Skill position recruitng

[kingottoiii]

I went back and looked at Scout's rankings he is a list of Marrone current RBs who were Top 100 and current WRs who were Top 150:

RBs: McFarlane 74, AAM 93, Morris 97
WRs: West 128 (who luckily fell to us after not getting into Stanford)

For comparison our Northeast counterparts (all three went through coaching changes and one who was a MAC school):

RU
RBs: Huggins 4, Peoples 53, Jamison 81
WRs: Caroo 11, Shuler 16, Coleman 34, Thomas 64

UConn
RBs: None
WRs: Jones 121, Abrams 142

Temple
RBs: Gilmore 82
WRs: Belt 115

Also looking back at GRob's:

RBs: Collier 12, DC3 25
WRs: Lobdell 17, Sales 29, Lemon 139



Is there any surprise our O struggles when we haven't been recruiting worth a lick?

 

[reedny]

Well, as Terico said last night (Eagles/Pat's pre-season game), good coaches build their teams from the inside out.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, as Terico said last night (Eagles/Pat's pre-season game), good coaches build their teams from the inside out.

I guess that makes me feel better, since a lot of people are saying the line is the weak spot this season.

Wait...

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I went back and looked at Scout's rankings he is a list of Marrone current RBs who were Top 100 and current WRs who were Top 150:

RBs: McFarlane 74, AAM 93, Morris 97
WRs: West 128 (who luckily fell to us after not getting into Stanford)

For comparison our Northeast counterparts (all three went through coaching changes and one who was a MAC school):

RU
RBs: Huggins 4, Peoples 53, Jamison 81
WRs: Caroo 11, Shuler 16, Coleman 34, Thomas 64

UConn
RBs: None
WRs: Jones 121, Abrams 142

Temple
RBs: Gilmore 82
WRs: Belt 115

Also looking back at GRob's:

RBs: Collier 12, DC3 25
WRs: Lobdell 17, Sales 29, Lemon 139

Is there any surprise our O struggles when we haven't been recruiting worth a lick?

I don't get your point. Why are you comparing other teams' recruiting to Syracuse, then saying our offense sucks?

Rutgers has big name recruits, and their offense sucks. UCONN has no big name recruits, and their offense sucks.

G-Rob had higher ranked recruits and the offense sucked back then even worse than it does now.

 

[ImperialOrange]

RB: Gus Edwards 39
WR: Lemon 139, Funderburk 35
TE: Tyler Provo 22, Ron Thompson 13, Parris 55, Wales 57

 

[SoBristol]

You can extend the point and look at Louisville, South Florida and Pitt - and also look at the rankings of the OGs and OTs. Several of our rivals are starting with higher ranked talent in most positions on the offensive units. Doesn't mean it always comes together for them and sometimes guys like Bailey exceed expectations.
The highest rated guys on our offense are Broyld and Thompson, followed by Sales and Lemon.

 

[reedny]

I guess that makes me feel better, since a lot of people are saying the line is the weak spot this season.

Wait...

Just trying to stay positive here, even though I'm a cynic by nature.

 

[kingottoiii]

RB: Gus Edwards 39
WR: Lemon 139, Funderburk 35
TE: Tyler Provo 22, Ron Thompson 13, Parris 55, Wales 57

I am talking about our current struggles on O. That removes Funderburk and Edwards since they cannot help. In addition Funderburk is a transfer. Lemon was a GRob recruit. You want to add TEs fine I will give you Thompson as he is a Top 50 guy.

The whole point is we need more impact guys at RB and WR. You cannot expect to have a decent O with ALL under the radar kids. They are veyr important to a team and Marrone has done a fine job adding depth. But until we get some impact guys the O will struggle. In addition I realize that the Top recruits don't always pan out. But if you are essentially getting NONE of them, then it is hard to have a good O.

Rutgers stinks because they have no QB, a bad OL, and bad coaching. If we had one of those RBs or WRs that they have brought in the last three years then we would be a much better team. Thats the point. We will be limited until we can upgrade talent. And in reality from a playmaker perspective we have gone DOWN vs GRob.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I am talking about our current struggles on O. That removes Funderburk and Edwards since they cannot help. In addition Funderburk is a transfer. Lemon was a GRob recruit. You want to add TEs fine I will give you Thompson as he is a Top 50 guy.quote]
.

Inititially but Marrone choose to keep him and he never dressed in a Syracuse uniform while GRob was in town so he's a Marrone recruit IMO. We can agree to disagree if you want but there were quite a few GRob recruits that Marrone didn't see fit to keep offers for.

I get your point but Sales 29, Lemon 139 are still on the team this year. So that's 3 top 150 wr's, 3 top 100 RB's along with 3 top 60 TE's.

You also can't really compare RU w/ their commits mostly (all?) coming from their former coach

 

[anglerman]

SU hasn't played this year so stop assuming they are struggling on offense when you have no idea.

 

[SoBristol]

I agree with kingotto. It has been obvious what a real good running back can do for an offense (Ray Rice, Joe Morris, Deleone Carter) and the same for a real good WR (Mike Williams, Marvin Harrison). I wouldn't say that Coach Marrone has brought in superior OL talent either (good in numbers and size, though), but the gap in his body of work so far is the lack of WRs and RBs good enough to have early impact.

