special teams play

[SUbear]

Okay, I like Doug, but if this game is representative of his coaching specials, we are in trouble.

Punt coverage was, to be blunt, horrible. On kick returns I never saw any evidence of a blocking scheme, or wall.

 

[OttoMets]

What effect did coaching have on the punt coverage you saw?

 

[samspann1]

What effect did coaching have on the punt coverage you saw?

the coverage team looked awfully slow to me. After the PR TD, maybe the strategy should have been to punt higher or towards the sidelines?

 

[tbonezone]

coverage teams looked to me to be incredibly slow and unfocused.

 

[OttoMets]

the coverage team looked awfully slow to me. After the PR TD, maybe the strategy should have been to punt higher or towards the sidelines?

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

But I think a lot of the complaining about coaching isn't thought through very carefully. It's mostly knee-jerk whining by some of the more negative posters who are looking for someone to blame. Watching the two offending punt returns several times, the long returns can be pinned on two things (in this order): 1.) poor execution by Syracuse players who didn't stay in their lanes, and 2.) Mark's impressive running ability.

One can't blame Marrone for Reddish leaving his lane any more than one can blame Shafer for Davis not wrapping on a tackle or Hackett for Sales dropping an easy ball. It might be fun to rant about special teams coaching - and, as you point out, there are certainly things that can be improved upon - but a lot of the glaring problems simply involved Syracuse players making mistakes on the field.

 

[samspann1]

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

But I think a lot of the complaining about coaching isn't thought through very carefully. It's mostly knee-jerk whining by some of the more negative posters who are looking for someone to blame. Watching the two offending punt returns several times, the long returns can be pinned on two things (in this order): 1.) poor execution by Syracuse players who didn't stay in their lanes, and 2.) Mark's impressive running ability.

One can't blame Marrone for Reddish leaving his lane any more than one can blame Shafer for Davis not wrapping on a tackle or Hackett for Sales dropping an easy ball. It might be fun to rant about special teams coaching - and, as you point out, there are certainly things that can be improved upon - but a lot of the glaring problems simply involved Syracuse players making mistakes on the field.

The missed tackles have been a recurring theme, regardless of the players.

Regarding guys not staying in their lanes - that's an example of undisciplined play.

 

[CuseCrew08]

does anyone know how far the punts were?? when the NW guy caught the first one that he scored on, I said that it looked like he out kicked the coverage.

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[dollarbill44]

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

But I think a lot of the complaining about coaching isn't thought through very carefully. It's mostly knee-jerk whining by some of the more negative posters who are looking for someone to blame. Watching the two offending punt returns several times, the long returns can be pinned on two things (in this order): 1.) poor execution by Syracuse players who didn't stay in their lanes, and 2.) Mark's impressive running ability.

One can't blame Marrone for Reddish leaving his lane any more than one can blame Shafer for Davis not wrapping on a tackle or Hackett for Sales dropping an easy ball. It might be fun to rant about special teams coaching - and, as you point out, there are certainly things that can be improved upon - but a lot of the glaring problems simply involved Syracuse players making mistakes on the field.

To be frank, the mistakes on punt coverage should have been drilled into them by now. One punt - maybe. Two punts in a row? That's got to fall on the coaching staff to a large extent. The second wave of defenders on the punt coverage was WAY too slow. There's no excuse for that, imo, given the amount of athletes we now have on this team. It was pretty apparent that once Mark beat the over-pursuit of the gunners, that he was going to go for a long way.

STs is still a glaring weakness and I'm tired of it costing us football games.

 

[SUbear]

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

But I think a lot of the complaining about coaching isn't thought through very carefully. It's mostly knee-jerk whining by some of the more negative posters who are looking for someone to blame. Watching the two offending punt returns several times, the long returns can be pinned on two things (in this order): 1.) poor execution by Syracuse players who didn't stay in their lanes, and 2.) Mark's impressive running ability.

One can't blame Marrone for Reddish leaving his lane any more than one can blame Shafer for Davis not wrapping on a tackle or Hackett for Sales dropping an easy ball. It might be fun to rant about special teams coaching - and, as you point out, there are certainly things that can be improved upon - but a lot of the glaring problems simply involved Syracuse players making mistakes on the field.

