Shocking, disappointing, depressing | Syracusefan.com

Shocking, disappointing, depressing

Flacusian

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Certainly there have been some challenging issues which the program has been faced with in the past several seasons and the fact that we have recently been to two final fours has been something that many have pointed to as being emblematic of the state of the program...

but I don't think anyone saw this coming. The players which have taken to the floor this season unarguably are talented and the fact that many had not played together made it reasonable to expect that there would be some growing pains early on.

We've seen two disparate teams so far this season. There have been games, albeit against lesser competition, where they looked like they were going to run people off the floor. And then we have seen another team which looks hopelessly lost on both offense and defense and most alarmingly seem to play with no intensity, cohesion, pride, and desire.

Conspicuously missing has been any esprit d' corp. The sullen faces of many of the players, I'm looking at you Frank Howard, Tyus Battle, Tyler Roberson...tells a story of a team which is grappling with some issue which is causing dissension. Only time will tell and perhaps we will never have the opportunity to be privy to what is really going on within the team. But there can be no mistake that there is something which is having a profound impact on both the players individually and the team as a whole.

It's incumbent upon the head coach and his staff to foster an atmosphere of unity and cohesiveness which nurtures the team as a whole and promotes the growth of each individual player. Tyler Roberson may serve as a clue and representative of what is going on. The book on Roberson has been that his career has been laced with inconsistency and you never knew which Tyler would show up. Anyone who has followed the program has seen the type of impact he can have when he is motivated and at the top of his game. After 4 years it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect personal growth from a player and have them find a way to be that "on" player. Outwardly, Roberson appears to be broken, and like Kaleb Joseph, a promising player who's confidence, completely shattered, simply cannot play at the level they are capable of. Frank Howard seems to suffering from the same malady.

Of all the kids I feel the most for Roberson. I recall the first interview of him which posted shortly after he had committed. I was struck by how soft spoken and unsure of himself that he appeared, almost like he was overwrought with social anxiety. I'm no psychologist but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a kid like that needs to be handled in a way different from say Rakeem Christmas or CJ Fair. It seems to me that the public way that JB humiliated him with the things he said during a presser last year IS NOT THE WAY to bring out the best in a player like Tyler Roberson. My take is that JB has lost Roberson and that's what we are seeing in him this season.

There's also much to be said about going out an recruiting mercenaries to help the program but giving preferential treatment to guys who are just passing through in a attempt to promote themselves on a big stage can wreak havoc with those kids who committed to come here and have dedicated their entire college career to the Syracuse program.

And lastly, Over the past 40 years I've seen the callous way that JB can be and there have been many times where I've cringed as he has attacked people during pressers and been totally disrespectful to people just because they asked a question. No need for that. I am keenly aware that he has done an incredible amount of charitable work and has a side that frankly, many do not see or know about. But JB, like all of us has come character defects and certainly has room for improvement as far as filtering some of the things that he says. Sometimes when you say things under the guise of just "telling it like it is" it can be hurtful and antithetical to those ends which you purport to achieve.

Certainly he has achieved much and is legendary in terms of the development of the zone defense, the longevity of his career, his body of charitable work on both the local and National level. But he has also because of his own actions put the program under sanctions from the NCAA twice and drawn criticism to himself and the program. His tenacity and what some would call stubbornness have been the things he has used to his advantage throughout his coaching career but there is an associated cost. Perhaps we are seeing that cost with this team. The college game has changed in all aspects of the game. Recruiting, schemes on both offense and defense. JB for the most part has not changed. He is who he is and what you see is what you get with JB. The fact that he refuses to play any M2M at all is illustrative of how dug in he is to sticking to his guns with what has been successful for him historically.

The fact that our storied program is having trouble attracting top 50 players to come here to play is a serious harbinger of a program heading into decline. Part of the reason that Cal has been able to recruit top talent where ever he has been is the fact that he has charisma and personality which inspires kids to what to come play for him. JB's curmudgeon persona is not the type of thing that kids in 2017 can relate to.

