So Many True Freshmen

[TheOrangeBuddha]

I realize several of the true freshmen that played were necessary because they beat out all others to earn a spot on the two-deep. However, to ruin any hope of a redshirt to enable a kid to play meaningless snaps with third and fourth team players in the final quarter of a blowout seems to be a VERY shortsighted decision.

Why play Tyrone Perkins, Kenterious Womack or Cody Conway in this game. One would assume all three would be best suited being redshirted.

At tackle, McGloster needs the work. If Conway has indeed passed him, it is even more important to allow Conway to redshirt. Only if a 4th tackle is needed because of injury or suspension should Conway have played. He sure. As heck wasn't needed versus Rhode Island. And hopefully he's not needed the rest of the year.

Perkins and Womack make no sense to me. None. My hope is that since the redshirt is no longer needed, they each get more opportunities throughout the season. However me I highly doubt it.

Defensively playing Amir Ealy, Anthony Giudice, Kielan Whitner and Daivon Ellison left me scratching my head. The defensive coaches needed to burn Clark and Sheppard's redshirt. But why play Ealy and Giudice? Same in the defensive backfield. Unless these guys are absolutely necessary for special teams (if they are, we've missed out on too many recruiting classes), does anyone really think any of these four will see meaningful minutes the rest of the season? I guess a better way to say it would be, if the injury bug doesn't totally destroy us, why would these guys see the field?

In my opinion SU football would've been better off seeing these guys on the field as fifth year seniors then they will this year in mop up duty.

Thought?

Peace

 

[BVille44]

In my opinion this coaching staff is not concerned about blowing anyone's redshirt since they may not even be here in 2019 if they do not get back to a bowl game in the 2015 or 2016 season. They are going to do whatever is necessary to keep the 1st and 2nd string players healthy after last season.

I feel for Hunt after everything he has gone through with his parents dying and now losing the chance to play in his senior year but Dungey getting all the snaps this season may be the best thing that ever happened to this program. We no longer have to worry about having a dominant defense next season with an inexperienced QB.

 

[skytop44]

This staff knows they need to win this year. While everyone would love for the freshman to red shirt, I totally understand playing that many in game one.

 

[orangeinohio]

I know what you're saying but I think it was a good opportunity to build some depth, in a low-pressure situation. After all the injuries last year, the staff might be concerned about the huge potential impact of injuries.

Also -
There's reasons for optimism but it's going to be a tough season. They're going to need everything they've got, maybe even Perkins, Womack, and Conway.

 

[baggerbob]

I realize several of the true freshmen that played were necessary because they beat out all others to earn a spot on the two-deep. However, to ruin any hope of a redshirt to enable a kid to play meaningless snaps with third and fourth team players in the final quarter of a blowout seems to be a VERY shortsighted decision.

Why play Tyrone Perkins, Kenterious Womack or Cody Conway in this game. One would assume all three would be best suited being redshirted.

At tackle, McGloster needs the work. If Conway has indeed passed him, it is even more important to allow Conway to redshirt. Only if a 4th tackle is needed because of injury or suspension should Conway have played. He sure. As heck wasn't needed versus Rhode Island. And hopefully he's not needed the rest of the year.

Perkins and Womack make no sense to me. None. My hope is that since the redshirt is no longer needed, they each get more opportunities throughout the season. However me I highly doubt it.

Defensively playing Amir Ealy, Anthony Giudice, Kielan Whitner and Daivon Ellison left me scratching my head. The defensive coaches needed to burn Clark and Sheppard's redshirt. But why play Ealy and Giudice? Same in the defensive backfield. Unless these guys are absolutely necessary for special teams (if they are, we've missed out on too many recruiting classes), does anyone really think any of these four will see meaningful minutes the rest of the season? I guess a better way to say it would be, if the injury bug doesn't totally destroy us, why would these guys see the field?

In my opinion SU football would've been better off seeing these guys on the field as fifth year seniors then they will this year in mop up duty.

Thought?

Peace

McGloster played, Conway beat out Lasker at LT, Ellison was already in the game at the opening Kickoff.

 

[tbonezone]

DESPERATION.
why don't you come to your senses...