Mark is not any better than most D1 returners.
Our second wave of defenders were slow and in poor position, all bunched up, one good cut and most D1 punt returners will burn that defense.
Coaching includes personnel selection and enforcing that players do as instructed. You can't just say the players made mistakes, and remove all responsibility from the coach.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

But I think a lot of the complaining about coaching isn't thought through very carefully. It's mostly knee-jerk whining by some of the more negative posters who are looking for someone to blame. Watching the two offending punt returns several times, the long returns can be pinned on two things (in this order): 1.) poor execution by Syracuse players who didn't stay in their lanes, and 2.) Mark's impressive running ability.

One can't blame Marrone for Reddish leaving his lane any more than one can blame Shafer for Davis not wrapping on a tackle or Hackett for Sales dropping an easy ball. It might be fun to rant about special teams coaching - and, as you point out, there are certainly things that can be improved upon - but a lot of the glaring problems simply involved Syracuse players making mistakes on the field.

Phillips and Chibane cannot be on the Punt team, this unit is going to get torched all year if changes aren't made. Were in year 4 here and the Punt coverage team has stunk every year I dont think were asking a lot.

 

[kingtidge]

What effect did coaching have on the punt coverage you saw?

Evidently no effect whatsoever.

It would be one thing if, say... we were solid/serviceable for most of last year at special teams and this year in game one we were just kicking the rust off and were suffering new player rotation snafus learning on the job (there inevitably is some of that.)

But the kick and punt coverage units were abysmal... again... a reoccurring theme for a year now... I agree the unit coverage was slow. I don't think we're inherently slow - but we had players that appeared to not run at top speed and seemed unsure where they needed to be on a number of kicks.

I applaud Doug and his staff and the players for the expansion and effectiveness of the offense, but if ST is so bad it essentially negates the offensive improvements, we will see more losses.

First game, so grain of salt of course... but one thing for sure - Doug owns ST, so he damn well sure better get them serviceable...

 

[JeremyCuse]

Evidently no effect whatsoever.

It would be one thing if, say... we were solid/serviceable for most of last year at special teams and this year in game one we were just kicking the rust off and were suffering new player rotation snafus learning on the job (there inevitably is some of that.)

But the kick and punt coverage units were abysmal... again... a reoccurring theme for a year now...

I applaud Doug and his staff and the players for the expansion and effectiveness of the offense, but if ST is so bad it essentially negates the offensive improvements, we will see more losses.

First game, so grain of salt of course... but one thing for sure - Doug owns ST, so he damn well sure better get them serviceable...

The punt return team has been bad since day one, go watch that Lville game from 09 its ugly. I understand we have been somewhat undermanned but the personnel decisions on that unit make no sense. The kickoff team seems to have a lot of starters and speed but the punt cover team looks slow and has 2 O lineman as protectors, thats a disaster waiting to happen and it burned us twice Saturday. I shudder to think what UConns PR guy is gonna do.

 

[OttoMets]

Phillips and Chibane cannot be on the Punt team, this unit is going to get torched all year if changes aren't made. Were in year 4 here and the Punt coverage team has stunk every year I dont think were asking a lot.

I can't pretend to be an expert on these things. but they don't look like they belong. Against any half-decent returner, we'll be playing 9-on-11 or 8-on-11. The big guys are just too slow. Again, no expert here, but don't we have three linebackers who can block just as well in this scheme but actually move up the field?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I can't pretend to be an expert on these things. but they don't look like they belong. Against any half-decent returner, we'll be playing 9-on-11 or 8-on-11. The big guys are just too slow. Again, no expert here, but don't we have three linebackers who can block just as well in this scheme but actually move up the field?

I understand the thoughts behind it and it does appear there trying to make some changes but you cant have 2 extra lineman in the punt return team in Div 1 football its simply not going to work unless you have 2 absolute all star gunners who make every play, which trust me we dont. If you want guys with some bulk then put Coker, Max B, Cutler, or Vigille back there. At least with those guys they have some speed and can get down to cover the kicks. You can't ask Chibane to be chasing down a guy who runs a 4.5 40.

