Sherman out at ATM, looks like asu and ATM will be

[IthacaBarrel]

Fighting it out for sumlin, loser may get fedora from so miss

 

[OrangePA]

Sherman is a very good coach.

I thought he had turned the corner at A&M.

Surprised at this firing.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Sherman is a very good coach.

I thought he had turned the corner at A&M.

Surprised at this firing.

Opa are there any bad coaches in your opinion? Or just not enough talent?

 

[BlackKnight76]

My dad gave Sherman his first coaching job out of college (Central Connecticut). Dad is also a CCSU alum, and needed an OL coach at Stamford High, so he called up his old college coach at Central who recommended Sherman. Sherman coached at SHS for two years, and eventually left for a small college job, never to be heard from again.

In 2000, Dad gets a phone call from
the Green Bay Press Gazette. The reporter introduces himself and tells Dad that Mike Sherman had just been hired as head coach of the Packers. Dad had completely lost track of Sherman's career when he left Stamford, and had no idea that he had been at Texas A&M and then Green Bay and Seattle as an assistant. He assumed the call was one of his old frat brothers pranking him, so he responded with "haha, shut the up" and hung up the phone.

He gets a call back a few seconds later:

"Sir, we take our football very seriously here in Green Bay".

Dad ended up reconnecting with Sherman, who sent a lot of stuff to the house for Dad to use in the Stamford youth organization that he had started a few years earlier (http://www.stamfordyouth.org/). He also invited Dad and I up to Lambeau Field. We were able to watch practice, got a full tour of the offices and virtually everything in Lambeau (locker rooms, draft war room, film archive), and even ate with the team after practice. We then had field passes to the preseason game against the Saints that weekend. It was a really surreal experience, and I've been a diehard Packer fan ever since, thanks to Sherman.

I thought Green Bay let him go a not early, although I have no complaints since McCarthy has worked out really well. Him getting fired from Texas A&M is a bit surprising as well, and unfortunate, as I was contemplating applying for an Sports Information position down there for next fall. Oh well.

Anyway, Mike Sherman is a great guy and a very solid coach, and I hope he bounces back once again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Great stuff bk, thanks for sharing

 

[OrangePA]

Opa are there any bad coaches in your opinion? Or just not enough talent?

You are probably right. I tend to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt. I tend to believe that it's the players who win and lose games.

But, in answer to your question. Yes, there are less talented coaches out there, I'm just not sure Mike Sherman is one of them. He had pretty good success at Green Bay, is a noted offensive mind and led A&M to the Cotton Bowl last year.

There are certainly less talented coaches out there.

Rich Kotite here in Philly was a bad head coach. Greg Robinson was a bad head coach. Bill Stewart of WVU turned out to be a mediocre head coach. Bill Callahan, the former Nebraska head coach was a bad college head coach - at least for Nebraska. Robinson's first OL coach - blanking on his name - was a bad college coach. Cam Cameron was a bad head coach at my alma mater - Indiana. Bill Lynch of Indiana was at best a mediocre head coach.

There are few truly great coaches. For me there is Bill Belichek right now and in the past only a handful - Lou Holtz, Tom Landry, Dick Vermiel, Bill Parcells, Don Shula, Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes, and Chuck Noll.

Those were guys who could take a given team and make it better almost immediately.

I think we often times fail to recognize that there are very few of those kinds of guys.

And maybe that's my problem with these changes that we're reading about. These college ADs are looking for that great HC and the fact is that he's probably not out there. What's out there is a group of very good coaches - all of whom can win with good talent.

Whenever a guy like a Mike Sherman is fired I think of when the Denver Bronco's fired Shanahan. And the owner, Pat Bowlen said at the time something like "I just hope we can find somebody as good as Mike was"

And I thought "Huh? If you don't know that you can find a guy as good as Mike, why fire Mike?"

I think that stability - hanging in there with a solid coach who works hard, is good with young athletes and alums, and who stresses education and good citizenship, is the way to succeed in the long run.

I would not have fired Sherman or Gill or Nueheisal - I would have done what Va Tech did with Beamer.

But, interesting discussion.