I'm incredibly grateful for all that JB has done in building our program form a regional power to an elite National Power renowned for 4 decades as possessing the most perplexing defense in the land. But I am deeply concerned that there is something currently keeping this team form coalescing into a unified team and that we are headed towards what will be a disastrous season which will be an embarrassment to all who have bled Orange for their entire lives.

JB stating " This is on me"... is encouraging if there is going to be any chance at all to salvage this season. The team that we saw yesterday will get decimated by ACC competition and it will be ugly and embarrassing. He has surrounded himself with a staff that are all homegrown Syracuse former players who do not have any outside cultivation and likely never question JB's judgement. It's almost like a herd with a stale gene pool which becomes susceptible to decline. JB has always said that he would turn turn the reins over when the day came that he felt that he didn't have the fire to coach anymore. The coach we saw yesterday at that press conference looks very much like the guy he described.
 
Wow, Flacusian, every single paragraph you wrote is thoughtful, compassionate and also unsparing. Most of us love JB and the program and reputation he has built over the years. 50's Syracuse football may have put us on the map but Boeheim has kept us there. In so many ways, he is irreplaceable. But he must be replaced and that looming eventuality is like the Sword of Damocles hanging over our program. AND hanging over his head.

I will divert to the personal for just a second. I gave my psychotherapy clients a year's heads up that I was retiring. I thought I was giving them a chance to finish up some of their issues and then peel away. Instead, almost all of them hung in there until my last week and the good-byes were fairly excruciating (although also nice). When I look back, I feel the knowledge of my departure was a pall that some of my clients couldn't negotiate well. I wish I had done things differently. Also, it was very hard on ME.

JB wants to go out on a high, not in disgrace. The pressure he has put on himself must be extreme. It is so hard to say good-bye. SO HARD. This is his core identity. I believe he is suffering but - as is often the case - he comes across as snide and derisive.

This can be turned around but, like Carolina, it may take a few years. How JB and the coaching staff handle this team in the next few weeks will be very telling. Blank slate, anyone?
 
Wow, Flacusian, every single paragraph you wrote is thoughtful, compassionate and also unsparing. Most of us love JB and the program and reputation he has built over the years. 50's Syracuse football may have put us on the map but Boeheim has kept us there. In so many ways, he is irreplaceable. But he must be replaced and that looming eventuality is like the Sword of Damocles hanging over our program. AND hanging over his head.

I will divert to the personal for just a second. I gave my psychotherapy clients a year's heads up that I was retiring. I thought I was giving them a chance to finish up some of their issues and then peel away. Instead, almost all of them hung in there until my last week and the good-byes were fairly excruciating (although also nice). When I look back, I feel the knowledge of my departure was a pall that some of my clients couldn't negotiate well. I wish I had done things differently. Also, it was very hard on ME.

JB wants to go out on a high, not in disgrace. The pressure he has put on himself must be extreme. It is so hard to say good-bye. SO HARD. This is his core identity. I believe he is suffering but - as is often the case - he comes across as snide and derisive.

This can be turned around but, like Carolina, it may take a few years. How JB and the coaching staff handle this team in the next few weeks will be very telling. Blank slate, anyone?
Bballbeadle, I too, feel for JB. He's been through a lot with all that's transpired since the Bernie Fine situation raised it's head. I believe all who love the basketball program have hoped for a smooth transition and perhaps JB going out on a high note of a 2nd National Championship. It seemed that we were flirting with one, especially the year that ended with Fab Melo's suspension when we were crushing it. But in spite of all the high expectations at this years start there can be no doubt that there is trouble in Cuseland.

It's said that pride comes before the fall and JB is very prideful. In the end it's imperative that you can relate to the players in a way that motivates them both individually and as a cohesive team. At yesterday's presser the sense of JB's feeling defeated and at a loss for answers was palpable. By all accounts everyone expected that this team would come together and be able to make some noise by years end. The systemic implosion that was yesterday's game is something I've not seen in 40 years of following the team. It's simply incomprehensible that those players can be so disjointed and undisciplined. There is something going on and it's tearing this group apart. JB may not have the answers... but unfortunately he is staring at negotiating the balance of the season with an enigma that defies explanation. For JB's sake, for the players sake, and for all who love the program I hope he can do something to turn things around.
 