Yes, we can still hope the offense makes a big turnaround once the games start.

 

[Rocco]

I don't get your point. Why are you comparing other teams' recruiting to Syracuse, then saying our offense sucks?

Rutgers has big name recruits, and their offense sucks. UCONN has no big name recruits, and their offense sucks.

G-Rob had higher ranked recruits and the offense sucked back then even worse than it does now.

Exactly. Yet another reason why the recruiting sites and their rankings don't mean a whole lot.

 

[OrangeMojo]

I went back and looked at Scout's rankings he is a list of Marrone current RBs who were Top 100 and current WRs who were Top 150:

RBs: McFarlane 74, AAM 93, Morris 97
WRs: West 128 (who luckily fell to us after not getting into Stanford)

For comparison our Northeast counterparts (all three went through coaching changes and one who was a MAC school):

RU
RBs: Huggins 4, Peoples 53, Jamison 81
WRs: Caroo 11, Shuler 16, Coleman 34, Thomas 64

UConn
RBs: None
WRs: Jones 121, Abrams 142

Temple
RBs: Gilmore 82
WRs: Belt 115

Also looking back at GRob's:

RBs: Collier 12, DC3 25
WRs: Lobdell 17, Sales 29, Lemon 139



Is there any surprise our O struggles when we haven't been recruiting worth a lick?

All of those Rutgers recruits were before the coaching change - and their offense BLOWS

The offensive recruiting struggles by the staff have been debated over and over on this site - and yet the staff has gotten 3 top 100 RBs, some top 100 QBs and top 100 TEs. WR has been a struggle, but guys like Hale, Cornelius and Kobena have a lot of potential and they went and supplemented by getting a former top 50 WR to transfer in.

IMO there's plenty of talent on the roster to put up points with a good game plan and decent OL play - so I don't really agree with the premise of your post. Plus the recruiting seems to be building year over year and the majority of the OL talent seems to be among the young guys - so I think there's plenty of talent on hand to win games and the talent level is trending in the right direction.

 

[GoSU96]

I went back and looked at Scout's rankings he is a list of Marrone current RBs who were Top 100 and current WRs who were Top 150:

RBs: McFarlane 74, AAM 93, Morris 97
WRs: West 128 (who luckily fell to us after not getting into Stanford)

For comparison our Northeast counterparts (all three went through coaching changes and one who was a MAC school):

RU
RBs: Huggins 4, Peoples 53, Jamison 81
WRs: Caroo 11, Shuler 16, Coleman 34, Thomas 64

UConn
RBs: None
WRs: Jones 121, Abrams 142

Temple
RBs: Gilmore 82
WRs: Belt 115

Also looking back at GRob's:

RBs: Collier 12, DC3 25
WRs: Lobdell 17, Sales 29, Lemon 139



Is there any surprise our O struggles when we haven't been recruiting worth a lick?

Morris had a composite ranking at RB of 18th at his position. McFarland 47 ranked athlete. Thompson 12th TE. Year before Broyld was the 31st QB on Scout, Moore was the 39th RB on Rivals.


How predictive were those rankings for Collier and Lobdell? I'd say Lemon has had a better career than either of the higher ranked CBA kids had/have had to date.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I am talking about our current struggles on O. That removes Funderburk and Edwards since they cannot help. In addition Funderburk is a transfer. Lemon was a GRob recruit. You want to add TEs fine I will give you Thompson as he is a Top 50 guy.

The whole point is we need more impact guys at RB and WR. You cannot expect to have a decent O with ALL under the radar kids. They are veyr important to a team and Marrone has done a fine job adding depth. But until we get some impact guys the O will struggle. In addition I realize that the Top recruits don't always pan out. But if you are essentially getting NONE of them, then it is hard to have a good O.

Rutgers stinks because they have no QB, a bad OL, and bad coaching. If we had one of those RBs or WRs that they have brought in the last three years then we would be a much better team. Thats the point. We will be limited until we can upgrade talent. And in reality from a playmaker perspective we have gone DOWN vs GRob.

Otto is right on Rutgers there WR depth is scary good, if they had any sort of a QB they could have done some damage last year and this year.

 

[kingottoiii]

I agree with kingotto. It has been obvious what a real good running back can do for an offense (Ray Rice, Joe Morris, Deleone Carter) and the same for a real good WR (Mike Williams, Marvin Harrison). I wouldn't say that Coach Marrone has brought in superior OL talent either (good in numbers and size, though), but the gap in his body of work so far is the lack of WRs and RBs good enough to have early impact.

Those guys were studs I am not even asking for that. How much better would we be with a guy like Dee Brown or Malcolm Thomas at RB? How much better would we be with Jared Jones, Riddle, or Taj Smith at WR? I am not asking for the world here.

 

[kingottoiii]

How predictive were those rankings for Collier and Lobdell? I'd say Lemon has had a better career than either of the higher ranked CBA kids had/have had to date.