 

[OrangePA]

My dad gave Sherman his first coaching job out of college (Central Connecticut). Dad is also a CCSU alum, and needed an OL coach at Stamford High, so he called up his old college coach at Central who recommended Sherman. Sherman coached at SHS for two years, and eventually left for a small college job, never to be heard from again.

In 2000, Dad gets a phone call from
the Green Bay Press Gazette. The reporter introduces himself and tells Dad that Mike Sherman had just been hired as head coach of the Packers. Dad had completely lost track of Sherman's career when he left Stamford, and had no idea that he had been at Texas A&M and then Green Bay and Seattle as an assistant. He assumed the call was one of his old frat brothers pranking him, so he responded with "haha, shut the **** up" and hung up the phone.

He gets a call back a few seconds later:

"Sir, we take our football very seriously here in Green Bay".

Dad ended up reconnecting with Sherman, who sent a lot of stuff to the house for Dad to use in the Stamford youth organization that he had started a few years earlier (http://www.stamfordyouth.org/). He also invited Dad and I up to Lambeau Field. We were able to watch practice, got a full tour of the offices and virtually everything in Lambeau (locker rooms, draft war room, film archive), and even ate with the team after practice. We then had field passes to the preseason game against the Saints that weekend. It was a really surreal experience, and I've been a diehard Packer fan ever since, thanks to Sherman.

I thought Green Bay let him go a not early, although I have no complaints since McCarthy has worked out really well. Him getting fired from Texas A&M is a bit surprising as well, and unfortunate, as I was contemplating applying for an Sports Information position down there for next fall. Oh well.

Anyway, Mike Sherman is a great guy and a very solid coach, and I hope he bounces back once again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great information. Thanks.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Orange Pa, my outlook for coaches is obviously much shorter term than yours, realistically at major programs you get 3-4 years to prove yourself. Sherman was 25-25 and that will not cut it at a program like ATM, he was probably making close to 2 million a year, he wasn't getting paid that type of money to go 25-25 especially going into the SEC. His team had several second half melt downs this year and lost a few games they absolutely should have won, his time was up in today's game and the firing was more than reasonable. Talent helps but if he needed more talent he certainly had time to get it. Either you are losing because you aren't coaching well enough at that point or you have not recruited well enough, either way, it's on the coach at that point. Same goes for marrone next year

 

[OrangePA]

Lets see how Texas A&M does in the next few years.

I suspect that not much will change.

And, of course, there is no way one can compare the A&M situation with the Syracuse situation.

It took Coach Mac six years to develope the program. It will likely take Marrone the same number of years.

Hopefully most on this board will understand that a longer time line is necessary in our situation than perhaps A&M or another SEC school.

 

[OrangePA]

Orange Pa, my outlook for coaches is obviously much shorter term than yours, realistically at major programs you get 3-4 years to prove yourself. Sherman was 25-25 and that will not cut it at a program like ATM, he was probably making close to 2 million a year, he wasn't getting paid that type of money to go 25-25 especially going into the SEC. His team had several second half melt downs this year and lost a few games they absolutely should have won, his time was up in today's game and the firing was more than reasonable. Talent helps but if he needed more talent he certainly had time to get it. Either you are losing because you aren't coaching well enough at that point or you have not recruited well enough, either way, it's on the coach at that point. Same goes for marrone next year

Take a look at Ivan's assessment of the A&M situation.

I think he makes the right point - the coach sometimes does not truly change an institution's success on the field for various reasons.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7305259/texas-aggies-pulls-plug-mike-sherman

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Take a look at Ivan's assessment of the A&M situation.