 

[Bayside44]

The coaches aren't playing for 1919. They also want to show the new boss how much better their new recruits are than what's been around from the last guy.

 

[upperdeck]

the kids dont want to RS, the goal is to recruit over them every year. if they are ready to play play them.

 

[RoofBeam]

I think you could make the case for a few of the players that it would have been in their long term best interests to redshirt but if it is going to be all hands on deck then it makes sense to start the season that way. I mean, if you have made the determination that a kid is ready to contribute then having the courage of those convictions at the outset seems preferable to putting in someone for 3 plays in game 10.

 

[SUalldway]

the kids dont want to RS, the goal is to recruit over them every year. if they are ready to play play them.

Enough of this setting up for next year or year after that. Just win and win now. Beat Wake now!

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I realize several of the true freshmen that played were necessary because they beat out all others to earn a spot on the two-deep. However, to ruin any hope of a redshirt to enable a kid to play meaningless snaps with third and fourth team players in the final quarter of a blowout seems to be a VERY shortsighted decision.

Why play Tyrone Perkins, Kenterious Womack or Cody Conway in this game. One would assume all three would be best suited being redshirted.

At tackle, McGloster needs the work. If Conway has indeed passed him, it is even more important to allow Conway to redshirt. Only if a 4th tackle is needed because of injury or suspension should Conway have played. He sure. As heck wasn't needed versus Rhode Island. And hopefully he's not needed the rest of the year.

Perkins and Womack make no sense to me. None. My hope is that since the redshirt is no longer needed, they each get more opportunities throughout the season. However me I highly doubt it.

Defensively playing Amir Ealy, Anthony Giudice, Kielan Whitner and Daivon Ellison left me scratching my head. The defensive coaches needed to burn Clark and Sheppard's redshirt. But why play Ealy and Giudice? Same in the defensive backfield. Unless these guys are absolutely necessary for special teams (if they are, we've missed out on too many recruiting classes), does anyone really think any of these four will see meaningful minutes the rest of the season? I guess a better way to say it would be, if the injury bug doesn't totally destroy us, why would these guys see the field?

In my opinion SU football would've been better off seeing these guys on the field as fifth year seniors then they will this year in mop up duty.

Thought?

Peace

No, just no. If true freshman are not making an immediate impact, you are not getting it done on the recruiting front. The redshirting thing is to a significant extent, old school.

 

[PhatOrange]

I could care less if the kids redshirt or not anymore but where this will come back to bite us is when they're all seniors. We might lose more kids that year than we can replace.

 

[Crusty]

Let the best players play!

 

[OrangeMojo]

The way of the world now - these kids are coming in physically and mentally ready to play from day 1. If you watch a Fla St or Alabama or any other program these days you'll hear about freshman playing all over the place. (please, no replies saying SU isn't one of those programs and needs the extra year for their players - these kids that got in were ready to go and so will be the kids they recruit next year to replace them)

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

No doubt that certain of the kids that played Friday were absolutely ready to go ... And were easily on the two deep. The above original post wasn't talking about those kids.

We will have to see whether Conway, Ellison, Perkins, Womack, Early, Giudice and Whitner get any meaningful snaps going forward.

My guess is that they won't and the program will regret having blown an opportunity.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Just win and win now.

Most definitely.

 

[All4SU]

The coaches aren't playing for 1919. They also want to show the new boss how much better their new recruits are than what's been around from the last guy.

I hope they are not playing for 1919. Or we will be playing THESE guys.

 

[RF2044]

The way of the world now - these kids are coming in physically and mentally ready to play from day 1. If you watch a Fla St or Alabama or any other program these days you'll hear about freshman playing all over the place. (please, no replies saying SU isn't one of those programs and needs the extra year for their players - these kids that got in were ready to go and so will be the kids they recruit next year to replace them)

Yeah, but...

There's a reason that those teams don't redshirt--because many of their prospects are early entry risks. So if they redshirt them, and then lose them in 2-3 years, they've squandered a year of "value" they can get from the player. And of course, they are also getting the best of the top prospects, who are generally better, more physically ready to contribute, etc.

