Someone should do this video analysis for SU - Inside Pack Sports: 'Inconsistent Officiating vs UNC'

[swish7]

This is an amazing and damning video analysis by James Henderson.

Its from a NC State site, called Inside Pack Sports'. I found it on Mike Watters Twitter feed. Worth a watch.

It is about the officiating in their game vs UNC. The person does an excellent video breakdown.

He covers not only the foul disparity, but the types of fouls called, all with video footage to support his observations. Its done in a matter of fact way, and definitely not just a rant by any means. This kind of stuff should garner a little more attention.

LINK

Sorry if already posted here.

 

[rrlbees]

This is an amazing and damning video analysis by James Henderson.

Its from a NC State site, called Inside Pack Sports'. I found it on Mike Watters Twitter feed. Worth a watch.

It is about the officiating in their game vs UNC. The person does an excellent breakdown.

LINK

Sorry if already posted here.

Ha. Years ago that guy used to post here. Good dude.

 

[swish7]

Ha. Years ago that guy used to post here. Good dude.

That is awesome. He is certainly skilled at what he does and had pretty calm and factual tone about it all.

It would be nice if someone could do such a video for our game against UNC.

 

[NYCCuse826]

The SB Nation site should be doing that since they have the infrastructure and staff to do an article of that nature. As I wrote in my thread the morning after, 38 points in the paint and three foul shots doesn't add up in any language. Attempts at the rim presume that there is some contact down there.

 

[swish7]

The SB Nation site should be doing that since they have the infrastructure and staff to do an article of that nature. As I wrote in my thread the morning after, 38 points in the paint and three foul shots doesn't add up in any language. Attempts at the rim presume that there is some contact down there.

That would be amazing if they did. I imagine putting that article and video together was quite a bit of work.

Your post about this was spot on.

I thought this Henderson guys comments about the kinds of fouls 'makeups, non-shooting', etc was pretty insightful as well.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good stuff. I honestly don't get why criticism of officiating is deemed so taboo for anyone except for the NCAA or conference leadership.

I realize it's not the easiest life traveling so often but these guys are still collecting a nice paycheck. Accountability around officiating is extremely ambiguous. Look no further than seeing some of these guys in the tournament who just do a poor job.

Then schools or coaches have an issue and its a no no with penalties for saying something. Again these guys aren't volunteering they are paid. Technology continues to expand and yet it hasn't improved things its simply shined a light on deficiencies and shown how inconsistent even video review is handled at times. It's almost as though they are getting to the point where video review should replace most of their job at this point...but not because of the tech, instead because of the poor job they are doing.

More transparency on managing their performance is desperately needed at this point. Would be a great purpose for the NCAA to focus on fair play in this manner.

 

[MSOrange]

Good stuff. I honestly don't get why criticism of officiating is deemed so taboo for anyone except for the NCAA or conference leadership.

I realize it's not the easiest life traveling so often but these guys are still collecting a nice paycheck. Accountability around officiating is extremely ambiguous. Look no further than seeing some of these guys in the tournament who just do a poor job.

Then schools or coaches have an issue and its a no no with penalties for saying something. Again these guys aren't volunteering they are paid. Technology continues to expand and yet it hasn't improved things its simply shined a light on deficiencies and shown how inconsistent even video review is handled at times. It's almost as though they are getting to the point where video review should replace most of their job at this point...but not because of the tech, instead because of the poor job they are doing.

More transparency on managing their performance is desperately needed at this point. Would be a great purpose for the NCAA to focus on fair play in this manner.

I would agree with that. Like all things, there is probably a line coaches shouldn't cross. But just pointing out calls you think were missed shouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[Sbucketball]

Good stuff. I honestly don't get why criticism of officiating is deemed so taboo for anyone except for the NCAA or conference leadership.

I realize it's not the easiest life traveling so often but these guys are still collecting a nice paycheck. Accountability around officiating is extremely ambiguous. Look no further than seeing some of these guys in the tournament who just do a poor job.

Then schools or coaches have an issue and its a no no with penalties for saying something. Again these guys aren't volunteering they are paid. Technology continues to expand and yet it hasn't improved things its simply shined a light on deficiencies and shown how inconsistent even video review is handled at times. It's almost as though they are getting to the point where video review should replace most of their job at this point...but not because of the tech, instead because of the poor job they are doing.

More transparency on managing their performance is desperately needed at this point. Would be a great purpose for the NCAA to focus on fair play in this manner.

Exactly. They're getting paid. It's their job. If any of the rest of us do our job poorly, we have to deal with consequences. It should be free rein on officials.

 

[PhatOrange]

That's pretty much how I saw our game called

 

[Millhouse]

This is an amazing and damning video analysis by James Henderson.

Its from a NC State site, called Inside Pack Sports'. I found it on Mike Watters Twitter feed. Worth a watch.

It is about the officiating in their game vs UNC. The person does an excellent video breakdown.

He covers not only the foul disparity, but the types of fouls called, all with video footage to support his observations. Its done in a matter of fact way, and definitely not just a rant by any means. This kind of stuff should garner a little more attention.

