Storylines: Postseason edition | Syracusefan.com

Storylines: Postseason edition

billsin01

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So I do these occasionally but it's always good to step back and try to put into perspective some of the trends going on within a season as well as maybe putting it in the context of some of our past few seasons. With that said:

Funny how one game can change a narrative
There has been a ton of criticism of JB and a massive amount of hand-wringing (right around the time we lost out on the Quade Sweepstakes) the past 8 months or so. Much of this, to be fair, was justified. Ugly loss to Dayton in 14, self-imposed tourney ban in a relatively bad year in '15, a poor regular season saved by a miraculous tourney run, and then two missed tourneys in a row -- that's a bad look outside of the three-week run at the end of the 16 season.

But now they sneak into the tourney (first surprise), then they win a play-in game and beat former nemesis Jamie Dixon. To be fair, we're playing with house money Sunday but now a W over MSU and another week in the tourney. I feel Duke is the favorite (along with Nova perhaps) to win this whole thing so a win Friday seems extremely unlikely, but regardless, a Braedon Bayer tie-up, a sweet Battle step-back and a few free throws means we're in the second weekend of the tourney for the second time in three years, most of the team *should* return (never really know about this stuff) and we have what should be a really solid recruiting class coming in next season. One win isn't a cure-all, but regardless, it's amazing how quickly things change ... which brings us to the first of two points about JB ...

JB always plays to win whatever game he's in ... and generally that's a good thing
There is always talk of kids being Boeheimed and, in bad seasons, feelings that we should 'play for the future'. But to JB's credit -- all he cares about is trying to beat whatever team he's playing. If it means playing his guards 40 mpg in november, he'll do it. If it means continuing to run Sidibe out there on one leg b/c you desperately need minutes from a big, he'll do it. If it means Moyer gets stuck on the bench at times even though it doesn't help his long-term development, oh well. If we'd like to see Howard Washington get more minutes b/c he could fill a key role in '18-'19 or beyond? We'll work on that later.

The man will always frustrate people, but he never quit on the season, the team continues to play ridiculously hard and, against all odds, they somehow managed to steer a season on the brink of disaster a year ago into a year where they were seriously considered for the tourney and this season into a year where they slipped in and actually made some noise. Give the man his due for that much at least.

JB, always considered a 'roll the ball out there' coach, has somehow become a tough tourney coach
The knock on JB for a long time was that he got talent but never could win games that really mattered. Always felt this was a bit of a misnomer (Illinois loss was just two loaded teams playing a tough game, UMass was an emerging power, Missouri and Arkansas were coin-flip games against really tough teams, Marqutte was an 11-seed but had two future really good NBA players in Butler and Crowder in addition to a good scorer in Johnson-Odum, then you had some losses to better teams -- KU as a 4-seed, Duke and MSU as 1-seeds. Really feel like there were a couple brutal losses in there -- Richmond, UVM, Rhode Island -- and then a few disappointments -- Oklahoma State, A&M, Alabama, etc. Never thought it was that bad a record when you added in the 97 and 96 runs as well as the 03 title. But I digress).

Back to the point -- If you look at JB's record since the loss to A&M in 09 (I pick this point b/c you had two disappointments followed by two missed tourneys) he's 20-7 in the last 8 appearances. That record might even look better if Fab and Onuaku were eligible/healthy. The only 'bad' loss in there is Dayton. Pretty impressive.

Dolezaj's development
I'm fairly certain that most here believe the arrival of Bazely and the expected return of Chuckwu/Sidibe/Brissett will relegate Dolezaj to a cheerleader next year, should he return (and I still don't really understand why he wouldn't). But the kid has shown a little game the past six games. Since getting shut out in the brutal loss to BC, he's put up 10.3 ppg (obviously skewed by the 17 against TCU and 20 vs. Wake) but he's also just been more aggressive in looking for his shot. He is still averaging less than 5 FG attempts per game, but he's put up 42 FG attempts in that span (8.3 FGA) and even if you take the TCU game out, he's averaged nearly 6 FGAs per game. He's also 15 of 19 from the line with some big FTs in that stretch. Not sure he's a guy other teams are worried about just yet, but I find it hard to believe there's not a role for him next year particularly since injuries and foul trouble happen.

