover margin, steals, field-goal percentage, field-goal percentage defense, that kind of thing.

The Cal/UNC games were good, but after we beat Florida (I think that's two years ago either tonight or tomorrow night), a lot of people knew we were really good.

THats pretty spot on. And when we beat west virginia and notre dame in early january both on the road on a saturday/monday, i personally knew we were top 5-no-doubt-about-it-national-championship-good.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

2009 - 2010 >>> 2011 - 2012

AO + RJ >>> FM & Whomever

That being said, players may well develop to change the above.

 

[BuffOrange]

You're right. Wes was absolutely great, but he couldn't take over a game when we needed him (Butler), and I think Dion has the potential to be able to take over with his slashing ability and general fearlessness.

"Couldn't take over the game we lost" - wow, that is an awfully rough criteria. You can say the same thing about any player on any team who didn't win the national championship.

 

[NKR1978]

"Couldn't take over the game we lost" - wow, that is an awfully rough criteria. You can say the same thing about any player on any team who didn't win the national championship.

Perhaps. But my recollection of Wes that game was that he, along with the rest of the team, was a no show. Much like Hak against Vermont. 10 turnovers in his last game in Orange is not how Hak should have ended his career. The NCAA tournament is where great college players become legends.

Wes is 3x the basketball player Gerry is, but Gerry is an SU legend. Blood streaming down his face against Okie State. Those 6 first half threes. 43 points against BYU. That's pretty legendary. Hak had his moments with the block and the tea bag against Texas.

You don't need to win the tournament to have had a great tournament, but the players we remember most put their teams on their back at some point. Wes didn't do that against Butler. It happens. It's not a knock on him. He provided a hundred awesome memories I'm going to have in his one year playing for Syracuse.

 

[longtimefan]

In fairness I don't think we thought so highly of the 2009-10 bunch this early in the campaign.

Anyone who was in the Garden in November of '09 and saw them dismantle Cal and UNC knew that we really had something going.

 

[CorduroyG]

Perhaps. But my recollection of Wes that game was that he, along with the rest of the team, was a no show. Much like Hak against Vermont. 10 turnovers in his last game in Orange is not how Hak should have ended his career. The NCAA tournament is where great college players become legends.

Wes is 3x the basketball player Gerry is, but Gerry is an SU legend. Blood streaming down his face against Okie State. Those 6 first half threes. 43 points against BYU. That's pretty legendary. Hak had his moments with the block and the tea bag against Texas.

You don't need to win the tournament to have had a great tournament, but the players we remember most put their teams on their back at some point. Wes didn't do that against Butler. It happens. It's not a knock on him. He provided a hundred awesome memories I'm going to have in his one year playing for Syracuse.

Rick Jackson was the biggest goat of that game, he was beyond awful. But even so were up 4 with 4 to go and nobody stepped up down the stretch. Andy and scoop both paniced and tried to do too much and either turned it over or took a bad shot, and I dont even remember wes touching the ball down the stretch.

 

[BuffOrange]

Perhaps. But my recollection of Wes that game was that he, along with the rest of the team, was a no show. Much like Hak against Vermont. 10 turnovers in his last game in Orange is not how Hak should have ended his career. The NCAA tournament is where great college players become legends.

Wes is 3x the basketball player Gerry is, but Gerry is an SU legend. Blood streaming down his face against Okie State. Those 6 first half threes. 43 points against BYU. That's pretty legendary. Hak had his moments with the block and the tea bag against Texas.

You don't need to win the tournament to have had a great tournament, but the players we remember most put their teams on their back at some point. Wes didn't do that against Butler. It happens. It's not a knock on him. He provided a hundred awesome memories I'm going to have in his one year playing for Syracuse.

That's all fine but I don't know how any of that relates to 2010 vs 2012. Nobody in December '09 knew what would happen in a tight tournament game any more than we know now how this year's team will do in the same spot (mostly because sh&* happens in a 1&done format). What we do know is man for man, that team was better.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

Anyone who was in the Garden in November of '09 and saw them dismantle Cal and UNC knew that we really had something going.

Roger that! The '09-10 team was a well-oiled machine and beautiful to watch, but Georgetown threw sand in the gears when it knocked AO out. This year's team may be less polished, but they hang their identity on their steals, and their better depth might prevent a Butler-like derailment come tournament time. We can hope.-VBOF