State of the Program...

[newmexicuse]

Wow, I am in shock as to how things have done a 180 degrees turn-around for the worse.

I could have handles losing Tyler and now most likely Jerami if we had made a deep run and ended the program on an up note, but now to be living with the taste of our own crash and burn and to see a FF of UConn and Kentucky - OUCH !!!!

Next year looks glum.

Most likely starters - X, McC, Roberson, Cooney, and Joseph. That is two frosh, one soph who may as well be a frosh for all the run he got this year, one senior who is improving too slowly and has never fulfilled expectations, and one shooting guard who has yet to prove that he can hit more than 30% from afar when it counts despite three years in the program.

The bench - G - we know what we will get, and it won't be enough. Can BJ and/or Buss make the big leap ?? The backup center - is a redshirt frosh (assuming DC2 doesn't make it back).

The good news is that Jimmy seems to do his best coaching jobs when the expectations are lowest. He will need to be COY candidate to get this group in the top twenty.

For all the hullabaloo about recruiting, we have a thin roster and not enough committed help coming in to date. Of course, it is early and next year's class is off to a very solid start and can end up being a great class if it can be rounded out with some solid bigs.

The collegiate world is changing. We really haven't been too successful recruiting wise in attracting the Top Ten big time game changers. We have been very strong in getting the 25 to 50 ranked type of kids. This strategy would have working if these kids had stayed for two or three contributing years as the staff was anticipating, but now it seems they have one solid season and they are outta here just like the top ten mega talents. Our system accentuates that trend because if our guys play 35 MPG they get more exposure and their stats get relatively inflated. This trend to one good season and gone has blown up the staff's plans. For example, this season our PGs should have been MCW and Tyler - next year Tyler and Kaleb. We should have gotten another year from Jerami. So in a sense we are now in the netherworld of recruiting kids who aren't the mega talents to lead us to the promised land as frosh, but are too good to stick around to really mature and become truly great championship caliber college players.

Now, of course, we do have to bring in the best kids that we can, but we also need to expand our recruiting to bring in more of the 4 year types of players. Guys with good skills, but less than elite athleticism who will grow and become solid college type players as juniors and seniors. Sort of the high mid-major model. Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Arinze, and CJ types. We need more of these types of guys, players who will be good enough to make the rotation, but who are less than elite.

It can be argued that X, G, and Cooney are these types of players, but in reality they were not recruited as the "program" types of kids. They were all highly ranked kids who simply have not as of yet fulfilled expectations. So there is a difference between those that disappoint and those that improve steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that we should adjust our recruiting strategy to find kids with better skills and less athleticism. Lately, Jimmy wants the athleticism so that they can play the Zone better, at least in theory. It should be apparent that if there is athleticism wo sufficient skills and/or experience that it simply isn't enough.

I know - long and rambling - and maybe not enough of a point to this post, but that is the unfortunate state of my mind right now.

 

[SUintheVille]

New York State

As for whether next year looks rosy or glum, at least it'll be basketball season again!

 

[cuseguy]

There will be no expectations whatsoever next year. So anything they accomplish will be gravy.

 

[ROCuse]

There will be no expectations whatsoever next year. So anything they accomplish will be gravy.

On the bright side (maybe)...I think a big part of Ennis' draft stock came from Syracuse's hot start, #1 ranking, media coverage, etc. If next year is a down year, maybe we don't lose anyone. I like when players stay and develop from season to season. '15-16 would have an experienced team with a nice group of freshmen coming in.

 

[Madbiker]

Wow, I am in shock as to how things have done a 180 degrees turn-around for the worse.

I could have handles losing Tyler and now most likely Jerami if we had made a deep run and ended the program on an up note, but now to be living with the taste of our own crash and burn and to see a FF of UConn and Kentucky - OUCH !!!!

Next year looks glum.

Most likely starters - X, McC, Roberson, Cooney, and Joseph. That is two frosh, one soph who may as well be a frosh for all the run he got this year, one senior who is improving too slowly and has never fulfilled expectations, and one shooting guard who has yet to prove that he can hit more than 30% from afar when it counts despite three years in the program.

