So here's the biggest question after that game

[billsin01]

Are we worse on offense or defense?

On offense we shot 38% against a team that had zero rim protection and hoisted 23 threes. We continually missed getting the ball to lydon when he had position in the post and despite the fact that Coleman played 30 minutes and had a ton of success inside, we managed to get him a total of 7 shots. Roberson and Howard -- two keys to our final four run last season -- didn't play while AWIII shot 15 mostly terrible shots.

On defense, it wasn't just that we gave up 50% shooting and a ton of open 3s, it's that Wisconsin did everything they wanted so easily. 21 assists. Tons of uncontested looks.

The wild card is do you blame the rebounding on the offense or the defense because we were -15 in that department.

Wow. I can remember teams that didn't look very good on one side or the other but to be so ugly on both ends of the floor is disconcerting to say the least.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Last year's Wisconsin game was worse. They truly sucked in that game and still beat us at home. This team we played tonight executed better than any team I've ever seen us play. It happens. Don't cancel the season just yet. If we lose to Yukon, then you can cancel the season.

 

[FrancoPizza]

My biggest questions are actually addressed to Hop:

Hop - seeing as the dukes and Kentuckys are taking all the elite playmaking talent, will you plan to run anything resembling a structured offense when this becomes your team?

And do you think teaching good m2m should be made legal in NYS?

 

[billsin01]

Last year's Wisconsin game was worse. They truly sucked in that game and still beat us at home. This team we played tonight executed better than any team I've ever seen us play. It happens. Don't cancel the season just yet. If we lose to Yukon, then you can cancel the season.

I'm definitely not cancelling the season but while I was impressed with Wisconsin's execution I really don't think we did a thing defensively to disrupt them. It was extremely passive and slow tonight. That's not a good sign.

 

[billsin01]

My biggest questions are actually addressed to Hop:

Hop - seeing as the dukes and Kentuckys are taking all the elite playmaking talent, will you plan to run anything resembling a structured offense when this becomes your team?

And do you think teaching good m2m should be made legal in NYS?

Those are certainly interesting questions. I'm not too concerned with the type of defense they play but I do wonder what changes he might consider.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I'm definitely not cancelling the season but while I was impressed with Wisconsin's execution I really don't think we did a thing defensively to disrupt them. It was extremely passive and slow tonight. That's not a good sign.

It was, but there were some flashes on both sides of the ball tonight. It just may be that they'll take longer than we thought to come together. It is clear to me that they are novice at the zone but are improving in some ways. Wisc was on fire tonight which compounds the problems. But their passing was phenomenal. Honestly, if that team is going to shoot 50% from 3 (for any reason), it would take a truly outstanding effort for us to beat them because they have so many other traits almost specifically designed to give us trouble.

On offense, they just don't look like they know what to do. Gillon spends more time dribbling backwards towards half court in our offensive sets than he does doing anything else. Yet when he drove to the rim it was basically points every time.

Tonight definite was awful across the board but this team is no where near as bad as they seem right now and they'll have success this year.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

After last night, I say the defense is worse than the offense. And our ability to rebound just plain sucks. What has happened to Tyler Roberson? He's been absolutely non existent over the last two games...

 

[STEVEHOLT]

As an astute poster who shall remain nameless related to me

How is it that we were both leaving them wide open for three point shot after three point shot...YET STILL were not in position to rebound? I mean where were these guys? in the concession stands?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

After last night, I say the defense is worse than the offense. And our ability to rebound just plain sucks. What has happened to Tyler Roberson? He's been absolutely non existent over the last two games...

you dont remember last year when he'd disappear for games at a time? we seem to only remember his big games, but he had plenty of stinkers. it is who he is..an inconsistent destitute mans Rodman.

