Stop the Talk about Red zone Scoring

[Orijinal]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...ded_reason_for_optimism_with_spring_game.html

I'm so sick of all this talk by fans AND reporters about Syracuse's lack of scoring ability in the redzone: for multiple reasons:

1) It gets attention devoted to the wrong thing (how do we concoct ways to score in the redzone? We obviously HAVE to do something different than what we do on the rest of the field) That thinking is completely wrong. That brings me to point 2

2) What an offense does on the rest of the field matters just as much as what happens in the redzone. The focus should remain on this one question: Are we moving the ball consistently? If the answer is yes to that question, then scoring will come. It WILL happen. Maybe not game one or game 6, but scoring WILL come. Patience is absolutely necessary. Which brings me to point 3

3) Focusing on redzone scoring creates a false notion that scoring is separate from MOVING THE BALL, and that scoring needs to be created immediately regardless if a team has moved the ball between the 20's. Another false notion. Scoring happens as AN OUTGROWTH of MOVING THE BALL. If you want quick answers and expect the coaches to have them WITHOUT paying attention to the fact that an offense needs to establish something first, then we will continue to pressure coaches out the door, even when offenses show signs of improvement.

4) If you think this is just an opinion, then you are part of the problem. And the problem will persist until our thinking gets corrected. End Rant.

 

[Orijinal]

Watching the spring game, I was actually ENCOURAGED by the offense. More so than any other spring game I can recall since I have been paying close attention to it in the past 12 years? Why? Because even though no one snagged a touchdown, the ball moved down the field. Runs were broken off and a few big plays did occur.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Our QB's didn't run at all in the Spring game. In games, specifically the red zone, they will. The defense will have to account for that which will open up space for receivers and rb's alike. The Spring game D knew they didn't have to honor said qb runs.

 

[RMH44]

Our QB's didn't run at all in the Spring game. In games, specifically the red zone, they will. The defense will have to account for that which will open up space for receivers and rb's alike. The Spring game D knew they didn't have to honor said qb runs.

I agree. As vanilla as the "game" was, I really liked the passing schemes. No bubble screens and, for the first time since 2012, it looks like we'll be using the middle of the field exposing seams in the defense. Now...if only our QB's can deliver.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I agree. As vanilla as the "game" was, I really liked the passing schemes. No bubble screens and, for the first time since 2012, it looks like we'll be using the middle of the field exposing seams in the defense. Now...if only our QB's can deliver.

Agreed. I certainly would've liked to see more TD's but also know that Hunt ran for 6 TD's in a shortened year last year and 7 TD's the year prior. I also know it's much easier for a defense to read keys and play run or drop in coverage immediately if they know they don't have to watch for the qb to run. Minnesota found out the hard way they do in fact need to be aware of Hunt running in 2013.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Syracuse was 127th in the country (out of 128) in red zone TD percentage last year. If you want to score more points, you either have to convert more of those opportunities into 6, or get a lot more "big plays."

http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category27/sort05.html

Moving the ball down the field without scoring didn't exactly work out against Maryland, so I'm sure hoping Syracuse does two things more often in 2015- gets the ball into red zone opportunities and converts more into TD's.

 

[anomander]

I agree. As vanilla as the "game" was, I really liked the passing schemes. No bubble screens and, for the first time since 2012, it looks like we'll be using the middle of the field exposing seams in the defense. Now...if only our QB's can deliver.

That was one thing I took away. I know it was vanilla, and ran the same 5 or 6 plays, but I really liked the passing plays. I liked seeing us use the TE over the middle of the field, and I loved seeing us go deep. Now we just need to execute them.

 

[Millhouse]

Most teams can move the ball and red zone efficiency separates winners from losers. Lester's offense couldn't sniff the red zone most of the time so it was moot. I hope rz td% is something to worry about because that will mean they're moving the ball

 

[Millhouse]

Syracuse was 127th in the country (out of 128) in red zone TD percentage last year. If you want to score more points, you either have to convert more of those opportunities into 6, or get a lot more "big plays." http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category27/sort05.html Moving the ball down the field without scoring didn't exactly work out against Maryland, so I'm sure hoping Syracuse does two things more often in 2015- gets the ball into red zone opportunities and converts more into TD's.

