Starts

[SWC75]

It was a suggested in a post below that our type of offense isn't effective until the seocnd half because we tend to wear down the opposition and people shouldn't expect us to do much early in the game. I decided to look at the quarterly scoring breakdowns of the teams that have averaged 500 yards per game so far this season to see if there was an offensive "crescendo" or if those teams tended to dominate from the beginning of the game. In an earlier post I said there were 19 such teams, (those were ESPN's nubmers on Sunday). I checked the NCAA stats today and there are actually 25, (21% of all major college teams: there was no major college team that averaged 500 yards per game for a season until 1968). Here is their total scoring by quarters. "Losing" quarters are in italics

Oklahoma State 66-10 / 41-13 / 52-24 / 28-36
UCLA 40-24 / 36-24 / 16-3 / 30-9
West Virginia 34-0 / 28-13 / 28-12 / 21-21
Arizona 20-12 / 41-14 / 35-17 / 43-7 / 7-0 (ot)
Louisiana Tech 35-6 / 21-31 / 28-13 / 28-36
Texas Tech 42-0 / 62-27 / 27-0 / 20-3
Oregon 64-10 / 56-13 / 21-27/ 21-23
(The Ducks were mentioned as a team that gets off to slow starts and wears a team down as the game goes along. The opposite is true: they jump on teams and get to play reserves throughout the second half, which we don't get to do and which makes it harder to develop depth and future starters.)
Baylor 17-3, 17-20, 35-7, 38-17
Nevada 42-9, 10-24, 28-24, 27-33
Marshall 17-13, 31-41, 38-28, 24-38
Oklahoma 21-7 / 21-14 / 24-3 / 27-0
Florida State 63-0 / 51-3 / 34-0 / 28-0
Indiana 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Troy 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Syracuse 13-17 / 16-28 / 34-21 / 41-28
Nebraska 42-14 / 38-30 / 17-13 / 24-12
Georgia Tech 42-14 / 24-0 / 28-0 / 38-26 / 0-3 (ot)
Tulsa 58-16 / 35-20 / 10-7 / 31-21
Air Force 10-7 / 28-7 / 21-28 / 15-10
Georgia 28-13 / 33-27 / 43-10 / 42-13
Clemson 23-14 / 55-13 / 17-16 / 24-10
Fresno State 63-3 / 51-13 / 7-17 / 27-16
(Did you see the box on their game with Colorado? They won 69-14. They were ahead 55-7 at the half and had already gained 516 yards. What the heck has happened to the Buffs? They are 0-3 and also lost to Sacramento State, an FCS team.)
Texas 24-9 / 48-10 / 42-14 / 34-15
Texas Christian 35-3, 17-3, 24-0, 0-0
(That's right, they have 35 points in the 1st quarter and none in the 4th.)
Mississippi 21-17 / 24-34 / 28-31 / 35-21

Overall: 882-274 / 841-461 / 665-356 / 698-424
Average: 13-4 / 12-7 / 10-5 / 10-6 Total: 45-22

These teams have played 69 games and are 54-15, (several have played each other). They have led at halftime 49 times and been even 4 others. Of the 16 tiems they have been behind at halftime, we account for three of them, as well as two of the losses.

Most of these schools run somehting akin to our no-huddle. I don't think the notion that slow starts have to be tolerated in this type of offense is bourne out by their results so far.

 

[SoBristol]

Good work.
The point about wearing down the opposition would make more sense if we were a run-oriented offense, our line took over games in the second half, and we rolled.
Like rivals have done to us in the recent past.
But we aren't a team that can just line up and beat teams with superior personnel, doing what we want to do.

So how do you explain our pattern? Nassib takes some time to get his best stuff flowing? Our coaches take some time to dope out what the other team is doing on gameday versus our tendencies? Our coaches want to keep fans around for the second half?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Unless I missed something we are the ONLY one of those 25 teams that is being outscored by our opponents in BOTH quarters of the first half. There's really no excuse for that.

