so Phat asked for It

[upperdeck]

Just one example of the dozens that went wrong in this game..

Clemson 6 in the box. we are running 3 wide 1 TE set..

first the slot guy is uncovered did we ever throw that 3-5 yd pass one time?
second you need to be able to run from this formation. Pulled the guard.
TE is playing the DE straight up. the tackle pushes the other DE deep and the center guard handle the nose.

now the center has no one to block but a LB. the pulling guard is in the hole fine. The TE has whiffed the block and still just 6 in the box. the pulling guard is helping on the the DT, the RG has turned the NT out of the play.

the middle LB splits the block, the TE missed the block, the guard/tackle are blocking one guy.. The RT needs to take he inside LB on his shoulder and the guard the other LB. Still no safety help.. instead we double a guy miss the other and mess up the TE block.. our Oline cant block LBs let alone the Dline.. no problem with the call on 3rd 11, it should gain 6-8 not zero.. setting up a shot at a short 4th down play. if you control the inside LBS the 2 outside Dbs have to crash down and 8 is getting there the other maybe makes a trip tackle to a RB a speed.

 

[Cuse12]

Just one example of the dozens that went wrong in this game..

Clemson 6 in the box. we are running 3 wide 1 TE set..

first the slot guy is uncovered did we ever throw that 3-5 yd pass one time?
second you need to be able to run from this formation. Pulled the guard.
TE is playing the DE straight up. the tackle pushes the other DE deep and the center guard handle the nose.

View attachment 170040


now the center has no one to block but a LB. the pulling guard is in the hole fine. The TE has whiffed the block and still just 6 in the box. the pulling guard is helping on the the DT, the RG has turned the NT out of the play.

View attachment 170041

the middle LB splits the block, the TE missed the block, the guard/tackle are blocking one guy.. The RT needs to take he inside LB on his shoulder and the guard the other LB. Still no safety help.. instead we double a guy miss the other and mess up the TE block.. our Oline cant block LBs let alone the Dline.. no problem with the call on 3rd 11, it should gain 6-8 not zero.. setting up a shot at a short 4th down play. if you control the inside LBS the 2 outside Dbs have to crash down and 8 is getting there the other maybe makes a trip tackle to a RB a speed.

View attachment 170042

If you posted more of these kind of posts I would not be mad. I like when people who know more then me explain these things and to have a clear screen shot to back it up is awesome. Anymore plays you saw that were missed opportunities etc? Appreciate the break down.

 

[Chip]

Who did Clemson #3 blow by (Alexander)? Wow.

Looks like he blew by the TE, Hackett.

Xavier Thomas vs almost anyone is a mismatch. But one on one against the TE? Yeah...

 

[reedny]

Looks like he blew by the TE, Hackett.

Xavier Thomas vs almost anyone is a mismatch. But one on one against the TE? Yeah...

We need someone quicker there. Even a smaller player that can delay him a second would be better than a matador.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We left points on the field in the first half. After rewatching the game I felt the OL was serviceable the first 20 mins. Then Clemson started bringing it.

I don’t blame the coaches for the lack of O in the first half. The kids didn’t execute all that well. Also Clemson was playing us differently. The last few years we saw a 4 man line and they played more base, respecting Dungey’s ability to run. This year we saw a 3 man line and no fear of a QB taking off from a pass rush.

However the coaches needed to adjust better. At the end of the first half we dumped it to the RBs. Why was that not used more 2nd half. The slots rarely had defenders lined up near them, yet we didn’t see short passes to them.

The was a good endzone shot in the 2nd half on I believe a 4th and 2. There was not a single defender in the middle of the field. If we slip a WR/RB/TE there, Tommy could have shot putted it there and the receiver would still be running. Being that they were bringing LBs right up the middle, you have to think the middle was open often. Why we didn’t even try to attack where the blitzers came from us boggling.

 

[PhatOrange]

This is great thanks, I appreciate it. This is also a great example where would could use a RB who quickly sees a tractor trailer size hole to his left and just bounces it sideways. This happens more often than not and I railed on it all last year.