There should be a statue built of JB in the middle of the quad within a year of him retiring. He's probably the most important person ever affiliated with Syracuse University.

That said, it's time. It's just time.
 
good stuff, Fla
Thanks Pearl. Ya know... I love this program and following Syracuse Basketball has been a wonderful thing for me since I was 17 years old. I'm going to be 61 in February and watching the 2nd half of the St. Johns game actually made my heart ache. It's really a sad thing to watch. To see the dejection in Coleman during the post game interview was actually painful. There's a kid who has really given his all to play here. Goodness... he deserves so much better. It's just really sad...
 
Thanks Pearl. Ya know... I love this program and following Syracuse Basketball has been a wonderful thing for me since I was 17 years old. I'm going to be 61 in February and watching the 2nd half of the St. Johns game actually made my heart ache. It's really a sad thing to watch. To see the dejection in Coleman during the post game interview was actually painful. There's a kid who has really given his all to play here. Goodness... he deserves so much better. It's just really sad...
Feel the same way. I posted last night that I felt heartbroken.
 
I still can't get over the St. Johns game. I went back and watched the 2nd half again. It was like the defense was giving up open looks like Christmas presents.
 
I still can't get over the St. Johns game. I went back and watched the 2nd half again. It was like the defense was giving up open looks like Christmas presents.

You are a glutton for punishment. I deleted my copy without watching one second of that half. By that point, we had guys in foul trouble and St John's was on a high . When a game is going that bad, it rarely gets better. Burn the tape, and move on.

But, let's be realistic here. Against a M2M defense, this team is going to struggle. The players aren't as good as we hoped. It isn't complicated.
 
They quit. JB lost the team that night. I dont think he has lost them for the year yet. He should meet with every player individually and have an open discussion about their issues concerns and expectations. In return he needs to convey his expectations of them as players and more importantly teammates. At that point in the event that there is any negative bs or discontent from any player going forward that player should be shown the door.
If it were my team i would change my substitution pattern as well. Lets take Frank as example. He would be told baring fouls or injury that i want you to play your heart out and im going with you until the 10 minute mark. Play hard no need to look over your shoulder. The same with each starter. At that 10 minute mark i would substitute for him sit him next to me and coach him. For each critical comment i would try my best to offer a positive.
My point is confidence building. The team is loaded with talent. As much as we have had in years. They lack confidence and heart. By clearly laying out expectations,and by defining their playing time they might just play looser and harder. I played for a hall of fame coach who employed this approach one year as we were deep. It worked. This is for a different reason but it may work
What i do know is that Jims fear motivation approach is not working with this group. They are playing way to tight and need to regain their confidence.
 
Flacusian said:
"There's also much to be said about going out an recruiting mercenaries to help the program but giving preferential treatment to guys who are just passing through in a attempt to promote themselves on a big stage can wreak havoc with those kids who committed to come here and have dedicated their entire college career to the Syracuse program."

I said yesterday and 2-3 weeks ago that this may be the crux of the problem with the team. John and AW seem like good guys, but they are not producing what everyone dreamed they would. Add this to the fact they are taking time away from players who have put in the time and effort they felt was going to put them in those positions and you have a situation that is uncomfortable at best.

JB has always said he plays men who produce in practice. I think the staff was overcome with AW's shooting ability and overlooked the flaws in his game. John is good for a change of pace but will never be adequate for extended ACC play. Size does matter.

AW playing extended minutes has impacted Roberson the most and like Flacusian I really feel bad seeing him broken to the point where he can't seem to muster his energy even some of the time.

JB and staff need to take a hard look at what this "group of players" has become. I didn't say" team" because I don't think we have one right now. Then they need to sit down with the players and lay all the cards on the table. Hopefully the outcome will be one that everyone, players and fans, can feel better about.