Is Battle truly an NBA departure after this season?
Let me begin by trying to avoid getting screamed at by half the board: A) If he wants to go pro and see what he can do, I absolutely respect the decision and hold no ill will. B) He's been huge for this team and I"m not trying to disparage what he's done as our primary and sometimes only offensive threat.

OK, with that out of the way, and even throwing out his numbers (his FG%/3 pt%/eFG% aren't real exciting), the positives with him are that he's a long guard who should be a solid defender at any level, he's a solid athlete who works well in the mid-range and would probably benefit from playing with more offensive talent around him. But he's a really inconsistent shooter (even the few wide open looks he gets can turn into ugly misses), he has a slow release and limited range (these two are probably linked by the hitch in the shot), and he's not terribly shifty or quick which limits his effectiveness off the dribble.

So again, I love the kid and he's been great, but I just don't see NBA written on him. Good student, great player -- if he was asking me (which I doubt happens, though I'll be by my phone), I'd be thinking, 'Dude, maybe you can knock out your degree or close to it by the end of next season, play on a really good team that could do even more damage in March, and then you can work on your game and see what opportunities are there at the next level." Seems logical to me.

Are we finally seeing the beginnings of the return of some continuity?
Want a simple narrative to the struggles of the past four years? Try continuity. While Carolina and Villanova are winning games by the dozen with a bunch of decently talented veterans, we've been trying patch holes with grad transfers and green freshman. But this year, while we've certainly struggled, we've seen a bunch of players who aren't really early departure candidates in Dolezaj, Moyer, Washington, Howard, Chuckwu, and Sidibe. We are mostly expecting (I think) Brissett to return. Hughes doesn't feel like a guy who plays a year and then goes in the first round and outside of Bazely, Carey and Buddy feel like guys we should see around the program for a few years. Now, we never know how this stuff will go -- in the past few years we lost Ennis (not somebody most thought was a 1-and-done guy), Grant (couldn't shoot a jumper), Richardson (shot like 36% from the field for the year) and McCullough (who played about 8 solid games) to the NBA and transfer (BJ) and then whatever the hell happened with Geno. But it feels like the seeds are there at least. One can hope.
 
So I do these occasionally but it's always good to step back and try to put into perspective some of the trends going on within a season as well as maybe putting it in the context of some of our past few seasons. With that said:

Funny how one game can change a narrative
There has been a ton of criticism of JB and a massive amount of hand-wringing (right around the time we lost out on the Quade Sweepstakes) the past 8 months or so. Much of this, to be fair, was justified. Ugly loss to Dayton in 14, self-imposed tourney ban in a relatively bad year in '15, a poor regular season saved by a miraculous tourney run, and then two missed tourneys in a row -- that's a bad look outside of the three-week run at the end of the 16 season.

But now they sneak into the tourney (first surprise), then they win a play-in game and beat former nemesis Jamie Dixon. To be fair, we're playing with house money Sunday but now a W over MSU and another week in the tourney. I feel Duke is the favorite (along with Nova perhaps) to win this whole thing so a win Friday seems extremely unlikely, but regardless, a Braedon Bayer tie-up, a sweet Battle step-back and a few free throws means we're in the second weekend of the tourney for the second time in three years, most of the team *should* return (never really know about this stuff) and we have what should be a really solid recruiting class coming in next season. One win isn't a cure-all, but regardless, it's amazing how quickly things change ... which brings us to the first of two points about JB ...

JB always plays to win whatever game he's in ... and generally that's a good thing
There is always talk of kids being Boeheimed and, in bad seasons, feelings that we should 'play for the future'. But to JB's credit -- all he cares about is trying to beat whatever team he's playing. If it means playing his guards 40 mpg in november, he'll do it. If it means continuing to run Sidibe out there on one leg b/c you desperately need minutes from a big, he'll do it. If it means Moyer gets stuck on the bench at times even though it doesn't help his long-term development, oh well. If we'd like to see Howard Washington get more minutes b/c he could fill a key role in '18-'19 or beyond? We'll work on that later.