LINK

Sorry if already posted here.

I judge the ACC on what is easy for me to see. And the thing that jumps out to me are constant advertisements for hillbilly restaurants that no one has ever seen before in one of the markets.

These kinds of videos are great to make it easy for the rest of us

It just makes me think that the league is lazy and so fat with cash that they just don't have to care and can make whatever deal with the gomers they know. Probably applies to the referees too

 

[Millhouse]

Screencast-o-matic is a very easy way for someone to playback games on the PC, point things out and narrate (for whoever is interested)

 

[tbonezone]

I judge the ACC on what is easy for me to see. And the thing that jumps out to me are constant advertisements for hillbilly restaurants that no one has ever seen before one of the markets. These kinds of videos are great to make it easy for the rest of us

i myself love the POSSUM HUT chains. just like the jingle say "Crave the Critter in Ya "

 

[Cuseball]

This is an amazing and damning video analysis by James Henderson.

Its from a NC State site, called Inside Pack Sports'. I found it on Mike Watters Twitter feed. Worth a watch.

It is about the officiating in their game vs UNC. The person does an excellent video breakdown.

He covers not only the foul disparity, but the types of fouls called, all with video footage to support his observations. Its done in a matter of fact way, and definitely not just a rant by any means. This kind of stuff should garner a little more attention.

LINK

Sorry if already posted here.

Wow that was really insightful and damning about the unbalanced calls in UNC's favor. Really remarkable inconsistency. I also noticed that Bacot is a whiny dude who gets away with a lot and Davis flops and acts quite a bit.

 

[81South]

Good stuff. I honestly don't get why criticism of officiating is deemed so taboo for anyone except for the NCAA or conference leadership.

I realize it's not the easiest life traveling so often but these guys are still collecting a nice paycheck. Accountability around officiating is extremely ambiguous. Look no further than seeing some of these guys in the tournament who just do a poor job.

Then schools or coaches have an issue and its a no no with penalties for saying something. Again these guys aren't volunteering they are paid. Technology continues to expand and yet it hasn't improved things its simply shined a light on deficiencies and shown how inconsistent even video review is handled at times. It's almost as though they are getting to the point where video review should replace most of their job at this point...but not because of the tech, instead because of the poor job they are doing.

More transparency on managing their performance is desperately needed at this point. Would be a great purpose for the NCAA to focus on fair play in this manner.

People don’t want to officiate. Numbers are down. Imagine doing your job and getting yelled at by players, coaches and fans. It takes an emotional toll on you.

 

[Cusefan0307]

People don’t want to officiate. Numbers are down. Imagine doing your job and getting yelled at by players, coaches and fans. It takes an emotional toll on you.

I tried to become an official last year in New York State just because I love basketball and I didn’t even get a call or email back. It doesn’t seem like they are trying hard enough if they need more officials.

 

[Orangezoo]

People don’t want to officiate. Numbers are down. Imagine doing your job and getting yelled at by players, coaches and fans. It takes an emotional toll on you.

I hear that- in fairness there are many jobs you take a lot of flak in and from different sources and perspectives. That said - that shouldn't be an excuse for a lack of clear accountability. High pressure/stress jobs are not uncommon. In my own I've seen death threats because of who I work for, deal with activists and ridiculous out of line executives too. All of that doesn't remove the accountability I have in my job that is not ambiguous.

 

[81South]

I hear that- in fairness there are many jobs you take a lot of flak in and from different sources and perspectives. That said - that shouldn't be an excuse for a lack of clear accountability. High pressure/stress jobs are not uncommon. In my own I've seen death threats because of who I work for, deal with activists and ridiculous out of line executives too. All of that doesn't remove the accountability I have in my job that is not ambiguous.

I agree completely with accountability. But accountable to who? They have bosses who assign them….if they crap the bed in a game the assigner will get calls for days. Sometimes I think fans want the official to answer for a call in a press conference and that would get you no where unless you like hearing boiler plate responses.

 

[Scooch]

The quality of officiating in college hoops is abysmal and has been for a long time.

I'd love it if a former official could watch a video like this along with the creator and note where he's right, and where he's wrong.

For example, he points out the similar bumps around the 3 minute mark -- one is called a foul on NC State, the other not on UNC. Now, I don't know enough about the rules, or how officials are instructed to call a foul in those circumstances. But it does seem that the NC State guy extends his arm a tiny bit more than the UNC guy on those similar bumps.

Is that enough for a call to be made? I honestly have no clue, but it'd be fascinating to hear from someone who is trained to note those subtle differences.

Bigger picture, I think some of the problem is that there are just too many foul types in basketball. I'm adamant about that in football as well. Seems to me that if you cut the rulebook in half and called only the most egregious stuff, then refs would have far less impact on the game. Of course there's a potential consequence that the game would get too physical and be really unenjoyable to watch.

But I find the ticky-tack stuff to really kill the flow, so maybe more contact would be a reasonable tradeoff?

 

[Orangezoo]

The quality of officiating in college hoops is abysmal and has been for a long time.