 

[hoopsupstate]

They shot 50% from three because they had uncontested looks. Any team that gets that many wide open shots is going to shoot a high percentage. Our forwards (Tyler's) are doing basically nothing on offense and defense. Lydon had at least three rebounds go through his hands or out muscled by Wisconsin. He also had a terrible turnover that led to an easy basket. Of course, JB blames Howard and yanks him out of the game when Lydon was the one who screwed up. SU could have pounded the ball into Coleman all night but didn't. Lydon has to get his butt inside and stay away from just jacking up three pointers. It's was clear that once Wisconsin put an athletic guy on White he was no longer going to get open looks. EVeryone can say it's only 5 games, but this team has many fatal flaws. Number one, is that they don't play hard and they can't or won't pass the ball.

 

[NorSyr66]

Those are certainly interesting questions. I'm not too concerned with the type of defense they play but I do wonder what changes he might consider.

Unfortunately JB's 2/3 zone takes time to pick up. It is a constant adjusting and amoeba-like flowing system. His snarly comment to a reporter in the post game press conference basically said "it is not simple, it takes about 4 hours to understand the options". At this point he is driving an eight speed racing car with only 2 gears available. It is pure and simply going to take time for all the parts to start working together. I do agree the team is getting down on itself too easily but they do need to see some positive signs to get them flowing again. Starting to wonder if the one and done grad school transfers are a good option for a team that takes nearly a year to fit together in a 2/3 zone. Lastly.....where has Roberson disappeared to?

 

[Col. Bleep]

There are a few big questions:

1. Why didn't Tyler Roberson make the trip to Madison? He certainly wasn't in the game.

2. Does anyone realize that just hoisting miscellaneous 3-pointers is not an offense?

3. Has anyone started teaching the guards how to play the top of the zone?

4. Most of the front court is experienced. Have they been instructed not to box out or rebound?

4. Can a team with a suspect defense, without an offense or any apparent team leader beat any strong opponent?

The Orange have work to do before they jell.

 

[weepeel]

You are really seeing a lack of leadership...both silent g and cooney provided a presence and leadership that roberson and coleman just cant provide.

I am shocked that roberson isnt playing like a mad man since this is his last year to audition to whatever his next step is.

Thompson was consistently out of position of defense and was bullied down low by Happ. Hopefully he will learn the zone as the season progresses.

In Lydons defense, there have been several games where he was wide open and none of the guards or AWIII made an effort to get him the ball. Boheim has to draw more plays up for him...I would trust Lydon's iso game over anyone on this team on offense.

I am still waiting on Battle to EARN that reputation of a stud that was given to him.

College basketball is a game won by guards...our guards are looking like they are in the lower half of the ACC at the moment.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm definitely not cancelling the season but while I was impressed with Wisconsin's execution I really don't think we did a thing defensively to disrupt them. It was extremely passive and slow tonight. That's not a good sign.

We had so many opportunities to trap and we just absolutely failed to execute. And I'll harp on this until my fingers fall off, but if you are putting your arm up on a shooter after you get to him, you are too late. GET YOUR ARMS UP ON D!!!!!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

After last night, I say the defense is worse than the offense. And our ability to rebound just plain sucks. What has happened to Tyler Roberson? He's been absolutely non existent over the last two games...

He had foul trouble last night and played like he was worried about picking up more. He went for an offensive board, jumped straight up next to a Wiscy player, and got called for over the back, despite outjumping and being next to, but not on top of the other player.

 

[OttoMets]

...

On offense, they just don't look like they know what to do. Gillon spends more time dribbling backwards towards half court in our offensive sets than he does doing anything else. Yet when he drove to the rim it was basically points every time.

Tonight definite was awful across the board but this team is no where near as bad as they seem right now and they'll have success this year.

Kaleb Joseph got crushed on this board for doing that. I wonder when Gillon will be open to that criticism. Maybe when Boeheim gives the all clear?

 

[billsin01]

We had so many opportunities to trap and we just absolutely failed to execute. And I'll harp on this until my fingers fall off, but if you are putting your arm up on a shooter after you get to him, you are too late. GET YOUR ARMS UP ON D!!!!!

A bunch of passes could have been tipped but all our hands were at our sides -- the guards were the worst offenders.

 

[OttoMets]

A bunch of passes could have been tipped but all our hands were at our sides -- the guards were the worst offenders.