The man will always frustrate people, but he never quit on the season, the team continues to play ridiculously hard and, against all odds, they somehow managed to steer a season on the brink of disaster a year ago into a year where they were seriously considered for the tourney and this season into a year where they slipped in and actually made some noise. Give the man his due for that much at least.

JB, always considered a 'roll the ball out there' coach, has somehow become a tough tourney coach
The knock on JB for a long time was that he got talent but never could win games that really mattered. Always felt this was a bit of a misnomer (Illinois loss was just two loaded teams playing a tough game, UMass was an emerging power, Missouri and Arkansas were coin-flip games against really tough teams, Marqutte was an 11-seed but had two future really good NBA players in Butler and Crowder in addition to a good scorer in Johnson-Odum, then you had some losses to better teams -- KU as a 4-seed, Duke and MSU as 1-seeds. Really feel like there were a couple brutal losses in there -- Richmond, UVM, Rhode Island -- and then a few disappointments -- Oklahoma State, A&M, Alabama, etc. Never thought it was that bad a record when you added in the 97 and 96 runs as well as the 03 title. But I digress).

Back to the point -- If you look at JB's record since the loss to A&M in 09 (I pick this point b/c you had two disappointments followed by two missed tourneys) he's 20-7 in the last 8 appearances. That record might even look better if Fab and Onuaku were eligible/healthy. The only 'bad' loss in there is Dayton. Pretty impressive.

Dolezaj's development
I'm fairly certain that most here believe the arrival of Bazely and the expected return of Chuckwu/Sidibe/Brissett will relegate Dolezaj to a cheerleader next year, should he return (and I still don't really understand why he wouldn't). But the kid has shown a little game the past six games. Since getting shut out in the brutal loss to BC, he's put up 10.3 ppg (obviously skewed by the 17 against TCU and 20 vs. Wake) but he's also just been more aggressive in looking for his shot. He is still averaging less than 5 FG attempts per game, but he's put up 42 FG attempts in that span (8.3 FGA) and even if you take the TCU game out, he's averaged nearly 6 FGAs per game. He's also 15 of 19 from the line with some big FTs in that stretch. Not sure he's a guy other teams are worried about just yet, but I find it hard to believe there's not a role for him next year particularly since injuries and foul trouble happen.

Is Battle truly an NBA departure after this season?
Let me begin by trying to avoid getting screamed at by half the board: A) If he wants to go pro and see what he can do, I absolutely respect the decision and hold no ill will. B) He's been huge for this team and I"m not trying to disparage what he's done as our primary and sometimes only offensive threat.

OK, with that out of the way, and even throwing out his numbers (his FG%/3 pt%/eFG% aren't real exciting), the positives with him are that he's a long guard who should be a solid defender at any level, he's a solid athlete who works well in the mid-range and would probably benefit from playing with more offensive talent around him. But he's a really inconsistent shooter (even the few wide open looks he gets can turn into ugly misses), he has a slow release and limited range (these two are probably linked by the hitch in the shot), and he's not terribly shifty or quick which limits his effectiveness off the dribble.

So again, I love the kid and he's been great, but I just don't see NBA written on him. Good student, great player -- if he was asking me (which I doubt happens, though I'll be by my phone), I'd be thinking, 'Dude, maybe you can knock out your degree or close to it by the end of next season, play on a really good team that could do even more damage in March, and then you can work on your game and see what opportunities are there at the next level." Seems logical to me.

Are we finally seeing the beginnings of the return of some continuity?
Want a simple narrative to the struggles of the past four years? Try continuity. While Carolina and Villanova are winning games by the dozen with a bunch of decently talented veterans, we've been trying patch holes with grad transfers and green freshman. But this year, while we've certainly struggled, we've seen a bunch of players who aren't really early departure candidates in Dolezaj, Moyer, Washington, Howard, Chuckwu, and Sidibe. We are mostly expecting (I think) Brissett to return. Hughes doesn't feel like a guy who plays a year and then goes in the first round and outside of Bazely, Carey and Buddy feel like guys we should see around the program for a few years. Now, we never know how this stuff will go -- in the past few years we lost Ennis (not somebody most thought was a 1-and-done guy), Grant (couldn't shoot a jumper), Richardson (shot like 36% from the field for the year) and McCullough (who played about 8 solid games) to the NBA and transfer (BJ) and then whatever the hell happened with Geno. But it feels like the seeds are there at least. One can hope.

