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Message: [QUOTE="Ward, post: 2153273, member: 1958"] Yea I think when I made those two groups I was looking at it more like guys who didn't have a huge impact in their first year and even second year in some cases but developed in the program and were key pieces as upperclassmen versus guys who came in and were key cogs early (with MCW showing plenty of promise as a freshmen but stuck in a log jam at guard). Probably should've included Triche in the second group to better clarify my point because you're right it did just become early departures vs. 4 year guys. Ennis I always thought was an elite talent that a lot of people kinda figured just because he wasn't an elite athlete to go with it NBA teams wouldn't be interested. He still was expected to have a huge impact from day 1 though which was more the angle I was looking at. [/QUOTE]