 

[OttoMets]

I understand the thoughts behind it and it does appear there trying to make some changes but you cant have 2 extra lineman in the punt return team in Div 1 football its simply not going to work unless you have 2 absolute all star gunners who make every play, which trust me we dont. If you want guys with some bulk then put Coker, Max B, Cutler, or Vigille back there. At least with those guys they have some speed and can get down to cover the kicks. You can't ask Chibane to be chasing down a guy who runs a 4.5 40.

Coker's the first guy I thought of.

I don't want to overstate this, but my first thought on watching the replay on Sunday morning was "Who is #62 and why do he and at least two of his teammates not look like Division I special teamers?" That just flat-out didn't work.

If Reddish had kept his lane and made the tackle both times, we wouldn't be harping on this. But the gunners have to have some help; everyone out there (aside from the punter, maybe) needs to be an asset in terms of running guys down and making tackles. That probably can't happen with offensive linemen in the mix.

 

[Rocco]

When I saw Chibane back in the wedge, I almost puked. That's what backups and walk-ons are for.

Only 2 bad things can come from that: 1.) The return man breaks free and blazes past Chibane on his way to the end zone (happened on Sat); 2.) He gets injured while wedging for the punting unit and we lose him on the OL.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Coker's the first guy I thought of.

I don't want to overstate this, but my first thought on watching the replay on Sunday morning was "Who is #62 and why do he and at least two of his teammates not look like Division I special teamers?" That just flat-out didn't work.

If Reddish had kept his lane and made the tackle both times, we wouldn't be harping on this. But the gunners have to have some help; everyone out there (aside from the punter, maybe) needs to be an asset in terms of running guys down and making tackles. That probably can't happen with offensive linemen in the mix.

Agreed, also as you noted even if Reddish made those two plays it was just delaying the inevitable as he obviously isnt going to make every play and the returns would have hurt us this week versus USC or sometime down the road.

The key is if the coaching staff and Marrone realize this current group of players is not a D1 punt team and makes changes. I would like to think that if its obvious to the fanbase on a message board then it should be crystal clear to the staff but I have the sinking feeling the first punt on Saturday will have a lot of us shaking our heads.

 

[SoBristol]

3 guys to put in that protection trio -- Broyld, MPB, Simmons. Big enough to block, have some experience making tackles (Broyld on occasion in HS), can move. Gives us an option if Broyld is one of those 3.

But you have to look at all elements -- hang time, kicking to a sideline, personnel as the gunners.

 

[JeremyCuse]

3 guys to put in that protection trio -- Broyld, MPB, Simmons. Big enough to block, have some experience making tackles (Broyld on occasion in HS), can move. Gives us an option if Broyld is one of those 3.

But you have to look at all elements -- hang time, kicking to a sideline, personnel as the gunners.

MPB cannot be on that unit, while I certainly would love to have someone with his skill set on that unit you cannot risk injury to your only big time pass rusher on the roster. You wont forgive yourself if he blows out his knee chasing some return man from Stony Brook.

 

[dollarbill44]

When GRob was the coach, I feared that every punt would be blocked. Now I fear that every punt will be returned for 6. At least under GRob I could take solace in the chance of a safety rather than a TD.

 

[Oakland]

Maybe. Or maybe get Phillips and Chibane out of there.

I can't pretend to be an expert on these things. but they don't look like they belong. Against any half-decent returner, we'll be playing 9-on-11 or 8-on-11. The big guys are just too slow. Again, no expert here, but don't we have three linebackers who can block just as well in this scheme but actually move up the field?

Didn't NW have heavies on their kicking teams?

 

[SoBristol]

MPB cannot be on that unit, while I certainly would love to have someone with his skill set on that unit you cannot risk injury to your only big time pass rusher on the roster. You wont forgive yourself if he blows out his knee chasing some return man from Stony Brook.

OK --- not MPB; but I wouldn't put an OL guy on that team and. You might consider Wales or Stevens or Beaulieu.
If you have Broyld with one of those guys, you can give the opposing team something to think about before they peal back as return blockers.

 

[rrlbees]

IMO, you use LB's and TE's there.

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[OttoMets]

Didn't notice; Northwestern did use the same formation we did. They had one enormous guy (#1), not sure what position he plays. He did look more mobile than our linemen.

 

[baggerbob]

You put athletes out there on the punt return team, AB, hunt who has used his redshirt might as well get some action on special teams.