Surprising stat about MCW's recent play

[IthacaMatt]

I thought for sure when I checked a few minutes ago that we would have seen a disproportionate number of shots from Mike in the last 3 games compared to the first 9 of the season, with his 3-17 effort at Temple still fresh in mind.

Surprisingly, though, he has 2 of his lowest 3 shot attempt games in the ones against Alcorn State and Detroit, with only 3 and 6 shots taken.

I'm not quite sure what's wrong with the offense right now, but it won't be as simple to fix as saying "Mike, don't force so many shots."

 

[orangefog]

It seems more like "Mike, don't force too many passes." He doesn't seem to be spotting the open guys. And when he does, either they aren't quite as open or they are missing their shots. Southerland will have a hot game again soon and Cooney will become a bit more consistent. But MCW seems to drive and then try to pass to the bigs in traffic where there is no room. Maybe he is driving too deep? Earlier in the year it seemed that he was drawing the defense to just inside the free throw line and then lobbing it up to Roc or dishing it out to a three point shooter. I am no expert and I have not dissected the games, but that is just something that struck me.

 

[omniorange]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[CorduroyG]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

I hadn't noticed that until after the temple game when it was mentioned here. I specifically watched for that in the alcorn st game and I was amazed, he doesn't even think about passing the ball. He could have 5 defenders swarming him and he'll find a way to put up a shot.

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[orangefog]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

It would appear that guys are trying to find their roles still. It seems that CJ has been trying to put the team on his back at certain points. I think the guys need to watch some of the games from earlier in the year (not SDST). Hopefully they would see what they were doing well. MCW drive to a spot that draws the defense and gives him options. The rest of the guys move to open spots. Three point shooters spot up. Big guys, if your man leaves you to help, go to the basket. Probably an oversimplification, but sometimes simplicity works.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

Everyone is saying this, but I just don't see it. C.J. is taking pretty much the same shots he always has. I'll look for it tonight.

But on the season, Triche, Southerland and even Carter-Williams all have more FG attempts than Fair.

 

[RF2044]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

I've seen posters comment about it, but the observation seems overblown and really focuses on just a symptom of a bigger problem, IMO. Currently, our offense consists of either MCW creating off the bounce, or the half court offensive sets showing a complete lack of purposeful execution--and the players resorting to too much 1-on-1 play in an attempt to make something happen.

CJ isn't the only one--MCW, Triche, Coleman, and others show the same black hole tendency at times.

 

[SmilinBob]

To me a big part of this are the big guys being vacant. MCW is going too deep to the hoop and trapping himself and forcing poor passes. Triche seems to be in another world and his free throw shooting may proof of this. I believe teams have figured out how to stop our offense and if we're not getting turnovers and rebounds this team will struggle to win against a lot of teams in the Big East. The guards have to rebound instead of cheating out.

Coleman...the faster he moves to the hoop the harder the puts the ball to the hoop, he has to adjust quick then soft. MCW just looks slow to me, too much dribble and not enough movement.

The team will be fine but they just look like they haven't played together before and just looked lethargic.

 

[orange2win]

It seems more like "Mike, don't force too many passes." He doesn't seem to be spotting the open guys. And when he does, either they aren't quite as open or they are missing their shots. Southerland will have a hot game again soon and Cooney will become a bit more consistent. But MCW seems to drive and then try to pass to the bigs in traffic where there is no room. Maybe he is driving too deep? Earlier in the year it seemed that he was drawing the defense to just inside the free throw line and then lobbing it up to Roc or dishing it out to a three point shooter. I am no expert and I have not dissected the games, but that is just something that struck me.

Now he's the #1 assist man in the nation, every team we meet is protecting against the pass when he touches the ball. This gives more openings for MCW to be the scorer.

 

[Jake]

He is a black hole. Some nights we'll need him to be one, but there will be at least one game where it'll drive us nuts.

 

[realorange]

He is a black hole. Some nights we'll need him to be one, but there will be at least one game where it'll drive us nuts.

If that black hole results in baskets 50% of the time I'm all for it.

 

[orangejunkie]

Fair take shots that are well within his range. I don't see that as selfish. It's not like he is jacking up shots indiscriminately. You rarely see a forced shot from Fair. He only averages 13 points a game. If the coaches don't want him taking those shots, they'd be subbing him out. His shots all appear to be in the flow of the offense. When/if teams start to double on him, then he can be criticized for not passing. It is a luxury to have a forward that can create his own shots. Don't know his field goal percentage but I think it has to be better than say Joseph last year. Joseph at times really forced shots with his drives to the basket.

 

[pfister1]

CJ is shooting .496% from the field and 46% from 3 point range according to SUA and he is just fourth on the team in shots attempted. Sounds pretty good to me.

In the last couple of games we've had a real problem generating good offense, so it wouldn't surprise me to see his shot attempts rise, but he has been 50% or better over the last three games.

Not sure I see the problem.

 

[pearl31]

Fair take shots that are well within his range. I don't see that as selfish. It's not like he is jacking up shots indiscriminately. You rarely see a forced shot from Fair. He only averages 13 points a game. If the coaches don't want him taking those shots, they'd be subbing him out. His shots all appear to be in the flow of the offense. When/if teams start to double on him, then he can be criticized for not passing. It is a luxury to have a forward that can create his own shots. Don't know his field goal percentage but I think it has to be better than say Joseph last year. Joseph at times really forced shots with his drives to the basket.

and he almost always will kick it back out or reset if nothing is there for him.