Collier is better IMO that anyone we currently have on our roster. His issue was academics. As to Lobdell, not all guys pan out. For every bust (Lobdell), there is a surprise (Mike Williams). But the law of averages says the top kids are less likely to be busts, than a non top kid is likely to be a stud.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I honestly don't know how anyone here can evaulate any of the running backs from a productivity perspective, we haven't seen enough of any of them really. Smith looked pretty good to me versus Pitt, Gulley has shown some progress and we know he is a bonehead off the field and probably a bit fumble prone, Morris is a frosh, and AAM was 30 pounds overweight last year, some due to injury some due to his own doing as well, I am sure but seriously we aren't dealing with a legit body of work with any of these guys.

I don't know if any of these kids can replace Bailey but certainly not going to say they can't, and certainly won't judge by rivals recruiting numbers.

Call me crazy

 

[RF2044]

Those guys were studs I am not even asking for that. How much better would we be with a guy like Dee Brown or Malcolm Thomas at RB? How much better would we be with Jared Jones, Riddle, or Taj Smith at WR? I am not asking for the world here.

Those two RBs are two of my all time favorites in SU history. Love both of those players. But while I'd feel more comfortable having those two lining up behind center than an unproven Smith / AAM / Gulley trio, I'm not sure that either of those guys would make us "better" with the OL we have. They were both tanks--so I suppose that they could get hit at the LOS and churn out yardage like Carter was forced to do two years ago, although I assume that Smith will prove more than capable of doing that, as well.

I wholeheartedly agree about WR--any of those players would make us better, and really compliment the core nucleus we have at WR this year.

There is no doubt that recruiting skilled players needs to improve. But recruiting overall is trending in the right direction. Certainly, recruiting at the RB position is going well [Morris and Edwards in the last two classes].

TE recruiting is extremely promising.

QB looks good [on paper], but I've gotten burned too many times in the past and will remain skeptical until a prospect finally pans out.

Funderburk was pennies from heaven--a real shot in the arm for the WR corps--but we need to upgrade the talent at wideout, long term.

 

[OrangePA]

I am talking about our current struggles on O. That removes Funderburk and Edwards since they cannot help. In addition Funderburk is a transfer. Lemon was a GRob recruit. You want to add TEs fine I will give you Thompson as he is a Top 50 guy.

The whole point is we need more impact guys at RB and WR. You cannot expect to have a decent O with ALL under the radar kids. They are veyr important to a team and Marrone has done a fine job adding depth. But until we get some impact guys the O will struggle. In addition I realize that the Top recruits don't always pan out. But if you are essentially getting NONE of them, then it is hard to have a good O.

Rutgers stinks because they have no QB, a bad OL, and bad coaching. If we had one of those RBs or WRs that they have brought in the last three years then we would be a much better team. Thats the point. We will be limited until we can upgrade talent. And in reality from a playmaker perspective we have gone DOWN vs GRob.

Yes.

Talent is the key.

We need more talent.

 

[GoSU96]

Collier is better IMO that anyone we currently have on our roster. His issue was academics. As to Lobdell, not all guys pan out. For every bust (Lobdell), there is a surprise (Mike Williams). But the law of averages says the top kids are less likely to be busts, than a non top kid is likely to be a stud.

Collier was better than any RB currently on the roster. Really, other than the fact that he couldn't stay in the program because he couldn't stop hitting the pipe, his entire career consisted of appearing in 4 games, 12 carries, and netting 86 yards, 60 of which was on one run.

How the can you make that claim based on that body of work?

Silly

 

[Millhouse]

Collier was better than any RB currently on the roster. Really, other than the fact that he couldn't stay in the program because he couldn't stop hitting the pipe, his entire career consisted of appearing in 4 games, 12 carries, and netting 86 yards, 60 of which was on one run.

How the can you make that claim based on that body of work?

Silly

my kingdom for a guy who can get 60 yards in one run

 

[kingottoiii]

How the can you make that claim based on that body of work?

Oh but people can make claims about how great our current RBs are and they have shown LESS than he did? Got it makes sense.

 

[reedny]

There's no point debating about 4/5 stars versus under the radar kids, because we get the best kids we can and then we balance them with kids we think have potential. The stars arn't always right, but 4 and 5 star kids are more likely to be impact players -- the past is a good predictor of the future, but not the only predictor. For the remainder of the recruits, our staff has done a great job of mining under-the-radar kids whose talents were mis/underrepresented in the star system. And I hope that continues.

All that said, I think most people would agree that we need some impact guys at the skill positions sprinkled over the top of the recruits with potential ... and that's King's point. The RB position this year (although we havn't started the season) appears to be illustrative -- the higher rated/impact guys are younger ... but already flashing their skills. Same at TE ... Thompson .. highly rated .. and proving why. In most cases, the stars are shining in our system (although not in every case, as with Lobdell, et al.).

Rutgers sucks because ... that's what Rutgers does. The only thing we can learn from them is not to do what they do.

 

[GoSU96]

my kingdom for a guy who can get 60 yards in one run

It wasn't Ant Bailey. He had two carrier carries over 50, a total of 6, including those, over 30. That is over 4 years.

Rhodes was the last RB that consistently delivered long runs. Morris strikes me as a kid in that mode.