SWC75
Bored Historian
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 34,005
- Like
- 65,623
We are all excited now because we’ve beaten Dayton and Middle Tennessee has beaten the team we were expected to lose to in the next round Michigan State. One of the problems with someone upsetting the really tough team you expected to face is that now you’ve got to play the team that beat them. One such instance that jumps into my mind was 1979 when Pennsylvania knocked off North Carolina so we didn’t have to face them. But then they beat us. But sometimes it can work out: In 1987, Providence beat Georgetown, who had beaten us three times that season and then we beat Providence for the third time that season in the national semi-finals.
Naturally I decided to see how often another team had knocked off a more highly regarded team before we had to face them and what happened in our game against the same team. There weren’t any formal seedings until 1979. Before that I used national rankings to determine if a possible opponent was supposed to be better than us and if their loss was an upset. .
Actually the first time that happened was a famous won but it was no bargain for us. In 1975 5th ranked Kentucky, (24-4), beat #1 ranked Indiana (31-0) in the finals of the Mideast regional 92-90, avenging a 24 point regular season defeat. Indiana’s Scott May tries to play with a broken arm. Kentucky, no Cinderella team, was way too much for us in the national semi-finals.
In 1979 came the Penn game. They were 22-5, unranked and seeded 9th when they beat #3 ranked and #1 seeded North Carolina (23-5), 72-71 in the round of 32. We were 26-3, ranked #8 and seeded #3when the Quakers, with a very quick backcourt, bolted out to a 37-50 halftime lead. The best we could do was shave it to 76-84 at the end. Penn then beat St. John’s to go to the Final Four where the coach turned into a pumpkin in a 67-101 loss to Magic Johnson’s Michigan State national champions.
In 1980, we were the #1 seed in the Eastern Region. Iowa and NC State were both unranked but the Wolfpack were a 4 seed and the Hawkeyes a #5 seed. Iowa pulled off the mild upset, 77-64 and then beat us 88-77 and Georgetown 81-80 to get to the Final Four where they lost 72-80 to eventual champion Louisville.
In 1984 7th seeded Virginia beat #2 seed Arkansas 53-51 in OT and then beat #3 seed Syracuse 55-63. They then upset #4 seed Indiana (who had upset #1 seeded and ranked North Carolina in Michael Jordan’s final college game), 50-48. They went to the Final Four and lost to Houston 47-49 in OT in the semis.
In 1987 we were a #2 seed and beat #10 seed Western Kentucky 104-86, who had beaten #7 seed West Virginia to get into that game. Then we beat #6 seed Florida 87-81, who had beaten Purdue, the 3rd seed, to get into that game. Then we beat #1 seeded UNC 79-75 to get to the Final Four where we beat Providence, 77-63, who had beaten Southeast #1 seeded Georgetown in that region’s final. Meanwhile, Indiana had beaten #1 ranked and #1 Western seed UNLV in the other semi- final. Unfortunately, we lost to Indiana, 73-74, as you might remember.
In 1988, we were a #3 season and lost to #11 seed Rhode Island, who had between the #6 seed Missouri to get into that game.
In 1989, we were a #2 seed and beat #10 seed Colorado State who had upset #7 seed Florida, (despite Mike Tirico’s prediction that we would to the Rams)
In 1996, we were seeded #4 and beat #12 Drexel , who had beaten #5 Memphis, then beat #8 Georgia who had beaten #1 Purdue. After winning the regional final vs. #2 Kansas, we beat Mississippi State, who had been a #5 seed in the national semis. State had beaten #1 seed Connecticut and then #2 seed Cincinnati in that region.
In 2003 we were a #3 seed and beat #10 Auburn who had beaten #2 seed Wake Forest.
In 2004 #8 seed Alabama beat #1 seed Stanford and then beat #5 seed Syracuse.
In 2011 #11 seed Marquette beat #6 seed Xavier and then #3 seed Syracuse.
In 2013 we were a #4 seed and beat #12 seed California who had beaten #5 seed UNLV. They also beat #3 Marquette who had beaten #2 Miami.
In 2014, #3 seed Syracuse lost to #11 seed Dayton who had beaten #6 seed Ohio State.
Here’s my count:
- We have 10 wins and 9 losses when our opponent has upset someone to get into a game with us.
- When the team they beat was lower seeded than we were and so was the upsetting team, we are 6-4.