When he takes the hand off the left side hole is already there so it's not like it'd be a huge adlib. I don't know what he's seeing looking straight ahead at a mass of people. At the 15 yard line the hole should be clear as day to a back with good vision and he'd only have the DB at the 22 yrd line who's ignoring the slot receiver.

 

[qdawgg]

This is great thanks, I appreciate it. This is also a great example where would could use a RB who quickly sees a tractor trailer size hole to his left and just bounces it sideways. This happens more often than not and I railed on it all last year.

When he takes the hand off the left side hole is already there so it's not like it'd be a huge adlib. I don't know what he's seeing looking straight ahead at a mass of people. At the 15 yard line the hole should be clear as day to a back with good vision and he'd only have the DB at the 22 yrd line who's ignoring the slot receiver.

I don’t know if this applies to DB or not, maybe care taker would know but there are coaches that want you to run the play, hit the hole exactly as the play is designed. So it’s possible he doesn’t/didn’t have the vision or the RB’s know, if you want to play you run the play as designed. DB wants things done exactly his way, nothing wrong with that, curious if that is the reason.

 

[rmtsu]

If we continue to run straight up the middle we are going to struggle against everyone, granted it was Clemson but we struggled against Maryland and Liberty and now teams have seen what we do or refuse to do. We don't have the personnel right now on the OLine to count on straight up block let alon this type of pull blocking scheme.

Vettorelo, leaves the man infront of him to block down on the LB, So RG Davis is supposed to make it over to block the end who crashes down, doesn't even hesitate and whiffs leading to another tackle in the backfield.

This kind of stuff is happening over and over again. Partially I don't think we have the personell to block this kind of play because is happens against everyone we play, maybe not as bad as against Clemson but wasn't much better in either of the first 2 games.

So even if we get to the edge defender this probably isn't going for much, but the bigger problem is that this isn't an isolated case, running up the middle virtually every play Clemson brought guys straight up the middle, and the edge guys crashed down with no fear the play was going out side. I can put more examples up but its nauseating to watch, there was another 3 and 2 I believe and Clemson brought 6 guys straight up the 2 LB's came through the middle virtually untouched for another 3 yard loss as we were handing off. I don't care how good your OLine is when the D is coming straight for the handoff point straight up the middle with 5-6 guys you aren't going to be successful, Clemson didn't start picking up yards on the ground till they started going outside which helped to wear us down also. If I were a running back recruit and saw this game after game, I wouldn't want to come here.

Hoping the play calling starts getting more imaginitive this is going hold the offense back, Devito doesn't need to be the runner Dungey was but we need to be able have him run a little to help if we are going to continually run straight up the middle and drop straight back with long developing pass plays. Yes we need to block better but we seem to whiff on the one guy or 2 that can make the play.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If we continue to run straight up the middle we are going to struggle against everyone, granted it was Clemson but we struggled against Maryland and Liberty and now teams have seen what we do or refuse to do. We don't have the personnel right now on the OLine to count on straight up block let alon this type of pull blocking scheme.

View attachment 170050

Vettorelo, leaves the man infront of him to block down on the LB, So RG Davis is supposed to make it over to block the end who crashes down, doesn't even hesitate and whiffs leading to another tackle in the backfield.

View attachment 170051

This kind of stuff is happening over and over again. Partially I don't think we have the personell to block this kind of play because is happens against everyone we play, maybe not as bad as against Clemson but wasn't much better in either of the first 2 games.

View attachment 170052

So even if we get to the edge defender this probably isn't going for much, but the bigger problem is that this isn't an isolated case, running up the middle virtually every play Clemson brought guys straight up the middle, and the edge guys crashed down with no fear the play was going out side. I can put more examples up but its nauseating to watch, there was another 3 and 2 I believe and Clemson brought 6 guys straight up the 2 LB's came through the middle virtually untouched for another 3 yard loss as we were handing off. I don't care how good your OLine is when the D is coming straight for the handoff point straight up the middle with 5-6 guys you aren't going to be successful, Clemson didn't start picking up yards on the ground till they started going outside which helped to wear us down also. If I were a running back recruit and saw this game after game, I wouldn't want to come here.