I'd love it if a former official could watch a video like this along with the creator and note where he's right, and where he's wrong.

For example, he points out the similar bumps around the 3 minute mark -- one is called a foul on NC State, the other not on UNC. Now, I don't know enough about the rules, or how officials are instructed to call a foul in those circumstances. But it does seem that the NC State guy extends his arm a tiny bit more than the UNC guy on those similar bumps.

Is that enough for a call to be made? I honestly have no clue, but it'd be fascinating to hear from someone who is trained to note those subtle differences.

Bigger picture, I think some of the problem is that there are just too many foul types in basketball. I'm adamant about that in football as well. Seems to me that if you cut the rulebook in half and called only the most egregious stuff, then refs would have far less impact on the game. Of course there's a potential consequence that the game would get too physical and be really unenjoyable to watch.

But I find the ticky-tack stuff to really kill the flow, so maybe more contact would be a reasonable tradeoff?

Good points. I think a deeper look at the rules makes sense. One I had always pondered was that after reaching the penalty, the fouled team has a choice of free throws or side out and making the penalty two shots like it is in the NBA. The exception being on an and-1 where there is always just a FT.

While it's always a dynamic of the game the 1 and 1 to me is out dated and a cheap way to use committing fouls to your advantage.

Take that with a simplified rule book. Additionally, then move back to 6 fouls for DQ instead of 5.

I'm sure other ideas are out there too but any way to make officiating still important to applying the rules of the game but not such that it can dictate the outcome of the game would be ideal.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

But I find the ticky-tack stuff to really kill the flow, so maybe more contact would be a reasonable tradeoff?

The ones that should be eliminated are the ones that don't impact the play or game. Since some refs allow a little more clutching and grabbing, maybe all should. Only call the ones that directly impact the play.

 

[Jake]

Ha. Years ago that guy used to post here. Good dude.

Yep. I used to IM him on AOL during the Hodge recruitment. He was the one who assured me Hodge was “done to state”. He was not in denial about the rea$on…

 

[swish7]

Good points. I think a deeper look at the rules makes sense. One I had always pondered was that after reaching the penalty, the fouled team has a choice of free throws or side out and making the penalty two shots like it is in the NBA. The exception being on an and-1 where there is always just a FT.

While it's always a dynamic of the game the 1 and 1 to me is out dated and a cheap way to use committing fouls to your advantage.

Take that with a simplified rule book. Additionally, then move back to 6 fouls for DQ instead of 5.

I'm sure other ideas are out there too but any way to make officiating still important to applying the rules of the game but not such that it can dictate the outcome of the game would be ideal.

The thoughts in this sub-thread are the sort of accountability I would like to see.

Any calls submitted to the officiating office by schools should be explained along with the video footage, just like this guy from NC state did, but also stating the rule.

• School submits a contested call, with video footage, and the applicable rule, and why they think the call was wrong
• An official, if not the official responds in kind
• And have this moderated by a 'special master' or whatever to the official. Someone who can call BS on the official's explanation, and also to the school's complaints.
• Collect data.
• Assign poorly performing officials to lesser games and divisions
• Assign better performing officials to the more prominent games
• If schools abuse the system, then perhaps restrict their ability to submit future complaints

This era where a coach cannot even complain in a presser without being fined or whatever, and the official hops in his Datsun and drives off to the next town/next show is just ridiculous.

And, I 100% agree with cutting the rule book in half.

• Diminish the subjective stuff, either by eliminating or reducing the consequences
• Enhance the objective stuff
• Simplify the rules
• Enforce the simplified rules

It irks me to no end when a ticky tack is called where the defender not only did not commit a foul, but no advantage was gained either way.

 

[RMH44]

The thoughts in this sub-thread are the sort of accountability I would like to see.

Any calls submitted to the officiating office by schools should be explained along with the video footage, just like this guy from NC state did, but also stating the rule.

• School submits a contested call, with video footage, and the applicable rule, and why they think the call was wrong
• An official, if not the official responds in kind
• And have this moderated by a 'special master' or whatever to the official. Someone who can call BS on the official's explanation, and also to the school's complaints.
• Collect data.
• Assign poorly performing officials to lesser games and divisions
• Assign better performing officials to the more prominent games
• If schools abuse the system, then perhaps restrict their ability to submit future complaints

This era where a coach cannot even complain in a presser without being fined or whatever, and the official hops in his Datsun and drives off to the next town/next show is just ridiculous.

And, I 100% agree with cutting the rule book in half.

• Diminish the subjective stuff, either by eliminating or reducing the consequences
• Enhance the objective stuff
• Simplify the rules
• Enforce the simplified rules

It irks me to no end when a ticky tack is called where the defender not only did not commit a foul, but no advantage was gained either way.

When I played that was the definition of a foul. Maybe, it has changed?

 

[swish7]

When I played that was the definition of a foul. Maybe, it has changed?

Could be wrong, but I recall that back in my day 'gaining or not gaining an advantage' was a factor in some calls. But, really just need to read the rule book I guess. I have no idea anymore.