- When the team that had been upset was higher seeded than SU and the upseter was also higher seeded, we are 1-2
- When the victim was higher seed than us and upseter lower seeds, (like now), we are 3-3.
So we won one game today, but not two we’ll have to go out and win the other one Sunday by beating the team that beat the team we were worried about.
Naturally I decided to see how often another team had knocked off a more highly regarded team before we had to face them and what happened in our game against the same team. There weren’t any formal seedings until 1979. Before that I used national rankings to determine if a possible opponent was supposed to be better than us and if their loss was an upset. .
Actually the first time that happened was a famous won but it was no bargain for us. In 1975 5th ranked Kentucky, (24-4), beat #1 ranked Indiana (31-0) in the finals of the Mideast regional 92-90, avenging a 24 point regular season defeat. Indiana’s Scott May tries to play with a broken arm. Kentucky, no Cinderella team, was way too much for us in the national semi-finals.
In 1979 came the Penn game. They were 22-5, unranked and seeded 9th when they beat #3 ranked and #1 seeded North Carolina (23-5), 72-71 in the round of 32. We were 26-3, ranked #8 and seeded #3when the Quakers, with a very quick backcourt, bolted out to a 37-50 halftime lead. The best we could do was shave it to 76-84 at the end. Penn then beat St. John’s to go to the Final Four where the coach turned into a pumpkin in a 67-101 loss to Magic Johnson’s Michigan State national champions.
In 1980, we were the #1 seed in the Eastern Region. Iowa and NC State were both unranked but the Wolfpack were a 4 seed and the Hawkeyes a #5 seed. Iowa pulled off the mild upset, 77-64 and then beat us 88-77 and Georgetown 81-80 to get to the Final Four where they lost 72-80 to eventual champion Louisville.
In 1984 7th seeded Virginia beat #2 seed Arkansas 53-51 in OT and then beat #3 seed Syracuse 55-63. They then upset #4 seed Indiana (who had upset #1 seeded and ranked North Carolina in Michael Jordan’s final college game), 50-48. They went to the Final Four and lost to Houston 47-49 in OT in the semis.
In 1987 we were a #2 seed and beat #10 seed Western Kentucky 104-86, who had beaten #7 seed West Virginia to get into that game. Then we beat #6 seed Florida 87-81, who had beaten Purdue, the 3rd seed, to get into that game. Then we beat #1 seeded UNC 79-75 to get to the Final Four where we beat Providence, 77-63, who had beaten Southeast #1 seeded Georgetown in that region’s final. Meanwhile, Indiana had beaten #1 ranked and #1 Western seed UNLV in the other semi- final. Unfortunately, we lost to Indiana, 73-74, as you might remember.
In 1988, we were a #3 season and lost to #11 seed Rhode Island, who had between the #6 seed Missouri to get into that game.
In 1989, we were a #2 seed and beat #10 seed Colorado State who had upset #7 seed Florida, (despite Mike Tirico’s prediction that we would to the Rams)
In 1996, we were seeded #4 and beat #12 Drexel , who had beaten #5 Memphis, then beat #8 Georgia who had beaten #1 Purdue. After winning the regional final vs. #2 Kansas, we beat Mississippi State, who had been a #5 seed in the national semis. State had beaten #1 seed Connecticut and then #2 seed Cincinnati in that region.
In 2003 we were a #3 seed and beat #10 Auburn who had beaten #2 seed Wake Forest.
In 2004 #8 seed Alabama beat #1 seed Stanford and then beat #5 seed Syracuse.
In 2011 #11 seed Marquette beat #6 seed Xavier and then #3 seed Syracuse.
In 2013 we were a #4 seed and beat #12 seed California who had beaten #5 seed UNLV. They also beat #3 Marquette who had beaten #2 Miami.
In 2014, #3 seed Syracuse lost to #11 seed Dayton who had beaten #6 seed Ohio State.
Here’s my count:
- We have 10 wins and 9 losses when our opponent has upset someone to get into a game with us.
- When the team they beat was lower seeded than we were and so was the upsetting team, we are 6-4.
- When the team that had been upset was higher seeded than SU and the upseter was also higher seeded, we are 1-2
- When the victim was higher seed than us and upseter lower seeds, (like now), we are 3-3.
So we won one game today, but not two we’ll have to go out and win the other one Sunday by beating the team that beat the team we were worried about.