Bump. I always enjoy your posts bill and I didn't even see this until this morning. Board was just too busy yesterday so moving this to the top.
 
Don’t think we missed two tourneys in a row.
 
But to JB's credit -- all he cares about is trying to beat whatever team he's playing.

In the end, this is exactly what they pay the coach to do. After all, what else can a coach control? As we've seen over the past few seasons, very little.

But if he can just get wins, and then a few more wins, he's gotta figure that - ultimately - the rest will fall into place and the program will be alright.
 
Well done Billsin01!

I particularly liked your take on Marek. To me there is no way that he will spend a long time on the bench next year. He truly does understand the game and seems to always be in the right spot at the right time. With some more experience and conditioning he will be one of the players taking a big jump into next year.
It doesn't hurt a bit that JB obviously appreciates what he has brought to the team.
 
Bills, your thoughtful posts are the best! I agree about Marek. I think Boeheim appreciates him and that he will start next year. Coach is extremely loyal and values upperclassmen so unless something (wonderfully) weird happens next year, I believe he will start and contribute.

This current team’s attitude is very impressive. They feel they can get the job done. They don’t panic. They say Boeheim is calm, and so he calms them down. He did say that he only tells them one thing per huddle because that’s all they’ll remember. :)
 
The lack of depth has forced PT for Frank, Marek and Chewy and thankfully took the decision out of Boeheims hands. It has let the 3 develop into solid players that would not have happened otherwise. I like Boeheim, he's a great coach but patience is not his virtue when it comes to developing players that are not "established" so to speak. He will let X make mistakes while Y he yanks out in a millisecond if they make a mistake. Boeheim has his comfort zone and won't change it unless forced...which he has been this year due the injuries and players leaving.

That said, I don't see the kids in practice and if they are making the same mistakes over and over again I understand the lack of patience during the game. There's no doubt in my mind that if you have thin skin and are fighting for playing time...you are probably going to struggle for PT. Once you start looking over your shoulder (playing hesitant) it's over before it began.
 
Last edited:
2006-07
2007-08
The OP implied that SU missed 2 tournaments since the 2016 Final Four. It was only 1, unless this year doesn’t count as a tournament year.
 
You lost me at “most of this criticism was, to be fair, justified”.

Who says?
 
The OP implied that SU missed 2 tournaments since the 2016 Final Four. It was only 1, unless this year doesn’t count as a tournament year.

Sorry -- meant that it looked like they were missing this year which would have made the narrative kind of ugly loss to dayton in 14, relatively bad season with missed tourney/probation in 15, bad regular season with crazy tourney run in 16, then two missed tourneys. Point being that a little luck allowing us to slip in this year has made a huge difference. Kind of confusing the way I wrote it.
 
Marek's role on the team next year is what I am most intrigued by. We are better when he is in the game this year and I don't see why that would change next year. He is going to need to be fit into our mix.
 
You lost me at “most of this criticism was, to be fair, justified”.

Who says?

I can see that. I'm not nearly as critical as most but I think there are fair points of criticism with JB and the program in general. It's also logical that there is going to be far more criticism in a down period than in the periods of big success (09-15 or whatever end point you want to use).

I simply mean that if you want to criticize JB for recruiting misses, there is fair criticism. If you want to hold JB ultimately responsible for the sanctions, you can do that fairly and it obviously had a negative impact on the program. There was negative impact from the succession plan and some folks will blame the administration/JB for that. Not sure I agree but it obviously was something of a factor as well. And within the games themselves I don't think it's out of bounds to criticize JB for riding guys 40 minutes or his offensive approach etc.

I do think the criticism often lacks perspective and goes overboard, but I don't think it's unfair to look back at the past four years or so and be pretty disappointed with the performance of the program in general and that criticism comes back to the guy in charge. So again, I don't see it quite the way many folks here do, but I'm willing to accept that there have been issues within for a few years here.
 