The bench - G - we know what we will get, and it won't be enough. Can BJ and/or Buss make the big leap ?? The backup center - is a redshirt frosh (assuming DC2 doesn't make it back).

The good news is that Jimmy seems to do his best coaching jobs when the expectations are lowest. He will need to be COY candidate to get this group in the top twenty.

For all the hullabaloo about recruiting, we have a thin roster and not enough committed help coming in to date. Of course, it is early and next year's class is off to a very solid start and can end up being a great class if it can be rounded out with some solid bigs.

The collegiate world is changing. We really haven't been too successful recruiting wise in attracting the Top Ten big time game changers. We have been very strong in getting the 25 to 50 ranked type of kids. This strategy would have working if these kids had stayed for two or three contributing years as the staff was anticipating, but now it seems they have one solid season and they are outta here just like the top ten mega talents. Our system accentuates that trend because if our guys play 35 MPG they get more exposure and their stats get relatively inflated. This trend to one good season and gone has blown up the staff's plans. For example, this season our PGs should have been MCW and Tyler - next year Tyler and Kaleb. We should have gotten another year from Jerami. So in a sense we are now in the netherworld of recruiting kids who aren't the mega talents to lead us to the promised land as frosh, but are too good to stick around to really mature and become truly great championship caliber college players.

Now, of course, we do have to bring in the best kids that we can, but we also need to expand our recruiting to bring in more of the 4 year types of players. Guys with good skills, but less than elite athleticism who will grow and become solid college type players as juniors and seniors. Sort of the high mid-major model. Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Arinze, and CJ types. We need more of these types of guys, players who will be good enough to make the rotation, but who are less than elite.

It can be argued that X, G, and Cooney are these types of players, but in reality they were not recruited as the "program" types of kids. They were all highly ranked kids who simply have not as of yet fulfilled expectations. So there is a difference between those that disappoint and those that improve steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that we should adjust our recruiting strategy to find kids with better skills and less athleticism. Lately, Jimmy wants the athleticism so that they can play the Zone better, at least in theory. It should be apparent that if there is athleticism wo sufficient skills and/or experience that it simply isn't enough.

I know - long and rambling - and maybe not enough of a point to this post, but that is the unfortunate state of my mind right now.

It wouldn't surprise me if JB changes his recruiting philosophy in favor of more 4 year program guys (ranked 50-150) and doesn't go after any guys in the top 40. He almost never goes after top 10 guys as it is. I think he's tired of getting burned with early defections and feels particularly upset with both Ennis and Grant who are not NBA ready by any means but syanara. Of course that change will only make it more difficult to win big.

 

[jdubs30]

It wouldn't surprise me if JB changes his recruiting philosophy in favor of more 4 year program guys (ranked 50-150) and doesn't go after any guys in the top 40. He almost never goes after top 10 guys as it is. I think he's tired of getting burned with early defections and feels particularly upset with both Ennis and Grant who are not NBA ready by any means but syanara. Of course that change will only make it more difficult to win big.

You don't tell talented kids no.

 

[anomander]

It wouldn't surprise me if JB changes his recruiting philosophy in favor of more 4 year program guys (ranked 50-150) and doesn't go after any guys in the top 40. He almost never goes after top 10 guys as it is. I think he's tired of getting burned with early defections and feels particularly upset with both Ennis and Grant who are not NBA ready by any means but syanara. Of course that change will only make it more difficult to win big.

