Seth Davis - Should college hoops change to 4 quarters?

[IthacaMatt]

Hell no. I don't want more stoppages of play, more commercial breaks. I like the flow of the game just the way it is right now. Davis tries to argue that you get fewer free throws under the 4 quarter model, but that hasn't been the case with the women's game. Your thoughts?

Hoop Thoughts: No reason to switch to quarters

 

[HoustonCuse]

I like the current way but the change is virtually inevitable.

 

[RF2044]

If it ain't broke...

 

[Jasoncuse]

Why would there be more commercial breaks and stoppages?

If there are four 10 minutes quarter, wouldn't the TV timeouts be the 5 minutes mark of each quarter and the end of each quarter? There'd be 3 TV stoppages per half then, instead of the current 4.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why would there be more commercial breaks and stoppages?

If there are four 10 minutes quarter, wouldn't the TV timeouts be the 5 minutes mark of each quarter and the end of each quarter? There'd be 3 TV stoppages per half then, instead of the current 4.

Yes, you could reduce the TV timeouts by two to account for the breaks between quarters, but do you think that TV networks are not going to take advantage of the extra stoppages in time to sell more advertising?

 

[Alsacs]

Yes.
HS ball is quarters.
NBA ball is quarters.
FIBA is quarters.
College ball should be quarters. It would be one less Stoppage per half and make the game flow better.
5 team Fouls per Quarter and then the penalty. No get in the bonus at 13 minutes left in a half and all Fouls are FTs.
Embrace the change.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I was very interested to read about the fouls and being in the bonus. My son plays mini-metro with 4 quarters, but they follow the 7 fouls per half to get to the bonus like college. I can't remember how the local high schools do it up here.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't see any advantage gained by making the change.

 

[jordoo]

Yes please!!!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yes please!!!

Additional beer runs???

 

[Alsacs]

Yes, you could reduce the TV timeouts by two to account for the breaks between quarters, but do you think that TV networks are not going to take advantage of the extra stoppages in time to sell more advertising?

Just make each TO 30 seconds longer and then it evens out. 1 extra commercial for less stoppages.

 

[Brooky03]

Yes.
HS ball is quarters.
NBA ball is quarters.
FIBA is quarters.
College ball should be quarters. It would be one less Stoppage per half and make the game flow better. 5 teams and then the penalty. No get in the bonus
At 13 minutes left in a half and all Fouls are FTs.
Embrace the change.

How does it help the flow? I understand the consistency across all levels argument, but I don't know how 4 quarters helps the flow of the game better than 2 halves. I would think 2 halves would be better for the flow.

If we're debating the FT impact, I see neither option as significantly better than the other. In the NBA, teams are shooting free throws halfway through each quarter. So you get basketball for the first 1/8 of the game, then free throws for the next 1/8, then back to basketball, then back to free throws, and so on. In college you get basketball for the first 1/4, free throws for the next 1/4, basketball, free throws, done.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's going to happen. The reason is the NCAA doesn't want teams going into the bonus 8 minutes into the game and shooting free throws for an entire half.

 

[Alsacs]

How does it help the flow? I understand the consistency across all levels argument, but I don't know how 4 quarters helps the flow of the game better than 2 halves. I would think 2 halves would be better for the flow.

If we're debating the FT impact, I see neither option as significantly better than the other. In the NBA, teams are shooting free throws halfway through each quarter. So you get basketball for the first 1/8 of the game, then free throws for the next 1/8, then back to basketball, then back to free throws, and so on. In college you get basketball for the first 1/4, free throws for the next 1/4, basketball, free throws, done.

Teams get in the bonus really early in a half and then all ticky tac fouls all foul shots and kill the flow stopping and shooting FTs.
5 team fouls per Q. Allows the penalty to not ruin halfs.

 

[jordoo]

Additional beer runs???

Less TO's no 10+ minutes of bonus FT stretches. Every team should improve on short clock situations since they have 4 cracks at it a game. Continuity with the rest of bball in the known world. I just think it would make viewing and game flow much better. Coaches would be saving TO's for the end of quarters and would be less likely to call to many during regular play when you have a stoppage every 10min.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yes.
HS ball is quarters.
NBA ball is quarters.
FIBA is quarters.
College ball should be quarters. It would be one less Stoppage per half and make the game flow better.
5 team Fouls per Quarter and then the penalty. No get in the bonus at 13 minutes left in a half and all Fouls are FTs.
Embrace the change.