I'm not buying the argument that we should emulate what those programs do, because we don't recruit at the same level. They're not worrying about redshirting because the next guy they recruit will undoubtedly be equally as good.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Isn't there school that routinely plays all its' freshmen, then redshirts players as sophs?

 

[TheCusian]

No doubt that certain of the kids that played Friday were absolutely ready to go ... And were easily on the two deep. The above original post wasn't talking about those kids. We will have to see whether Conway, Ellison, Perkins, Womack, Early, Giudice and Whitner get any meaningful snaps going forward. My guess is that they won't and the program will regret having blown an opportunity.

Ellison and Womack both play special teams. Whitner is the 4th safety (one nick from playing). Conway is on the two deep as well.

If they have played their way into the 2 deep or specials - I have zero problem with it.

 

[RF2044]

I could care less if the kids redshirt or not anymore but where this will come back to bite us is when they're all seniors. We might lose more kids that year than we can replace.

That's an interesting point that I haven't seen raised anywhere before.

 

[Chip]

I could care less if the kids redshirt or not anymore but where this will come back to bite us is when they're all seniors. We might lose more kids that year than we can replace.

That's a good point. If you redshirt most of the kids one year, then play most of your true freshmen the next year, you're creating a roster issue down the road, either for yourself, or the next guy (guess you wouldn't care much about his problems).

As to Buddha's post, I just think it depends on the player and their potential contribution. Line of scrimmage players, especially at SU where we don't typically recruit game ready freshman, almost always need that year. I realize that DL depth issues, and the above average strength of guys like Clark can change that theory, but it should still hold for most.

Some of them are just no brainers. Frederick, Strickland, Ishmael (last year), Philips (last year), etc.. These guys can contribute right away and make an impact. They should see the field.

Dungey, eh, it was debated all last week, and then at the end of the day the whole situation changed on one early season play so it didn't matter. Unfortunate part is how far behind the two other QBs in between appear to be.

Those that played in mop up the other night, I hope that doesn't end up being all they did. Or I hope they make some impact in practice that helps the team. If they are on the scout team, then I think it's a waste. Can't use the "coaches aren't playing for 2019" argument for kids who aren't going to impact 2015 anyway.

 

[SU68]

Don't forget that many of these guys came here because they saw the opportunity to play right away. If they wanted to sit out a year, they might have gone elsewhere.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I could care less if the kids redshirt or not anymore but where this will come back to bite us is when they're all seniors. We might lose more kids that year than we can replace.

Only 8 kids on this year's team are RF's:

Rodney Williams
Juwan Dowels
Cordell Hudson
Kayton Samuels
Aaron Roberts
Denzel Ward
Adly Enoicy
Chris Slayton

Plus the 13 scholarship true frosh who played:

Eric Dungey
Kenterius Womack
Dontae Strickland
Daivon Ellison
Jordan Fredericks
Kielan Whitner
Tyrone Perkins
Matt Keller
Cody Conway
Steven Clark
Anthony Giudice
Qaadir Sheppard
Amir Ealey

Leaves us 21 kids to be replaced after the 2018 season.

 

[tep624]

You can't look at redshirting in a vacuum. If we were a team that had quality depth on the 2 deep heading into this season (and by quality depth I mean guys capable of starting at other peer schools), then you'd be in a position to redshirt at will. We aren't. If we have someone who is currently better at OT than Lasker and Burton, who IMO are not quality depth, then he should be getting reps immediately as the season permits. I personally don't want to see a repeat of what happened with the OLine. Having Conway sit if he's clearly the better option just doesn't make any sense. And likewise, if Adams is already an improvement over McGloster, then he should be getting reps as well. I'd much rather have McGloster, Lasker and Burton beat out and sitting at 3rd string or below than not.

I'm thinking Womack is in a similar situation where he's being groomed to be on the WR 2 deep this year.

I will admit I was surprised to see Perkins, in light of our depth at the H Back position and with him coming off injury. But that may have been directly related to Erv getting banged up, McFarlane being banged up, and Harris not being a realistic full time back once we head into the meat of our schedule.

I honestly think that it's more of a case of these kids being upgrades over the current roster than desperation. And it showed, on both sides of the ball. They really did look good.