Not a chance

 

[Alsacs]

Watching this mediocre UConn team play for a NC just tells me our program doesn't overachieve enough. We have as many Final Four seasons 1987, 1996, 2003, 2013 as we do NIT seasons 1997 , 2002, 2007, 2008.
We are a good program but don't have the postseason success to be elite.
We lost in the NCAA tournament to lower seed in 2014, 2012, 2011,2010,2006, 2005,2004, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1988,
We lost as the lower seed in 2013,2009, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1995,1994, 1989,1987.
We don't overachieve enough for some fans

 

[Halfmooncuse]

We have no inside game and won't for the foreseeable future. Even our big man recruiting seems to be a bust. Daigne headed to Villanova, Bryant to ?. Lost Dakari to UK , Noel to Uk, Anthony Davis to KU, Vohnel (sp?) to Indiana. DC2 will never be the player all thought he would be. Xmas...oh well. The red shirt freshman from Rochester is our future.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Watching this mediocre UConn team play for a NC just tells me our program doesn't overachieve enough. We have as many Final Four seasons 1987, 1996, 2003, 2013 as we do NIT seasons 1997 , 2002, 2007, 2008.
We are a good program but don't have the postseason success to be elite.
We lost in the NCAA tournament to lower seed in 2014, 2012, 2011,2010,2006, 2005,2004, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1988,
We lost as the lower seed in 2013,2009, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1995,1994, 1989,1987.
We don't overachieve enough for some fans

Watching rival teams like UConn and Lville consistently overachieving and garnering success when it matters the most is what is really annoying.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Watching this mediocre UConn team play for a NC just tells me our program doesn't overachieve enough. We have as many Final Four seasons 1987, 1996, 2003, 2013 as we do NIT seasons 1997 , 2002, 2007, 2008.
We are a good program but don't have the postseason success to be elite.
We lost in the NCAA tournament to lower seed in 2014, 2012, 2011,2010,2006, 2005,2004, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1988,
We lost as the lower seed in 2013,2009, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1995,1994, 1989,1987.
We don't overachieve enough for some fans

I agree. Next year will be very important in my eyes to see if there is improvement towards the end of the season. Even thought we made the Final 4 last year I did not like how the offense was playing outside of Montana. The defense was stellar but the offense was horrendous in the 2H of the IU/Marq/most of UM. The Elite 8 teams and anybody who lost those close games to UK were really clicking on offense. Very few mistakes, obvious plan of attack, poise, playing without thinking and just reacting, etc. I am not really sure how much 'teaching' of fundamentals Boeheim does but he may need to have to start doing that next season. I am interested to see how this plays out and if we'll see the team improve and surge into March.

 

[jordoo]

I could have handled . . . . .
Next year looks glum . . . . .

Give up now and go away then or at least take a break and spare the rest of us. It still shocks me to see how weak minded so many posters are in their fandom. Morn, bitch, mown, throw things whatever I get it but its been almost two weeks. Also if you didn't at some point come to terms with the fact that it was very likely Ennis and Grant would go pro then you are only setting yourself up for this. These kids go to college for their bball careers end of story.

How can one not be excited about next year team?
Chris, Tyler and BJ all have more offensive talent than either Grant or Fair. Joseph IMO has better upside as a college player than Ennis although he is much more risk reward. We will run more next year and make more mistakes but at least two returning players will be better than most expect next year. Its one of those teams that JB will excel with because now that Grant is gone there is no real player that the staff will come in saying the offense is going to revolve around this guy which is good because like Fair Grant is more of a complimentary offensive player than a true scorer. (not a knock on either guy) Sure I worry a bit about depth at the 1 and 5 but its a new season of SU bball next year after some major roster turn over. How can one not be excited if they are a fan.

Yes UConn/UK sucks but guess what just don't watch.

Boo hoo I'm glad I've been avoiding this place. Beat on me if you want I stand by the fact that plenty of the posters here need to work on their fandom more than the players need to work on their games or the coaches need to work on their coaching. At least they are trying.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree. Next year will be very important in my eyes to see if there is improvement towards the end of the season. Even thought we made the Final 4 last year I did not like how the offense was playing outside of Montana. The defense was stellar but the offense was horrendous in the 2H of the IU/Marq/most of UM. The Elite 8 teams and anybody who lost those close games to UK were really clicking on offense. Very few mistakes, obvious plan of attack, poise, playing without thinking and just reacting, etc. I am not really sure how much 'teaching' of fundamentals Boeheim does but he may need to have to start doing that next season. I am interested to see how this plays out and if we'll see the team improve and surge into March.