 

[Millhouse]

It was a suggested in a post below that our type of offense isn't effective until the seocnd half because we tend to wear down the opposition and people shouldn't expect us to do much early in the game. I decided to look at the quarterly scoring breakdowns of the teams that have averaged 500 yards per game so far this season to see if there was an offensive "crescendo" or if those teams tended to dominate from the beginning of the game. In an earlier post I said there were 19 such teams, (those were ESPN's nubmers on Sunday). I checked the NCAA stats today and there are actually 25, (21% of all major college teams: there was no major college team that averaged 500 yards per game for a season until 1968). Here is their total scoring by quarters. "Losing" quarters are in italics

Oklahoma State 66-10 / 41-13 / 52-24 / 28-36
UCLA 40-24 / 36-24 / 16-3 / 30-9
West Virginia 34-0 / 28-13 / 28-12 / 21-21
Arizona 20-12 / 41-14 / 35-17 / 43-7 / 7-0 (ot)
Louisiana Tech 35-6 / 21-31 / 28-13 / 28-36
Texas Tech 42-0 / 62-27 / 27-0 / 20-3
Oregon 64-10 / 56-13 / 21-27/ 21-23
(The Ducks were mentioned as a team that gets off to slow starts and wears a team down as the game goes along. The opposite is true: they jump on teams and get to play reserves throughout the second half, which we don't get to do and which makes it harder to develop depth and future starters.)
Baylor 17-3, 17-20, 35-7, 38-17
Nevada 42-9, 10-24, 28-24, 27-33
Marshall 17-13, 31-41, 38-28, 24-38
Oklahoma 21-7 / 21-14 / 24-3 / 27-0
Florida State 63-0 / 51-3 / 34-0 / 28-0
Indiana 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Troy 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Syracuse 13-17 / 16-28 / 34-21 / 41-28
Nebraska 42-14 / 38-30 / 17-13 / 24-12
Georgia Tech 42-14 / 24-0 / 28-0 / 38-26 / 0-3 (ot)
Tulsa 58-16 / 35-20 / 10-7 / 31-21
Air Force 10-7 / 28-7 / 21-28 / 15-10
Georgia 28-13 / 33-27 / 43-10 / 42-13
Clemson 23-14 / 55-13 / 17-16 / 24-10
Fresno State 63-3 / 51-13 / 7-17 / 27-16
(Did you see the box on their game with Colorado? They won 69-14. They were ahead 55-7 at the half and had already gained 516 yards. What the heck has happened to the Buffs? They are 0-3 and also lost to Sacramento State, an FCS team.)
Texas 24-9 / 48-10 / 42-14 / 34-15
Texas Christian 35-3, 17-3, 24-0, 0-0
(That's right, they have 35 points in the 1st quarter and none in the 4th.)
Mississippi 21-17 / 24-34 / 28-31 / 35-21

Overall: 882-274 / 841-461 / 665-356 / 698-424
Average: 13-4 / 12-7 / 10-5 / 10-6 Total: 45-22

These teams have played 69 games and are 54-15, (several have played each other). They have led at halftime 49 times and been even 4 others. Of the 16 tiems they have been behind at halftime, we account for three of them, as well as two of the losses.

Most of these schools run somehting akin to our no-huddle. I don't think the notion that slow starts have to be tolerated in this type of offense is bourne out by their results so far.

Common sense interjection. You are looking at lots games vs cupcakes inearly September. Pretty silly.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[SWC75]

Common sense interjection. You are looking at lots games vs cupcakes inearly September. Pretty silly.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

500 yards is 500 yards. It's supposed to convert into points. 500 yards should produce the same scoring vs. USC it would vs. Stony Brook.

 

[SWC75]

Good work.
The point about wearing down the opposition would make more sense if we were a run-oriented offense, our line took over games in the second half, and we rolled.
Like rivals have done to us in the recent past.
But we aren't a team that can just line up and beat teams with superior personnel, doing what we want to do.

So how do you explain our pattern? Nassib takes some time to get his best stuff flowing? Our coaches take some time to dope out what the other team is doing on gameday versus our tendencies? Our coaches want to keep fans around for the second half?

I think they start out trying to establish the run to set up the pass. We can make some gians but we aren't consistent enough at it. Also Nassib operates best when he can get into a rhythm, which he can't do when he only passes on third down. We fall behind and have to go primarily to the pass and we start moving up and down the field. I'd like to come out firing and use the pass to set up the run. Just pretend we are already behind to start the game and do what we do when we're behind. And use some of our tall recievers in the red zone, rather than trying to shove them out of the way.

 

[SoBristol]

I think they start out trying to establish the run to set up the pass. We can make some gians but we aren't consistent enough at it. Also Nassib operates best when he can get into a rhythm, which he can't do when he only passes on third down. We fall behind and have to go primarily to the pass and we start moving up and down the field. I'd like to come out firing and use the pass to set up the run. Just pretend we are already behind to start the game and do what we do when we're behind. And use some of our tall recievers in the red zone, rather than trying to shove them out of the way.