I think he makes the right point - the coach sometimes does not truly change an institution's success on the field for various reasons.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7305259/texas-aggies-pulls-plug-mike-sherman

What about when the Gators fired Ron Zook, when Oregon let Belotti go, the AD needs to communicate what the expectations are for a particular program that way the coach can understand what they are getting into. I am sure Gross has done that for Marrone. I am sure that is why the WSU job appealed to Leach so much, I would imagine he was contacted by Arizona, ASU, and Kansas. Why is WSU a great job for Leach? He will be given time there, the community is one which I am sure appeals to him as well, it's in the middle of nowehere, it suits his non conformist type of personality, mady media types won't even want to go Pullman. I have been there, it's like getting to State College times 10. Leach knows that he can go 8-4 there 3-4 years from now and people won't want him fired as long as he is playing tough competitive football. He bought time there and is basically building from scratch, they also have new facilties that will begin being built almost immediately. Marrone will also be given time, regardless of what I think. The difference is Leach is a personality, has had prior success, and puts pointson the board and will have some epic battles, his defense is what will take 4-5 years. He's a smart man. You have to go from losing big, to losing close, to winning close, to winninng big. Bobby Bowden's words not mine. In year 3, we are still losing a lot of games by to big of a margin in conference. We lost two close games, but were not really close in USF, Cinci, and LVille, that bothers me the most, I see no progression on the offense, no plan on specials, defense is young for sure, but they have really lost the fundamentals that we seemed to pride ourselves in year 1. I don't see the same physical, hard nosed football when we went into Penn St two years ago, I just don't. The O line seems worse than ever. In addition, Marrone continues to have guys with off field issues. my question is after year 3, Where has the foundation gone? it looks like we have taken a huge step backwards regardless of record. Good coaches build a program with an identity, I don't see Marrone having one right now. That is a big problem. The lack of discipline on the field is also a huge issue

I would also add that Marrone himself would not allow for as much time as you are willing to give him.

 

[OrangePA]

What about when the Gators fired Ron Zook, when Oregon let Belotti go, the AD needs to communicate what the expectations are for a particular program that way the coach can understand what they are getting into. I am sure Gross has done that for Marrone. I am sure that is why the WSU job appealed to Leach so much, I would imagine he was contacted by Arizona, ASU, and Kansas. Why is WSU a great job for Leach? He will be given time there, the community is one which I am sure appeals to him as well, it's in the middle of nowehere, it suits his non conformist type of personality, mady media types won't even want to go Pullman. I have been there, it's like getting to State College times 10. Leach knows that he can go 8-4 there 3-4 years from now and people won't want him fired as long as he is playing tough competitive football. He bought time there and is basically building from scratch, they also have new facilties that will begin being built almost immediately. Marrone will also be given time, regardless of what I think. The difference is Leach is a personality, has had prior success, and puts pointson the board and will have some epic battles, his defense is what will take 4-5 years. He's a smart man. You have to go from losing big, to losing close, to winning close, to winninng big. Bobby Bowden's words not mine. In year 3, we are still losing a lot of games by to big of a margin in conference. We lost two close games, but were not really close in USF, Cinci, and LVille, that bothers me the most, I see no progression on the offense, no plan on specials, defense is young for sure, but they have really lost the fundamentals that we seemed to pride ourselves in year 1. I don't see the same physical, hard nosed football when we went into Penn St two years ago, I just don't. The O line seems worse than ever. In addition, Marrone continues to have guys with off field issues. my question is after year 3, Where has the foundation gone? it looks like we have taken a huge step backwards regardless of record. Good coaches build a program with an identity, I don't see Marrone having one right now. That is a big problem.

I would also add that Marrone himself would not allow for as much time as you are willing to give him.

I thought Bellotti resigned - I didn't think he was fired. And, I thought he was the guy who began the process at Oregon.

Zook did not win NCs but he probably did build the team that did two years later. I am not convinced that he wouldn't have had greater success had he stayed.

I agree with you regarding our lack of physical play this year. I am very disappointed in our tackling and soft play. That may be a function of youth - not reacting but thinking on defense.

I agree that our OL play not been all that impressive, but I was not all that impressed last year either. At times I have liked what the offense has tried to do this year.

I am hopeful that what we are seeing is growing pains and the impact of high and perhaps unrealistic expectations.

I think the program is headed in the right direction.

And, I agree with Ivan that A&M made a mistake. Mike Sherman started off 6-1 and lost five games by 17 points. Plus, he went to the Cotton Bowl last year.

I would not have fired him.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I thought Bellotti resigned - I didn't think he was fired. And, I thought he was the guy who began the process at Oregon.