Our offensive philosophy is either basic or our talent isn't good. Your right about Kentucky they have played solid defense, but Wichita State, Louisville, Michigan, and Wisconsin all looked good on offense against them.
Our program so freaking predictable to play against since 2012. What I would give for 2 3pt threats on the floor to keep a defense honest.
2013 is the only season since 2004 we overachieved. Thank god for 2003, but WE UNDERACHIEVE and it gets so tiring here people circle the wagons with political spin as if they are Karl Rove or David Axelrod defending JB. I don't care about bad luck it happens to almost everyone. UNC fans don't bring up Kendall Marshall's injury in 2012 like people here bring up Fab Melo we underachieved a lot.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It wouldn't surprise me if JB changes his recruiting philosophy in favor of more 4 year program guys (ranked 50-150) and doesn't go after any guys in the top 40. He almost never goes after top 10 guys as it is. I think he's tired of getting burned with early defections and feels particularly upset with both Ennis and Grant who are not NBA ready by any means but syanara. Of course that change will only make it more difficult to win big.

Intentionally not going after top 10 kids? Funniest thing I've read all week.

 

[anomander]

We have no inside game and won't for the foreseeable future. Even our big man recruiting seems to be a bust. Daigne headed to Villanova, Bryant to ?. Lost Dakari to UK , Noel to Uk, Anthony Davis to KU, Vohnel (sp?) to Indiana. DC2 will never be the player all thought he would be. Xmas...oh well. The red shirt freshman from Rochester is our future.

it's not that bad jeez

 

[HoustonCuse]

Wow, I am in shock as to how things have done a 180 degrees turn-around for the worse.

I could have handles losing Tyler and now most likely Jerami if we had made a deep run and ended the program on an up note, but now to be living with the taste of our own crash and burn and to see a FF of UConn and Kentucky - OUCH !!!!

Next year looks glum.

Most likely starters - X, McC, Roberson, Cooney, and Joseph. That is two frosh, one soph who may as well be a frosh for all the run he got this year, one senior who is improving too slowly and has never fulfilled expectations, and one shooting guard who has yet to prove that he can hit more than 30% from afar when it counts despite three years in the program.

The bench - G - we know what we will get, and it won't be enough. Can BJ and/or Buss make the big leap ?? The backup center - is a redshirt frosh (assuming DC2 doesn't make it back).

The good news is that Jimmy seems to do his best coaching jobs when the expectations are lowest. He will need to be COY candidate to get this group in the top twenty.

For all the hullabaloo about recruiting, we have a thin roster and not enough committed help coming in to date. Of course, it is early and next year's class is off to a very solid start and can end up being a great class if it can be rounded out with some solid bigs.

The collegiate world is changing. We really haven't been too successful recruiting wise in attracting the Top Ten big time game changers. We have been very strong in getting the 25 to 50 ranked type of kids. This strategy would have working if these kids had stayed for two or three contributing years as the staff was anticipating, but now it seems they have one solid season and they are outta here just like the top ten mega talents. Our system accentuates that trend because if our guys play 35 MPG they get more exposure and their stats get relatively inflated. This trend to one good season and gone has blown up the staff's plans. For example, this season our PGs should have been MCW and Tyler - next year Tyler and Kaleb. We should have gotten another year from Jerami. So in a sense we are now in the netherworld of recruiting kids who aren't the mega talents to lead us to the promised land as frosh, but are too good to stick around to really mature and become truly great championship caliber college players.

Now, of course, we do have to bring in the best kids that we can, but we also need to expand our recruiting to bring in more of the 4 year types of players. Guys with good skills, but less than elite athleticism who will grow and become solid college type players as juniors and seniors. Sort of the high mid-major model. Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Arinze, and CJ types. We need more of these types of guys, players who will be good enough to make the rotation, but who are less than elite.

It can be argued that X, G, and Cooney are these types of players, but in reality they were not recruited as the "program" types of kids. They were all highly ranked kids who simply have not as of yet fulfilled expectations. So there is a difference between those that disappoint and those that improve steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that we should adjust our recruiting strategy to find kids with better skills and less athleticism. Lately, Jimmy wants the athleticism so that they can play the Zone better, at least in theory. It should be apparent that if there is athleticism wo sufficient skills and/or experience that it simply isn't enough.