If you can't move the ball your rz td % will suck accordingly when you miraculously end up there

 

[TheCusian]

Most teams can move the ball and red zone efficiency separates winners from losers. Lester's offense couldn't sniff the red zone most of the time so it was moot. I hope rz td% is something to worry about because that will mean they're moving the ball

We haven't seen Lester's offense yet.

 

[RMH44]

We haven't seen Lester's offense yet.

Come on...don't let that stop the prognostications ;-)

Like most of the data spewed here...garbage in, garbage out. Besides, how else can the naysayers build their straw men if you they're not allowed to move the goal posts when needed.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

The lack of Red Zone success is the most quantifiable way to explain how maddening this team was to watch last year. When they moved the ball, it felt like a lucky break. It was rare that they compiled a drive that had enough lucky breaks to score touchdowns.

 

[qdawgg]

This would be an interesting argument to make when I was in the car business for 8 years. Or I guess now, in the education business.

"I realize your daughter got a 1 on the AP economics exam but we are so close"

 

[rosconey]

the red zone is just a fable - a thing we tell kids about in these here parts to keep them interested in football- but its a place no su team dares to travel-

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This would be an interesting argument to make when I was in the car business for 8 years. Or I guess now, in the education business.

"I realize your daughter got a 1 on the AP economics exam but we are so close"

She's running with the 1s!

 

[Orijinal]

Syracuse was 127th in the country (out of 128) in red zone TD percentage last year. If you want to score more points, you either have to convert more of those opportunities into 6, or get a lot more "big plays."

http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category27/sort05.html

Moving the ball down the field without scoring didn't exactly work out against Maryland, so I'm sure hoping Syracuse does two things more often in 2015- gets the ball into red zone opportunities and converts more into TD's.

Okay. Here's my response to that. Syracuse DID move the ball against Maryland. That was fantastic. And they should have won that game. That game showed improvement from the offensive coordinator. And 6 points were wiped off the board that day because Lewis went stone hands on a pass that hit him in the chest. But guess what? Because we needed points, points, points, and points NOW, the offensive coordinator was unceremoniously dismissed not long after that. And what happened? The offense took a HUGE step backward, not even coming CLOSE to scoring. Why? Because we couldn't move the ball.

I think McDonald would have needed to go. But I wonder what would have happened throughout the rest of the season if he had been retained. Again, when a team moves the ball it WILL eventually score. Not necessarily the first 5 or 6 games they get into a rhythm, but eventually that team will begin to score the ball.

 

[Orijinal]

If you can't move the ball your rz td % will suck accordingly when you miraculously end up there

Spot on. Exactly.

 

[Millhouse]

Okay. Here's my response to that. Syracuse DID move the ball against Maryland. That was fantastic. And they should have won that game. That game showed improvement from the offensive coordinator. And 6 points were wiped off the board that day because Lewis went stone hands on a pass that hit him in the chest. But guess what? Because we needed points, points, points, and points NOW, the offensive coordinator was unceremoniously dismissed not long after that. And what happened? The offense took a HUGE step backward, not even coming CLOSE to scoring. Why? Because we couldn't move the ball.

I think McDonald would have needed to go. But I wonder what would have happened throughout the rest of the season if he had been retained. Again, when a team moves the ball it WILL eventually score. Not necessarily the first 5 or 6 games they get into a rhythm, but eventually that team will begin to score the ball.

i think that's right 80 to 90% of the time

but it's possible that mcdonald might just be dumb enough to get us in that 10-20%. as it turns out, his insane quotes in the paper sped up his inevitable departure.

we've seen plenty of dud mcdonald games to assume they would've taken a giant step back anyway.

lester is a very lucky guy. gets promoted with no expectations and ends up in a coordinator role he might not have been hired externally for

 

[OttoinGrotto]

lester is a very lucky guy. gets promoted with no expectations and ends up in a coordinator role he might not have been hired externally for

It's almost as if Shafer looked around at o-coordinator and was like "*** it."