Soccer doesn't and college hoops doesn't. Those are the 2 best sports to watch, and soccer is the best, from a fan's point of view, because there are no breaks, no commercials, no time-outs, no instructions from the coaches on the sidelines (well, they do it, but play is still going on...).

 

[scottynguyen]

If it puts an end to TV timeouts every 4 minutes I'm all for it.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

If it puts an end to TV timeouts every 4 minutes I'm all for it.

It's the stoppages right before a TV timeout with commercials only to be followed by 40 seconds of game time then 3 more minutes of commercials that drives me nuts.

TV timeouts should be plus or minus 45 seconds of the 4 minute breaks.

 

[Alsacs]

Soccer doesn't and college hoops doesn't. Those are the 2 best sports to watch, and soccer is the best, from a fan's point of view, because there are no breaks, no commercials, no time-outs, no instructions from the coaches on the sidelines (well, they do it, but play is still going on...).

Where in the world is Soccer played and it isn't 2 45 minutes halves?
Comparing soccer to college hoops doesn't work. College hoops has no flow you get TOs every 4 minutes and because of the foul situation you can get teams in the penalty 5-6 minutes into a half and it affects the flow for an overwhelming majority of the half.
Four 10 minute quarters is better for the teams as it relates to penalty FT shooting.

 

[RF2044]

Where in the world is Soccer played and it isn't 2 45 minutes halves?
Comparing soccer to college hoops doesn't work. College hoops has no flow you get TOs every 4 minutes and because of the foul situation you can get teams in the penalty 5-6 minutes into a half and it affects the flow for an overwhelming majority of the half.
Four 10 minute quarters is better for the teams as it relates to penalty FT shooting.

I don't know--your point about teams getting into the penalty makes this feel like combatting symptoms instead of the actual problem. Which is that teams foul too much, that the way that the game is defensively officiated already enables teams to get away with too much as is. So why reward that behavior even further? Jay Bilas has been vocal about the need to officiate the collegiate game out of basket-brawl defensive tactics that turn the game into a scrum.

The point of the bonus is to penalize team for fouling excessively. Would we really want to reduce that penalty and incent teams to foul indiscriminately?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's wrong about how fouls are called at the high school level, at least in states that follow the National Federation of High Schools like they do here in VT.

https://www.nfhs.org/media/1017206/ncaa-nfhs_rule_differences_2016-17.pdf

So, unless they adopted the women's rules, then this really doesn't change anything from how high school is officiated.
EDIT - sorry, should have included a header. Second column is NFHS rules, third column is NCAA.

 

[Brooky03]

Teams get in the bonus really early in a half and then all ticky tac fouls all foul shots and kill the flow stopping and shooting FTs.
5 team fouls per Q. Allows the penalty to not ruin halfs.

You end up with roughly the same amount of game time in the bonus, in my experience watching college and NBA hoops. It's just that the NBA breaks up the free throw shooting within the half (say the game is split into 8ths, you get free throws at 2/8, 4/8, 6/8, and 8/8) while college gets all the free throws done at the end of each half. Either way, you're finishing halves and quarters with big chunks of time in the bonus.

Wouldn't a better solution be to get rid of the 1-and-1? It's arguably the dumbest rule ever created, so why not start there?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You end up with roughly the same amount of game time in the bonus, in my experience watching college and NBA hoops. It's just that the NBA breaks up the free throw shooting within the half (say the game is split into 8ths, you get free throws at 2/8, 4/8, 6/8, and 8/8) while college gets all the free throws done at the end of each half. Either way, you're finishing halves and quarters with big chunks of time in the bonus.

Wouldn't a better solution be to get rid of the 1-and-1? It's arguably the dumbest rule ever created, so why not start there?

God no, don't do that. We don't work on free throws nearly enough as it is. The one and one is a great incentive to work on that aspect of the game.

 

[Brooky03]

God no, don't do that. We don't work on free throws nearly enough as it is. The one and one is a great incentive to work on that aspect of the game.

It might be good incentive to work on free throws, but when teams essentially force 3 turnovers in a row by sending Howard to the line to inevitably miss the front end of the 1-and-1 all 3 times, it seems a tad unfair.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It might be good incentive to work on free throws, but when teams essentially force 3 turnovers in a row by sending Howard to the line to inevitably miss the front end of the 1-and-1 all 3 times, it seems a tad unfair.

Get better and they won't do that. Or coach the team to have someone else take the ball.