Good point about getting Nassib into a rhythm earlier in the game. I suspect they also want to get Smith, Gulley & Broyld into a rhythm and not let the opponent's DL tee off. But we know the staff is working on this and may change it up.
In the red zone, it is hard to fault the staff for trying to run it in versus SB. After all, it was SB, but SB's DE beat Wales/Alexander to stuff that run. We need some variety and finesse in those goal line situations -- we don't have mashers on the OL. Could use Gulley or Broyld as a threat to go outside; or roll and look for a taller receiver (Fleming?).

 

[SmilinBob]

I think they start out trying to establish the run to set up the pass. We can make some gians but we aren't consistent enough at it. Also Nassib operates best when he can get into a rhythm, which he can't do when he only passes on third down. We fall behind and have to go primarily to the pass and we start moving up and down the field. I'd like to come out firing and use the pass to set up the run. Just pretend we are already behind to start the game and do what we do when we're behind. And use some of our tall recievers in the red zone, rather than trying to shove them out of the way.

That is my thinking as well. Lots of runs and short passes to warm up Nassib and that I'd venture a guess get his confidence up and into a groove. I wonder what the percentage of 20+ yard passes they throw in the first 2 or 3 possessions are? It may just my opinion but it seems teams press cover/load the box and try to make SU go long early and once they finally do, it opens things up.

 

[Millhouse]

500 yards is 500 yards. It's supposed to convert into points. 500 yards should produce the same scoring vs. USC it would vs. Stony Brook.

Huh?

Your evidence that oregon starts fast is based on what they did against Fresno St and Arkansas State. Good teams blow the doors off bad teams and then play backups.

 

[SWC75]

Huh?

Your evidence that oregon starts fast is based on what they did against Fresno St and Arkansas State. Good teams blow the doors off bad teams and then play backups.

If you gain 500 yards agaisnt anybody, you should:

1) Score at least 40 points
2) Win
3) Win easily
4) Win early, so you can play reserves at the end of the game.

It doesn't matter who you played if you gained 500 yards on them, unless they did the same to you, (which would prevent the last two but would not prevent you from at least scoring early). And we didn't "blow the doors off" an FCS team.

 

[Millhouse]

If you gain 500 yards agaisnt anybody, you should:

1) Score at least 40 points
2) Win
3) Win easily
4) Win early, so you can play reserves at the end of the game.

It doesn't matter who you played if you gained 500 yards on them, unless they did the same to you, (which would prevent the last two but would not prevent you from at least scoring early). And we didn't "blow the doors off" an FCS team.

what does any of that have to do with oregon's no huddle wearing teams down?

 

[SWC75]

what does any of that have to do with oregon's no huddle wearing teams down?

They don't just wear teams down. They are ready to score from the beginning of the game and they do it. 500 yards vs. USC or 500 yards vs. Stony Brook should have the same impact on the game.

 

[SmilinBob]

Oregon has cheerleaders that can run a 4.3 40.

 

[Millhouse]

They don't just wear teams down. They are ready to score from the beginning of the game and they do it. 500 yards vs. USC or 500 yards vs. Stony Brook should have the same impact on the game.

I'm not talking about USC and stony brook.

I'm talking about Oregon.

Looking at what they did against Arkansas state doesn't tell you much.

And i never said they "just" wear teams down. Straw man

two thumbs down.

 

[retro44]

actually i think millhouse was right

 

[suloyalfan]

It was a suggested in a post below that our type of offense isn't effective until the seocnd half because we tend to wear down the opposition and people shouldn't expect us to do much early in the game. I decided to look at the quarterly scoring breakdowns of the teams that have averaged 500 yards per game so far this season to see if there was an offensive "crescendo" or if those teams tended to dominate from the beginning of the game. In an earlier post I said there were 19 such teams, (those were ESPN's nubmers on Sunday). I checked the NCAA stats today and there are actually 25, (21% of all major college teams: there was no major college team that averaged 500 yards per game for a season until 1968). Here is their total scoring by quarters. "Losing" quarters are in italics