The lack of depth has forced PT for Frank, Marek and Chewy and thankfully took the decision out of Boeheims hands. It has let the 3 develop into solid players that would not have happened otherwise. I like Boeheim, he's a great coach but patience is not his virtue when it comes to developing players that are not "established" so to speak. He will let X make mistakes while Y he yanks out in a millisecond if they make a mistake. Boeheim has his comfort zone and won't change it unless forced...which he has been this year due the injuries and players leaving.

That said, I don't see the kids in practice and if they are making the same mistakes over and over again I understand the lack of patience during the game. There's no doubt in my mind that if you have thin skin and are fighting for playing time...you are probably going to struggle for PT. Once you start looking over your shoulder (playing hesitant) it's over before it began.

Fair take but I don't think I agree entirely. I mean, Frank got a lot of minutes early last year but lost his spot to Gillon due to the mental mistakes we saw (and continue to see this year) and perhaps a physical ailment (I believe they said it was some sort of abdominal injury). He came back this year and we had two other options in Washington (probably not quite ready) and Thorpe (who admittedly was dealing with his ankle injury), but I got the impression JB was committed to giving Frank his opportunity regardless. Believe the same holds true for Chuckwu. Marek benefited from the PT this year and probably wouldn't have gotten that opportunity if we had more depth. Agree on that, but I also don' think it would have been awful for his development to be playing a bit more sparingly if we had a better option at the 4.
 
This current team’s attitude is very impressive. They feel they can get the job done. They don’t panic. They say Boeheim is calm, and so he calms them down. He did say that he only tells them one thing per huddle because that’s all they’ll remember. :)

Ha -- sounds like me coaching my son's soccer team.
 
Fair take but I don't think I agree entirely. I mean, Frank got a lot of minutes early last year but lost his spot to Gillon due to the mental mistakes we saw (and continue to see this year) and perhaps a physical ailment (I believe they said it was some sort of abdominal injury). He came back this year and we had two other options in Washington (probably not quite ready) and Thorpe (who admittedly was dealing with his ankle injury), but I got the impression JB was committed to giving Frank his opportunity regardless. Believe the same holds true for Chuckwu. Marek benefited from the PT this year and probably wouldn't have gotten that opportunity if we had more depth. Agree on that, but I also don' think it would have been awful for his development to be playing a bit more sparingly if we had a better option at the 4.

If Thorpe played lights out at point Frank would have sat IMO. Frank is a solid point but makes a lot of mistakes and if Boeheim had somebody else with quality at point him he'd be on the bench more often than not. Boeheim will ride the hot hand much like Gillion last year as you said. Frank is a player you have to live with what he has and playing 38+ minutes you see both sides of the coin and when his PT is cut short you might see either side for that moment and we all know Boeheim is not a guy that will live with that. Boeheim is committed to Frank out of necessity.
 
Bump. I always enjoy your posts bill and I didn't even see this until this morning. Board was just too busy yesterday so moving this to the top.
How do you bump something? Is anyone allowed to do it?
 
Miscellaneous observations --
As for bench player development -- 6 or so minutes per game might make a little difference. But only a little. Players develop in practice through hours every week, in S&C , and what they do in the off-season.
Frank Howard -- an example of how players get better in the off-season. And whatever people want to say about 3 or 4 turnovers per game, he is one of our best ever defenders at the top of the zone, a warrior, and a leader of an over-achieving team.
Marek Dolezaj -- maybe JB will be loyal, but the biggest question is whether Marek can add 10-12 lbs of muscle in the off-season. And can he improve his 10ft shot? He is the classic skinny, tall freshman who can make a big sophomore leap as he grows into his body. He has good court sense and hustles -- his upside depends entirely on building strength. At a minimum, he is a top reserve, first in behind Bazley and Brissett.
Is this program in good shape for next season? No doubt. Best young core group we have had in a long time, a 7ft 2in rim protector who will benefit from another off-season of development, and a senior Frank Howard.
 
If Thorpe played lights out at point Frank would have sat IMO. Frank is a solid point but makes a lot of mistakes and if Boeheim had somebody else with quality at point him he'd be on the bench more often than not. Boeheim will ride the hot hand much like Gillion last year as you said. Frank is a player you have to live with what he has and playing 38+ minutes you see both sides of the coin and when his PT is cut short you might see either side for that moment and we all know Boeheim is not a guy that will live with that. Boeheim is committed to Frank out of necessity.