I know - long and rambling - and maybe not enough of a point to this post, but that is the unfortunate state of my mind right now.

Your post, of course makes no sense. But it makes no sense in an understandable way. We all are frustrated and the tendency is to look under every rock for things to fix. The first thing we must do is take UK and Yukon out of the picture. We know that what those teams are doing have nothing to do with what we are doing or what our outlook is. Secondly, as to recruiting, you are suggesting that because our team is not going to be good enough next year we should start recruiting less talented players.

I think you identified a real issue, but your solution is not the right one. I agree that we are currently getting very good but not top tier recruits (like Top 15 guys) and that strategy is absolutely perfect because those players are very very good but also likely to stay a few years. Unfortunately it has backfired because they are leaving early, basically after year 1 or 2. The aforementioned Yukon and Kentucky highlight the two different approaches: Yukon has a several players who were good, not great like Boat and Nape. They stayed until they became better than most of the guys they go against and Yukon makes a run - this is the mid-major type approach. Wichita State did that, for instance. Kentucky recruits only Top 5 kids and they made it on pure boom/bust because they know just about all their guys are gone no matter what happens. Syracuse is in between these two approaches: generally not enough talent to win an NC with Frosh/Soph level guys, but too much talent to have a ton of upperclassmen in key roles. I would suggest JB has recruited with the idea of preferring not to have a lot of one and done guys - but if he now sees they are becoming that anyway - then don't recruit lesser talents, you might as well go for the more elite guys. The logic being they if they are going to bail anyway, you might as well go for the talent upgrade.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not even one year ago we were a "selector school" because Malachi committed to us. Today we have to alter our recruiting philosophy...oh and BTW when Ennis committed everyone had him pegged as a program guy.

 

[Trueblue25]

Silent G will lead us to the promised land #teamgbinije

 

[dollarbill44]

A complete 180. It's really disappointing that we are already locked into a losing season next year.

Ok, sarcasm off. Get a grip people. We have a lot of talent on the roster. We will be fine.

 

[dasher]

How many teams would kill to have Chris and tyler at forward next year? We will be good again next year.

 

[El Jefe Syr]

I'm very much of the "things aren't as great as they seem in the best of times and things aren't as bad as they seem in the worst times.." camp. Coming out of last year, we were in a similar boat- personnel-wise. Our PG went to the NBA, our stud 3-pt. shooter graduated, as did our solid, 4-year veteran. Yet we'd just been to the final 4 so that influenced our perspective on this year.

Conjecture but - This year, if we'd had one or two more shots fall against Dayton, we may have beaten Stanford and maybe our zone would have given Florida some trouble...etc If these- or even one of them - happened a fan's outlook would be better.

For next year - I strongly believe that both Gbinije and Roberson will make significant leaps, Cooney will loosen a bit and hit a better %, Christmas will be a more consistent (but not flawless) 8 & 8 guy. I also think that we'll sacrifice a bit (but not all) of our stifling defense of the past 2-years for a higher-scoring, up-tempo offense.

Less certain, but very possible developments could also include (1) Joseph growing into another good-great freshman PG, (2) McC being a 10 & 8 player, (3) BJ having a Southerland-like impact off the bench... (there are more that I can't think of right now). So while we don't have a Jabari Parker or Embid coming through the door, there's quite a bit of raw materials here for a very good team.

I'm not expecting a NC run next year, but who knows, college B-ball teams tend to gel and get hot in unexpected ways and the sport becomes more unpredictable every year.