Yeah, for as disciplined as their passing was, it wasn't always crisp. I might have counted ten steals that SU left out there.

 

[billsin01]

There are a few big questions:

1. Why didn't Tyler Roberson make the trip to Madison? He certainly wasn't in the game.

Roberson has taken a bunch of heat here, deservedly so in many cases I would say, but I think his biggest issue this season is how do you play him? Everyone's jacking shots, there's no penetration or ball movement. That leads to Roberson being ineffective on offense along with Coleman or Chukwu (DC's solid night last night not withstanding) and you're playing 3-on-5 which is obviously not sustainable. It's an ugly scene right now.

 

[OttoMets]

Roberson has taken a bunch of heat here, deservedly so in many cases I would say, but I think his biggest issue this season is how do you play him? Everyone's jacking shots, there's no penetration or ball movement. That leads to Roberson being ineffective on offense along with Coleman or Chukwu (DC's solid night last night not withstanding) and you're playing 3-on-5 which is obviously not sustainable. It's an ugly scene right now.

He's been ineffective, but Roberson as criticism magnet usually strikes me as off-base. He doesn't have the kind of skills that can be imposed on our offense. Not, at least, with our horrific spacing (it was like night and day watching Michigan State and Duke run sets with all the room in the world) and a coaching staff that just doesn't prioritize feeding the post.

Get him a couple cheap fouls when he appears to go straight up for a rebound and what's he supposed to do? He's still hustling after loose balls and sprinting down the court ahead of the pack on offense.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Look, I can understand and be ok with losing to two quality, really well-coached teams away from the Dome. But to get absolutely punked in both games, show no ability to play offense or defense or look anything like a good team is pretty disheartening. This team either needs to try something different defensively (not happening) or somehow figure out the nuances, spacing and rotation needed to succeed in the zone ASAP. On offense, I think it's sort of hopeless. We don't have the playmaking ability or the skill to run the offense that JB refuses to deviate from. This Iso offense, with the one pick and roll from DC with this team's offensive talent is mind boggling wrong. This is a team that should be focused on quick ball movement, ball reversals, constant movement and screening away from the ball. Getting the shooters open looks, while creating more opportunities closer to the rim for DC/TR/TL should be the goal. Instead, we dribble around out top, pass to one guy who then has to try to fire up a mediocre jump shot. Watching SC and Wisco run quality offensive sets with the knowledge of what they needed to do compared to our clusterf*** of a half-court O was night and day.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Thompson was consistently out of position of defense and was bullied down low by Happ. Hopefully he will learn the zone as the season progresses.

Too much finger pointing at the players. The zone by its nature puts our defenders at a disadvantage to deal with physical inside play. Guys like Hap can seek out positioning behind the zone while our guys are busy watching the ball. We need athletic forwards with great weakside instincts to help erase mistakes when the zone breaks down and we need a center that can at least hold his ground in the paint. We have neither. This is not even addressing the penetration issues up top. It's a good thing JB said they'll be using m2m as the situation calls for it this year.

Maybe they'll start to learn the slides by February but by then we could be squarely on the bubble between the NIT and CBI. Let's be realistic - this is a bad zone team given the personnel. I can't remember a season where we looked this lost on both ends of the court. Probably have to go back to the Celuck days.

 

[Col. Bleep]

He's been ineffective, but Roberson as criticism magnet usually strikes me as off-base. He doesn't have the kind of skills that can be imposed on our offense. Not, at least, with our horrific spacing (it was like night and day watching Michigan State and Duke run sets with all the room in the world) and a coaching staff that just doesn't prioritize feeding the post.

Get him a couple cheap fouls when he appears to go straight up for a rebound and what's he supposed to do? He's still hustling after loose balls and sprinting down the court ahead of the pack on offense.

Fair enough...and he was in foul trouble.
But he's counted on to rebound and play D.
Although it's also true that no one else did much of that either and Roberson's 2 boards in 13 minutes is still better than Coleman getting all of 3 rebounds in 30 minutes.