EDIT
Just read kcsu's post since I wrote mine. Well said and probably right in talking with players individually before they talk as a group.
I also agree that if there are any whiners, they need to do a 180 or find the nearest door.
 
Last edited:
I still can't get over the St. Johns game. I went back and watched the 2nd half again. It was like the defense was giving up open looks like Christmas presents.

You watched the 2nd half again??? I could have saved you some time and just come over and punched you in the face and kicked you between the legs for the same effect.
 
Certainly there have been some challenging issues which the program has been faced with in the past several seasons and the fact that we have recently been to two final fours has been something that many have pointed to as being emblematic of the state of the program...

but I don't think anyone saw this coming. The players which have taken to the floor this season unarguably are talented and the fact that many had not played together made it reasonable to expect that there would be some growing pains early on.

We've seen two disparate teams so far this season. There have been games, albeit against lesser competition, where they looked like they were going to run people off the floor. And then we have seen another team which looks hopelessly lost on both offense and defense and most alarmingly seem to play with no intensity, cohesion, pride, and desire.

Conspicuously missing has been any esprit d' corp. The sullen faces of many of the players, I'm looking at you Frank Howard, Tyus Battle, Tyler Roberson...tells a story of a team which is grappling with some issue which is causing dissension. Only time will tell and perhaps we will never have the opportunity to be privy to what is really going on within the team. But there can be no mistake that there is something which is having a profound impact on both the players individually and the team as a whole.

It's incumbent upon the head coach and his staff to foster an atmosphere of unity and cohesiveness which nurtures the team as a whole and promotes the growth of each individual player. Tyler Roberson may serve as a clue and representative of what is going on. The book on Roberson has been that his career has been laced with inconsistency and you never knew which Tyler would show up. Anyone who has followed the program has seen the type of impact he can have when he is motivated and at the top of his game. After 4 years it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect personal growth from a player and have them find a way to be that "on" player. Outwardly, Roberson appears to be broken, and like Kaleb Joseph, a promising player who's confidence, completely shattered, simply cannot play at the level they are capable of. Frank Howard seems to suffering from the same malady.

Of all the kids I feel the most for Roberson. I recall the first interview of him which posted shortly after he had committed. I was struck by how soft spoken and unsure of himself that he appeared, almost like he was overwrought with social anxiety. I'm no psychologist but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a kid like that needs to be handled in a way different from say Rakeem Christmas or CJ Fair. It seems to me that the public way that JB humiliated him with the things he said during a presser last year IS NOT THE WAY to bring out the best in a player like Tyler Roberson. My take is that JB has lost Roberson and that's what we are seeing in him this season.

There's also much to be said about going out an recruiting mercenaries to help the program but giving preferential treatment to guys who are just passing through in a attempt to promote themselves on a big stage can wreak havoc with those kids who committed to come here and have dedicated their entire college career to the Syracuse program.

And lastly, Over the past 40 years I've seen the callous way that JB can be and there have been many times where I've cringed as he has attacked people during pressers and been totally disrespectful to people just because they asked a question. No need for that. I am keenly aware that he has done an incredible amount of charitable work and has a side that frankly, many do not see or know about. But JB, like all of us has come character defects and certainly has room for improvement as far as filtering some of the things that he says. Sometimes when you say things under the guise of just "telling it like it is" it can be hurtful and antithetical to those ends which you purport to achieve.

Certainly he has achieved much and is legendary in terms of the development of the zone defense, the longevity of his career, his body of charitable work on both the local and National level. But he has also because of his own actions put the program under sanctions from the NCAA twice and drawn criticism to himself and the program. His tenacity and what some would call stubbornness have been the things he has used to his advantage throughout his coaching career but there is an associated cost. Perhaps we are seeing that cost with this team. The college game has changed in all aspects of the game. Recruiting, schemes on both offense and defense. JB for the most part has not changed. He is who he is and what you see is what you get with JB. The fact that he refuses to play any M2M at all is illustrative of how dug in he is to sticking to his guns with what has been successful for him historically.