 

[Alsacs]

The state of our program is we will be fine now and in the future We recruit good players because we have a HOF coach, top notch practice facility named after an NBA superstar, we have a large home arena that will be attractive to play home games at and play in the best league for college hoops.
The state of the program would be sufficient if we weren't a hoops school first and just having a good regular seasons was good enough. We have always been good in the regular season JB has had just 2 years below .500 in Conference play. We have 4 Final Fours and 1 NC in 38 years that is great but if you were honest would admit is not as much as we should have. I love SU hoops and will support the program we just need to admit we are a good program but we have left a lot on the court. Consistency is great, but being disappointed we left a lot on the table is tough. I get 87 was tough thank god I was a young one during that game and that loss would probably set me off for disappointment.
However, our program is fine if you want to be competitive each year I just want to see more leaving up to expectations in March more often.

 

[br801]

Wow, I am in shock as to how things have done a 180 degrees turn-around for the worse.

I could have handles losing Tyler and now most likely Jerami if we had made a deep run and ended the program on an up note, but now to be living with the taste of our own crash and burn and to see a FF of UConn and Kentucky - OUCH !!!!

Next year looks glum.

Most likely starters - X, McC, Roberson, Cooney, and Joseph. That is two frosh, one soph who may as well be a frosh for all the run he got this year, one senior who is improving too slowly and has never fulfilled expectations, and one shooting guard who has yet to prove that he can hit more than 30% from afar when it counts despite three years in the program.

The bench - G - we know what we will get, and it won't be enough. Can BJ and/or Buss make the big leap ?? The backup center - is a redshirt frosh (assuming DC2 doesn't make it back).

The good news is that Jimmy seems to do his best coaching jobs when the expectations are lowest. He will need to be COY candidate to get this group in the top twenty.

For all the hullabaloo about recruiting, we have a thin roster and not enough committed help coming in to date. Of course, it is early and next year's class is off to a very solid start and can end up being a great class if it can be rounded out with some solid bigs.

The collegiate world is changing. We really haven't been too successful recruiting wise in attracting the Top Ten big time game changers. We have been very strong in getting the 25 to 50 ranked type of kids. This strategy would have working if these kids had stayed for two or three contributing years as the staff was anticipating, but now it seems they have one solid season and they are outta here just like the top ten mega talents. Our system accentuates that trend because if our guys play 35 MPG they get more exposure and their stats get relatively inflated. This trend to one good season and gone has blown up the staff's plans. For example, this season our PGs should have been MCW and Tyler - next year Tyler and Kaleb. We should have gotten another year from Jerami. So in a sense we are now in the netherworld of recruiting kids who aren't the mega talents to lead us to the promised land as frosh, but are too good to stick around to really mature and become truly great championship caliber college players.

Now, of course, we do have to bring in the best kids that we can, but we also need to expand our recruiting to bring in more of the 4 year types of players. Guys with good skills, but less than elite athleticism who will grow and become solid college type players as juniors and seniors. Sort of the high mid-major model. Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Arinze, and CJ types. We need more of these types of guys, players who will be good enough to make the rotation, but who are less than elite.

It can be argued that X, G, and Cooney are these types of players, but in reality they were not recruited as the "program" types of kids. They were all highly ranked kids who simply have not as of yet fulfilled expectations. So there is a difference between those that disappoint and those that improve steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that we should adjust our recruiting strategy to find kids with better skills and less athleticism. Lately, Jimmy wants the athleticism so that they can play the Zone better, at least in theory. It should be apparent that if there is athleticism wo sufficient skills and/or experience that it simply isn't enough.

I know - long and rambling - and maybe not enough of a point to this post, but that is the unfortunate state of my mind right now.

SWC75 should just bring you in to write his "Downside" posts and save himself some time.

 

[SC Orange]

I am counting down the days till next season. We may struggle at times but I would rather struggle through the OOC and peak during the tournament than the opposite. Why is everyone so negative when we have very good players coming in and had a few very good freshman who barely saw the court.

Y'all will come around when the season starts up. WAR DAMN OTTO.

 

[obliterata]

The program is in very good shape, we made deep runs in the NCAAT making it past the Sweet Sixteen in consecutive years (2012 and 2013) for the first time ever - it may not sound like much but it actually is a hard thing to do (the only ACC school to do it in the past 10 years is UNC). This year we went back to the norm but considering the recent NCAAT success and the better than typical regular seasons we've been having, the future is looking good.