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Message: [QUOTE="Fat tire 13, post: 3829040, member: 6171"] This is a good debate Thankfully the Cy Young voters embrace the advanced stats, and DeGrom has won the awards. Same would hold true for his value if the Mets ever traded him. I remember Felix Hernandez being one of the first pitchers to win the Cy Young with a crappy W/L record. And lack of run support is not a recent phenomenon. Steve Carlton had a couple of awful years on the W/L side even when he pitched really well. Same deal for Nolan Ryan at times Overall I would say W/L has some value, but context matters a bunch more. And for better or worse, it is a stat with a long history, unlike some of the more recent advanced measures. [/QUOTE]