Hoping the play calling starts getting more imaginitive this is going hold the offense back, Devito doesn't need to be the runner Dungey was but we need to be able have him run a little to help if we are going to continually run straight up the middle and drop straight back with long developing pass plays. Yes we need to block better but we seem to whiff on the one guy or 2 that can make the play.

If he kicks out the end how is that not a potential big run? #64 has the LB and there is no one after him in the middle. The S would did to come over and make an open field tackle.

 

[qdawgg]

We’ve been running up the middle since day 1 of HCDB, it’s not going to change. One of the more frustrating things to watch IMO. Posters have pointed this out and been complaining about this since year 1, there’s almost no diversity in the run game. We can say it’s because of the o-line but that’s lazy, it’s because that’s how this system is run regardless of the state of the o-line.

 

[rmtsu]

Because if you watch the play in real time 19 is coming and is there on the edge when the tackle is made assuming the end doesn't get knocked on his butt but somewhat holds his position there wouldn't have been a lot of room, Neal was not going to be able to angle out quickly with the way he was getting the handoff and heading straight ahead. Sometime the pics tell some of the story but not all, everyone else wasn't just standing around but moving, I hear what you are saying but the way we run straight ahead there wasn't much room or wiggle room to deviate off a straight path. Would have certainly been better if we are able to kick out the end, I don't think it would have been a big run though, but I'd like to not have seen another whiff there at least give the potential to make positive yards instead of a loss.

But this is why some stretch plays or more off tackle plays where the running back has more of a chance to pick a hole or find daylight and bounce outside would be beneficial I believe and put more pressure on the defense.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Because if you watch the play in real time 19 is coming and is there on the edge when the tackle is made assuming the end doesn't get knocked on his butt but somewhat holds his position there wouldn't have been a lot of room, Neal was not going to be able to angle out quickly with the way he was getting the handoff and heading straight ahead. Sometime the pics tell some of the story but not all, everyone else wasn't just standing around but moving, I hear what you are saying but the way we run straight ahead there wasn't much room or wiggle room to deviate off a straight path. Would have certainly been better if we are able to kick out the end, I don't think it would have been a big run though, but I'd like to not have seen another whiff there at least give the potential to make positive yards instead of a loss.

But this is why some stretch plays or more off tackle plays where the running back has more of a chance to pick a hole or find daylight and bounce outside would be beneficial I believe and put more pressure on the defense.

19? The S? He is coming forward which makes it less likely that he gets to the middle. All Mo has to do is keep going forward. No cut or vision needed. Your example shows how we are one block away from a huge gain.

 

[PhatOrange]

I wonder if with the end kicked out Mo might have had the option to go right or left of #64?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I wonder if with the end kicked out Mo might have had the option to go right or left of #64?

Looks like it designed for the right. If #64 seals the LB there is only green ahead.

 

[RandomGuy]

If he kicks out the end how is that not a potential big run? #64 has the LB and there is no one after him in the middle. The S would did to come over and make an open field tackle.

Agreed. Should be a seam on either side of
64, with a potential 1v1 against #19. I mean, I like the design of these plays. 4 and 5 blockers are able to execute. 1 miss can change everything. Such is line play.

 

[rmtsu]

He would have had to have gone left which would have given him a shot at a hole if he hadn't been tackled so quickly, again 19 was coming on the left so we'll never know. Depended on the guy Alexander was blocking. Left of him, 19 was there, right of Alexander depends on the 2 guys that were coming across from the right. We can speculate all we want. This is a common occurrence when we've run up the middle over the last 4 years. Not usually as bad as Saturday against Clemson but we've struggled to break runs in all 3 games except the one late against Liberty. Clemson didn't run well against us either until they started stretching the field with pitches. We stopped a 3rd and short around mid field where I thought they might go for it but punted, holes up the middle tend to close faster than you think. Worse part was that more than a few plays they had 2 guys meeting in the back field for the tackle not just 1 like this example. Like to see DIno try and mask some of our OLine deficiencies, but haven't seen a willingness to do that much yet.