I kid, I kid!

 

[Orijinal]

i think that's right 80 to 90% of the time

but it's possible that mcdonald might just be dumb enough to get us in that 10-20%. as it turns out, his insane quotes in the paper sped up his inevitable departure.

And I think, bottom line, that's why he had to be let go regardless of outcome on a football field.

 

[Orijinal]

It's almost as if Shafer looked around at o-coordinator and was like "*** it."

I kid, I kid!

Big Grin

 

[NineOneSeven]

Game 6?

 

[Orijinal]

Game 6?

Why it takes patience with an offensive system. Which most do not have. Not too bad though if a team is coming into it's own in the last 3 games of a season and continues to build 3 games into the next.

It seems that offenses go through 3 stages:
1) Offensive ineptitude, where it doesn't matter where you are on the field, you are guaranteed 3-5 plays and out
2) Offensive movement and frustration, where 6 to 8 plays are strung together consistently whenever your team's offense comes onto the field but is unable to capitalize and score (this lasts more than a few games/400 yrds of offense and 13 pts)
3) Scoring 28-35 points a game consistently

A fan base usually has to suffer through #2 to get to #3 unless you just bring in a O coordinator who has proven himself--which Syracuse NEVER does. So we gotta get through it and break through to the other side.

 

[Millhouse]

Why it takes patience with an offensive system. Which most do not have. Not too bad though if a team is coming into it's own in the last 3 games of a season and continues to build 3 games into the next.

It seems that offenses go through 3 stages:
1) Offensive ineptitude, where it doesn't matter where you are on the field, you are guaranteed 3-5 plays and out
2) Offensive movement and frustration, where 6 to 8 plays are strung together consistently whenever your team's offense comes onto the field but is unable to capitalize and score (this lasts more than a few games/400 yrds of offense and 13 pts)
3) Scoring 28-35 points a game consistently

A fan base usually has to suffer through #2 to get to #3 unless you just bring in a O coordinator who has proven himself--which Syracuse NEVER does. So we gotta get through it and break through to the other side.

plenty of unproven coordinators are good from the get go. mcf'it wasn't one of them, unfortunately

 

[SU68]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...ded_reason_for_optimism_with_spring_game.html

I'm so sick of all this talk by fans AND reporters about Syracuse's lack of scoring ability in the redzone: for multiple reasons:

1) It gets attention devoted to the wrong thing (how do we concoct ways to score in the redzone? We obviously HAVE to do something different than what we do on the rest of the field) That thinking is completely wrong. That brings me to point 2

2) What an offense does on the rest of the field matters just as much as what happens in the redzone. The focus should remain on this one question: Are we moving the ball consistently? If the answer is yes to that question, then scoring will come. It WILL happen. Maybe not game one or game 6, but scoring WILL come. Patience is absolutely necessary. Which brings me to point 3

3) Focusing on redzone scoring creates a false notion that scoring is separate from MOVING THE BALL, and that scoring needs to be created immediately regardless if a team has moved the ball between the 20's. Another false notion. Scoring happens as AN OUTGROWTH of MOVING THE BALL. If you want quick answers and expect the coaches to have them WITHOUT paying attention to the fact that an offense needs to establish something first, then we will continue to pressure coaches out the door, even when offenses show signs of improvement.

4) If you think this is just an opinion, then you are part of the problem. And the problem will persist until our thinking gets corrected. End Rant.

I guess I'm part of the problem, then, since we can't score (to date) in the red zone. It is a problem that can be remedied by two things: (1) find a quarterback that can accurately throw the ball farther than I can (10 yds) and (2) change our decade-long series formula of run-run-pass-kick.