Oklahoma State 66-10 / 41-13 / 52-24 / 28-36
UCLA 40-24 / 36-24 / 16-3 / 30-9
West Virginia 34-0 / 28-13 / 28-12 / 21-21
Arizona 20-12 / 41-14 / 35-17 / 43-7 / 7-0 (ot)
Louisiana Tech 35-6 / 21-31 / 28-13 / 28-36
Texas Tech 42-0 / 62-27 / 27-0 / 20-3
Oregon 64-10 / 56-13 / 21-27/ 21-23
(The Ducks were mentioned as a team that gets off to slow starts and wears a team down as the game goes along. The opposite is true: they jump on teams and get to play reserves throughout the second half, which we don't get to do and which makes it harder to develop depth and future starters.)
Baylor 17-3, 17-20, 35-7, 38-17
Nevada 42-9, 10-24, 28-24, 27-33
Marshall 17-13, 31-41, 38-28, 24-38
Oklahoma 21-7 / 21-14 / 24-3 / 27-0
Florida State 63-0 / 51-3 / 34-0 / 28-0
Indiana 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Troy 38-27 / 43-13 / 7-21 / 21-3
Syracuse 13-17 / 16-28 / 34-21 / 41-28
Nebraska 42-14 / 38-30 / 17-13 / 24-12
Georgia Tech 42-14 / 24-0 / 28-0 / 38-26 / 0-3 (ot)
Tulsa 58-16 / 35-20 / 10-7 / 31-21
Air Force 10-7 / 28-7 / 21-28 / 15-10
Georgia 28-13 / 33-27 / 43-10 / 42-13
Clemson 23-14 / 55-13 / 17-16 / 24-10
Fresno State 63-3 / 51-13 / 7-17 / 27-16
(Did you see the box on their game with Colorado? They won 69-14. They were ahead 55-7 at the half and had already gained 516 yards. What the heck has happened to the Buffs? They are 0-3 and also lost to Sacramento State, an FCS team.)
Texas 24-9 / 48-10 / 42-14 / 34-15
Texas Christian 35-3, 17-3, 24-0, 0-0
(That's right, they have 35 points in the 1st quarter and none in the 4th.)
Mississippi 21-17 / 24-34 / 28-31 / 35-21

Overall: 882-274 / 841-461 / 665-356 / 698-424
Average: 13-4 / 12-7 / 10-5 / 10-6 Total: 45-22

These teams have played 69 games and are 54-15, (several have played each other). They have led at halftime 49 times and been even 4 others. Of the 16 tiems they have been behind at halftime, we account for three of them, as well as two of the losses.

Most of these schools run somehting akin to our no-huddle. I don't think the notion that slow starts have to be tolerated in this type of offense is bourne out by their results so far.

Great work, as usual. I think the most telling thing that Marrone said this week was that they start the game with a 15 play script before they make any changes (at least that's what I took out of it). Once they get through that "script", then they start adjusting and calling the plays based more on feel and game situation. That tells me we are good at adjusting, but that the 15 play script to start the game based on scouting is probably not the best way to start the game on offense. He also said that they do that because we don't have a good enough offense to just do whatever we want without a care for how the defense is going to stop it. I disagree, as we've seen that once we starting doing whatever we want in the game we roll up +500 yards/game of offense. I say throw out the "script" and just call plays based on the game situation and your gut feeling at the time. It can't go any worse than we've done already at the beginning of the games!

 

[SWC75]

I'm not talking about USC and stony brook.

I'm talking about Oregon.

Looking at what they did against Arkansas state doesn't tell you much.

And i never said they "just" wear teams down. Straw man

two thumbs down.

The point is, 500 yard performances against anyone should produce similar results on the scoreboard. The oppositon is irrelevant: they didn't prevent you from getting 500 yards. And teams averaging 500 yards per game dont' tend to get off to slow starts and be behind at halftime.

Marrone clearly isn't staisfied with our starts. He isn't accepting the idea that fast pace offenses will get their points in the second half, after they've worn down the opposition.

 

[Millhouse]

The point is, 500 yard performances against anyone should produce similar results on the scoreboard. The oppositon is irrelevant: they didn't prevent you from getting 500 yards. And teams averaging 500 yards per game dont' tend to get off to slow starts and be behind at halftime.

Marrone clearly isn't staisfied with our starts. He isn't accepting the idea that fast pace offenses will get their points in the second half, after they've worn down the opposition.

well you're just assuming that teams don't have enough time to get 500 yards unless they're very good at the start of games. but no huddles effectively give you more time

 

[Chip]

500 yards is 500 yards. It's supposed to convert into points. 500 yards should produce the same scoring vs. USC it would vs. Stony Brook.

It did.

SB had 2 goal line stands against us. It sucked but it's not like it was hard to figure out why 500 yards didn't equal 42 points.