Zook did not win NCs but he probably did build the team that did two years later. I am not convinced that he wouldn't have had greater success had he stayed.

I agree with you regarding our lack of physical play this year. I am very disappointed in our tackling and soft play. That may be a function of youth - not reacting but thinking on defense.

I agree that our OL play not been all that impressive, but I was not all that impressed last year either. At times I have liked what the offense has tried to do this year.

I am hopeful that what we are seeing is growing pains and the impact of high and perhaps unrealistic expectations.

I think the program is headed in the right direction.

And, I agree with Ivan that A&M made a mistake. Mike Sherman started off 6-1 and lost five games by 17 points. Plus, he went to the Cotton Bowl last year.

I would not have fired him.

Good post, lets hope we are. Like I have said for years and people know, I am not going anywhere as I know you aren't either. I support the program finacially now more than ever and hopefully can continue to do so in the future at an even higher level but I am very disappointed with the play this year

 

[Aweart23]

What about when the Gators fired Ron Zook, when Oregon let Belotti go, the AD needs to communicate what the expectations are for a particular program that way the coach can understand what they are getting into. I am sure Gross has done that for Marrone. I am sure that is why the WSU job appealed to Leach so much, I would imagine he was contacted by Arizona, ASU, and Kansas. Why is WSU a great job for Leach? He will be given time there, the community is one which I am sure appeals to him as well, it's in the middle of nowehere, it suits his non conformist type of personality, mady media types won't even want to go Pullman. I have been there, it's like getting to State College times 10. Leach knows that he can go 8-4 there 3-4 years from now and people won't want him fired as long as he is playing tough competitive football. He bought time there and is basically building from scratch, they also have new facilties that will begin being built almost immediately. Marrone will also be given time, regardless of what I think. The difference is Leach is a personality, has had prior success, and puts pointson the board and will have some epic battles, his defense is what will take 4-5 years. He's a smart man. You have to go from losing big, to losing close, to winning close, to winninng big. Bobby Bowden's words not mine. In year 3, we are still losing a lot of games by to big of a margin in conference. We lost two close games, but were not really close in USF, Cinci, and LVille, that bothers me the most, I see no progression on the offense, no plan on specials, defense is young for sure, but they have really lost the fundamentals that we seemed to pride ourselves in year 1. I don't see the same physical, hard nosed football when we went into Penn St two years ago, I just don't. The O line seems worse than ever. In addition, Marrone continues to have guys with off field issues. my question is after year 3, Where has the foundation gone? it looks like we have taken a huge step backwards regardless of record. Good coaches build a program with an identity, I don't see Marrone having one right now. That is a big problem. The lack of discipline on the field is also a huge issue

I would also add that Marrone himself would not allow for as much time as you are willing to give him.

Why are you willing to give Leach 4-5 to build a defense and not give Dougie 4-5 years to build an offense???

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Why are you willing to give Leach 4-5 to build a defense and not give Dougie 4-5 years to build an offense???

Because there is no improvement. In addition, I would give Marrone 4 years because of that. I understand he isn't going anywhere this year. In addition, offense is what Marrone was suppose to be good at. Who knows Leach may get a good defense in 2-3. In addition, defense is what will keep Leaches teams from being great not good or competitive because of the offense that he will bring and considering the play in the Pac 12, they will need offense

 

[Aweart23]

Because there is no improvement. In addition, I would give Marrone 4 years because of that. I understand he isn't going anywhere this year. In addition, offense is what Marrone was suppose to be good at. Who knows Leach may get a good defense in 2-3. In addition, defense is what will keep Leaches teams from being great not good or competitive because of the offense that he will bring

But there has been improvement on the offense..each year since Dougie took over.

Maybe its just that there is not enough improvement?

Not to hijack this thread ...but I'm in the camp that Marcus Sales would have had a dramatic impact on this years offense. Not that he would be putting up All American numbers but just that he can stretch the field and would have added a threat at WR that we don't have. We are really limited at what we can do with our WR's...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Me too but that may be a CBA thing!!

St John Babtist De la Salle and love jesus in your heart, if you can get through CBA without having that burned into your permament memory, I would think you may be in a coma