 

[upperdeck]

the play is for running between 64 and 63 since thats where most of our middle running plays end up . Clemson attacked it wrong, but we missed the blocks. if he hits that hole the 2 safeties are chasing the play with those angles and thats what we are trying to do with the pulling blocks. The FB needs to get his angle correct though since the OLB blew past him too easily. we pulled the RG and RT to allow the center to get an angle on the DE and the LG to take out the NT. this way its position blocking and not all size and strength

the issue is Clemson attacks so hard the pulling RG has the wrong angle, he would be fine playing someone who is playing the DE position spot and not attacking. This is more about how Clemson plays than anything else.. more speed than most teams at all spots. if they see that on Film that one block just need to be adjusted to be a step deeper or quicker, but maybe thats all he has for quickness? who knows..

again thats the perfect play for that D just not fully executed..

This is why I think it will get better.. People think we just the same plays up the middle and we dont.. we are running power zone stuff, but this is an example of a pretty well designed misdirection play using the oline to influence the D and it worked but for one blocking angle.

not for nothing but almost getting there against Clemson makes it more likely it works on the lesser DLines.

The running plays I can see progress even in the failures.. I am afraid to look at some of the pass blocking issues.

 

[upperdeck]

most of the issues we are seeing on runs are guards missing pulling plays.

most of the pass issues are with the tackles.. you can see why the coaches are frustrated.

 

[phil77]

most of the issues we are seeing on runs are guards missing pulling plays.

most of the pass issues are with the tackles.. you can see why the coaches are frustrated.

I agree I see problems in different positions depending on the play. Run the inside guys struggle. Pass our outside guys struggle...

I also remember a play where the tackle had two guys coming the end and a blitz guy. His first step was to the outside to pick up the end and the running back correctly saw that and picked up the blitzing guy. Then for some reason the Tackle let the outside guy go and went down to block the inside guy. Letting the outside guy go free... There are communication problems all along the line.

 

[RF2044]

most of the issues we are seeing on runs are guards missing pulling plays.

most of the pass issues are with the tackles.. you can see why the coaches are frustrated.

Very astute.

Fact-based criticism of the OL's run blocking isn't lazy at all, and you nailed it.

Remains to be seen whether some of these issues can be corrected by Heckel's return, because his absence has had a detrimental cascade effect on the entire OL.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed. Should be a seam on either side of
64, with a potential 1v1 against #19. I mean, I like the design of these plays. 4 and 5 blockers are able to execute. 1 miss can change everything. Such is line play.

Agree 100%.

 

[Rocco]

If you posted more of these kind of posts I would not be mad. I like when people who know more then me explain these things and to have a clear screen shot to back it up is awesome. Anymore plays you saw that were missed opportunities etc? Appreciate the break down.

The safeties started to let our receivers get behind them in coverage (like 5-7 yards). There were at least 4-5 plays where we had a guy who would've walked into the end zone if he had been thrown to.

Tommy is the one with the money arm. Eventually we'll start stretching the field.

 

[upperdeck]

its funny to watch because if you really watched large strecthes of the game WRs only we had more guys wide open than Clemson did but they made so many contested catches and we could hold blocks for 3 secs

 

[kcsu]

One lineman being injured should never cause this many problems. The staff needs to look in the mirror and realize that play calling needs to be adjusted to attempt to overcome our weaknesses. Running plays over and over with the same poor results and expecting something different is the definition of...
Either change personnel or change play calling but dont keep practicing insanity as the current combination isnt working nor will it in the future.

 

[upperdeck]

but we aren't running the same plays, this post alone shows completely different plays.. running in the same gaps is not the same thing. as to why we dont run plays that are more outside thats a question for the coaches.

maybe its a function of the mistakes we see here though. outside runs require even better pulling blocks.

What hurts is that we are running plays that should work given the D we are seeing, its not like we have teams stacking the box against us.