Wonder what games you have been watching? Thorpe could not hold a candle to Frank Howard, on either end of the court.
 
If Thorpe played lights out at point Frank would have sat IMO. Frank is a solid point but makes a lot of mistakes and if Boeheim had somebody else with quality at point him he'd be on the bench more often than not. Boeheim will ride the hot hand much like Gillion last year as you said. Frank is a player you have to live with what he has and playing 38+ minutes you see both sides of the coin and when his PT is cut short you might see either side for that moment and we all know Boeheim is not a guy that will live with that. Boeheim is committed to Frank out of necessity.

Yeah, I agree with that. If you get Quade and he's a better PG, Frank's playing time is drastically reduced. Now the question would be whether or not JB thought enough of frank to play him off ball (which he is probably better suited to, to be honest) and then run battle at the 3 and brissett at the 4 for stretches to get his five best players on the floor. That's a possibility.

My only point is that JB, in my mind, has shown a legitimate interest in seeing frank and Chukwu, for that matter, develop. Frank actually logged 10+ mpg in ACC play as a freshman even with seniors in Cooney and G and a good freshman in Richardson and then played at least 15 minutes in each of the first 14 games last year before the wheels came off. It's not like he didn't have any opportunity to prove himself. Chuckwu got at least 10 minutes in each of the first 7 games last year but ultimately went out with the injury. Regardless, I think a healthy Chuckwu gets at least 10-15 mpg last season. Neither of those guys got big-time starter minutes, per se, but that's certainly enough time to prove yourself.
 
The lack of depth has forced PT for Frank, Marek and Chewy and thankfully took the decision out of Boeheims hands. It has let the 3 develop into solid players that would not have happened otherwise. I like Boeheim, he's a great coach but patience is not his virtue when it comes to developing players that are not "established" so to speak. He will let X make mistakes while Y he yanks out in a millisecond if they make a mistake. Boeheim has his comfort zone and won't change it unless forced...which he has been this year due the injuries and players leaving.

That said, I don't see the kids in practice and if they are making the same mistakes over and over again I understand the lack of patience during the game. There's no doubt in my mind that if you have thin skin and are fighting for playing time...you are probably going to struggle for PT. Once you start looking over your shoulder (playing hesitant) it's over before it began.

Interesting points. No way to prove it, but I have a hunch that Chukwu's development would be way behind if Lydon had stayed in school. Sometimes it's good to have fewer options, I agree.
 
Interesting points. No way to prove it, but I have a hunch that Chukwu's development would be way behind if Lydon had stayed in school. Sometimes it's good to have fewer options, I agree.

I don't disagree -- but having better talent is going to limit minutes for some guys. That said, we've seen guys do relatively little for a couple years or three years and emerge as solid contributors later on in their careers.
 
I can see that. I'm not nearly as critical as most but I think there are fair points of criticism with JB and the program in general. It's also logical that there is going to be far more criticism in a down period than in the periods of big success (09-15 or whatever end point you want to use).

I simply mean that if you want to criticize JB for recruiting misses, there is fair criticism. If you want to hold JB ultimately responsible for the sanctions, you can do that fairly and it obviously had a negative impact on the program. There was negative impact from the succession plan and some folks will blame the administration/JB for that. Not sure I agree but it obviously was something of a factor as well. And within the games themselves I don't think it's out of bounds to criticize JB for riding guys 40 minutes or his offensive approach etc.

I do think the criticism often lacks perspective and goes overboard, but I don't think it's unfair to look back at the past four years or so and be pretty disappointed with the performance of the program in general and that criticism comes back to the guy in charge. So again, I don't see it quite the way many folks here do, but I'm willing to accept that there have been issues within for a few years here.
This is a great thread billsin01. Thanks for starting. One thing I have softened my position on is JB's recruiting over the last several years. As the FBI investigation unfolds we are seeing, as many have suspected for years, that the recruiting field is not level. Assuming Syracuse stays clean of any violations during this investigation, it tells us "the rest of the story" on several of these near misses on recruits. Lets face it, even if the playing field was level we would not get all of our target recruits. Also assuming we stay clean, hopefully it will demonstrate to future recruits and their parents that Syracuse is a top level program to play for.
 

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