The fact that our storied program is having trouble attracting top 50 players to come here to play is a serious harbinger of a program heading into decline. Part of the reason that Cal has been able to recruit top talent where ever he has been is the fact that he has charisma and personality which inspires kids to what to come play for him. JB's curmudgeon persona is not the type of thing that kids in 2017 can relate to.

I'm incredibly grateful for all that JB has done in building our program form a regional power to an elite National Power renowned for 4 decades as possessing the most perplexing defense in the land. But I am deeply concerned that there is something currently keeping this team form coalescing into a unified team and that we are headed towards what will be a disastrous season which will be an embarrassment to all who have bled Orange for their entire lives.

JB stating " This is on me"... is encouraging if there is going to be any chance at all to salvage this season. The team that we saw yesterday will get decimated by ACC competition and it will be ugly and embarrassing. He has surrounded himself with a staff that are all homegrown Syracuse former players who do not have any outside cultivation and likely never question JB's judgement. It's almost like a herd with a stale gene pool which becomes susceptible to decline. JB has always said that he would turn turn the reins over when the day came that he felt that he didn't have the fire to coach anymore. The coach we saw yesterday at that press conference looks very much like the guy he described.
Epic
 
There should be a statue built of JB in the middle of the quad within a year of him retiring. He's probably the most important person ever affiliated with Syracuse University.

That said, it's time. It's just time.
Name on the floor before 2003! Respect on that decision many years ago.
 
Epic
epic is right. the impact of grad transfers has impacted chemistry. they r not syracuse guys. i don't blame them they r trying to improve their stock, however they have no vested interest in team. i suspect their r locker room issues here.
 
epic is right. the impact of grad transfers has impacted chemistry. they r not syracuse guys. i don't blame them they r trying to improve their stock, however they have no vested interest in team. i suspect their r locker room issues here.

I have a hard time imagining White as a locker room issue. Gillon, I don't know, but I still think novice guard play is the biggest problem. That is on Frank, Tyus, and John mainly. All have been pitiful against anybody except patsies.
 
It only takes one player sowing the seeds of discontent to effect everyone.
 
They quit. JB lost the team that night. I dont think he has lost them for the year yet. He should meet with every player individually and have an open discussion about their issues concerns and expectations. In return he needs to convey his expectations of them as players and more importantly teammates. At that point in the event that there is any negative bs or discontent from any player going forward that player should be shown the door.
If it were my team i would change my substitution pattern as well. Lets take Frank as example. He would be told baring fouls or injury that i want you to play your heart out and im going with you until the 10 minute mark. Play hard no need to look over your shoulder. The same with each starter. At that 10 minute mark i would substitute for him sit him next to me and coach him. For each critical comment i would try my best to offer a positive.
My point is confidence building. The team is loaded with talent. As much as we have had in years. They lack confidence and heart. By clearly laying out expectations,and by defining their playing time they might just play looser and harder. I played for a hall of fame coach who employed this approach one year as we were deep. It worked. This is for a different reason but it may work
What i do know is that Jims fear motivation approach is not working with this group. They are playing way to tight and need to regain their confidence.
I think you would make a good coach! And a good psychologist.
 
Feel the same way. I posted last night that I felt heartbroken.
We were at a dear friend's house for Christmas, and have celebrated with them and their family for 25 years. We are all avid SU fans and avid Dems. If anyone strayed into either topic, people just shook their heads and said, "No! Let's not mention this today." We had fun, but it was definitely the most subdued gathering we've ever had. I also drank more than usual and by 10 p.m. I had a hangover! Bleh.

And "heart broken" was mentioned by several people regarding the team. I know I feel that way.
 
I have a hard time imagining White as a locker room issue. Gillon, I don't know, but I still think novice guard play is the biggest problem. That is on Frank, Tyus, and John mainly. All have been pitiful against anybody except patsies.

Yes. I don't see that locker room issues (unknown at this point) explain the inconsistent guard play of Howard & Battle. Or, for that matter, the inability of Coleman to finish, or the inability of Roberson to make shots or put the ball on the floor. It isn't the chemistry, it is the ingredients.
 

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