 

[pearl31]

CJ is shooting .496% from the field and 46% from 3 point range according to SUA and he is just fourth on the team in shots attempted. Sounds pretty good to me. Not sure I see the problem.

alot of things on here of late make little sense to me, but this recent criticism of CJ is probably the most perplexing

 

[realorange]

Jeez, JB said that CJ is playing at a high level. But why should we think he knows more than some of our posters?!

 

[pfister1]

On the CJ is a black hole front, why is it that nobody calls out Cooney as a "black hole"?

He has played 200 minutes to CJ's 375 and attempted 74 field goals to CJ's 123. If you projected Cooney's shot attempts for CJ's minutes he would have 139 field goal attempts. The difference being that Cooney is shooting .338 from the field and .296 from 3 pt. to CJ's .496 and .462.

I am actually beginning to think that a big problem for us this season is Cooney's inability to be consistently effective. It will make it hard for JB to give him real minutes in Big East games and will wear MCW and BT down over the course of the season. Hopefully he will start to pick up his shooting a bit because so far he has been terrible and I don't think we can afford to lose offense at guard given that are center position looks even less likely to provide much offense once we get to Big East play.

 

[IthacaMatt]

and he almost always will kick it back out or reset if nothing is there for him.

Yes, I was watching for this last night, and that's the same thing I saw too. CJ passed the ball a lot, probably half his touches.

 

[reedny]

Interesting thread, Matt. No doubt Temple exposed SU's offensive faults: 1) over-reliance on (contested) perimeter jumpers; 2) too much 1 on 1 by MCW/BT without proper ball and player movement; 3) almost no offensive production from the bigs; and 4) poor defensive rebounding allowing repeated second chance baskets.

2) was especially taken advantage of. Temple called MCW's bluff by staying with shooters. That closed the passing lanes and forced him to try to finish at the rim.

At this point in the season, this strategy was effective. MCW had a bad game, and our bigs couldn't match the intensity level of their smaller, quicker players. Our helpside rotations were poor on Wyatt. We gave up huge numbers to Temple on the offensive glass.

This was all predictable. JB's been telling us for weeks that our bigs are not there. We don't need to run our offense through Rak or DC2 (ala AO), but we do, at the very least, need to be able to work the inside on occasion to keep defenses off our shooters. Running the high low, feeding the low block, etc. Sooner or later, low post offense has to be part of our repertoire or we'll be no better than a good mid-major ... lots of shooters, a couple of drivers and no productive bigs.

Fortunately, although it's going to be hit and miss for a while with our inside guys, I think the Temple strategy will eventually fail.

1- MCW is going to figure out that he has to have better body control when he drives b/c some teams are not going to come off shooters and give him easy passing lanes;
2- MCW's jumpt shot will get more consistent, and his shot selection will improve, with more PT;
3- Our bigs will slowly become a part of the offense. Rak has a jumper (new this year), and he has a baby hook. DC2 is going to get tired of getting hacked and blocked and start throwing the ball down and walking through defenders.

We're going to have to do this the hard way, and get it shoved down our throats a few times before this team is going to be ready to start dishing out some punishment against elite level teams.

 

[armory]

Is anyone besides me more worried about CJ's seemingly unwillingness to pass than MCW's actual passing?

Cheers,
Neil

I'm more worried about the general unwillingness of the entire team to pass to anyone in post even when our big guys have 5 inches and 50 lbs on their defenders

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm more worried about the general unwillingness of the entire team to pass to anyone in post even when our big guys have 5 inches and 50 lbs on their defenders

So far, the only one who converts with any regularity when they pass it to him is Keita. How's that for a surprise?

 

[Knicks411]

Well, for whatever its worth, CJ has 6 assists the entire season. It's not like he's shooting a ton though. But he's definitely not gifted at setting up teammates.

Not a new thing either; now that I look it up, for his career he averages one assist roughly every 37 minutes.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well, for whatever its worth, CJ has 6 assists the entire season. It's not like he's shooting a ton though. But he's definitely not gifted at setting up teammates.

Not a new thing either; now that I look it up, for his career he averages one assist roughly every 37 minutes.

Not having assists is not quite the same thing as not passing at all - if he has an opportunity, he takes it, but if he doesn't I seldom have seen him fail to reverse the ball back to the guard to look for another opportunity. To me, it's when a guy WON'T pass it back that qualifies him as a black hole.

 

[Gabjon]

Not having assists is not quite the same thing as not passing at all - if he has an opportunity, he takes it, but if he doesn't I seldom have seen him fail to reverse the ball back to the guard to look for another opportunity. To me, it's when a guy WON'T pass it back that qualifies him as a black hole.

Agreed for the most part I has seen him force a shot or two but I don't mind that at all. He is the only guy who can score 15ft in and we need that plus CJ putting it up on the glass allows Rak, Baye or DC2 to hit the offensive glass for easy buckets. I want CJ to shoot shoot shoot when he is 15ft or in.

 

[AluminNV]

I think there might be too much pressure on MCW and the book is open on if he can thrive in high pressure spots and Southerland is also hit or miss in pressure situations to help him out and therefore we need CJ to shoot alot. That Temple game everyone fell apart and MCW was not wrong to try and take over and carry the team. CJ and Southerland were off and MCW did what he had to. And if he hit his FTs everyone would be seeing that he projects as good at the 2 in the NBA as the 1 and is the man. But he didn't I worry about MCW shooting pressure FTs and if he blows a game missing them if he can play his best the next night.

But MCW has brought it plenty of nights so far looking like the best player in the country a few nights of whooping big east ass might give him the confidence he needs to ice his FTs in clutch tournament spots.

No worries about him from 3 he'll hit his share from outside and the streaks don't bother me its FTs since he's our primary ball handler and with his althelticism can get himself FTs whenever he wants but hes gotta make them.