SU's low RPI...

[A Clockwork Orange]

For the bracketologists on the board. Why is SU's RPI so low in comparison to pretty much every other bubble team? That's the one thing that scares me a lot about SU's chances. RPI is SO low comparatively.

It's interesting though, because the RPI is low, yet KenPom, Sagarin and BPI are all much higher, and much more in line with one another.

It seems like RPI for SU is a major outlier. What is the reason for that? Is it because of the bad losses to St. Johns, Clemson, and Georgetown?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[CaptainJ]

For the bracketologists on the board. Why is SU's RPI so low in comparison to pretty much every other bubble team? That's the one thing that scares me a lot about SU's chances. RPI is SO low comparatively.

It's interesting though, because the RPI is low, yet KenPom, Sagarin and BPI are all much higher, and much more in line with one another.

It seems like RPI for SU is a major outlier. What is the reason for that? Is it because of the bad losses to St. Johns, Clemson, and Georgetown?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

I'm wondering the same thing. I think we've got a chance for a bump tomorrow with 2 teams we've beaten playing for titles, but like you I'm curious why every other metric has us doing much better. Either way, I'm glad if I understand correctly that the committee looks at all of them, among many other things.

Is it that the rpi formula, while once the standard, has encountered other formulas that are more indicative of the strength of teams? Curious what others think.

 

[Shark58]

BC X2

 

[CaptainJ]

BC X2

How does BC compare to some of the cupcakes Cuse used to play in December before they left home? It's hard to think playing BC twice could derail a team that much and possibly prevent a tournament bid.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Also wondering. Good OP. Gotta think it has something to do with BC and St. John's/Georgetown.

 

[jdubs30]

For a quick answer: Yes, BC x2 in conference and losing to St. John's was tough. Also RPI values a road win something like twice as much as it values home wins (I think it's 0.6 for a home win and 1.4 for a road win) -- we weren't good on the road this year. We beat Wake, Duke and BC on the road (I think that's it), only Duke was an RPI help. Teams like NC State, VaTech, GaTech, and ND were only home wins, so it didn't help our RPI nearly as much.

The reason why you see teams like Monmouth and St. Mary's with such high RPI is essentially because they beat (and play) a lot of bad teams on the road.

The RPI basically compounds on itself and if you keep winning, especially on the road, you will have a really good RPI.

 

[jdubs30]

It's something like -- beating the 30th team at home is equal to beating the 60th team on a neutral court is equal to beating the 70th team on the road. I don't know if that's the exact number but you get the gist of it.

SU's other metrics rank out favorably compared to those other flukey teams (high RPI, low SOS).

If the committee doesn't go solely by RPI we will be in good shape

 

[jdubs30]

How does BC compare to some of the cupcakes Cuse used to play in December before they left home? It's hard to think playing BC twice could derail a team that much and possibly prevent a tournament bid.

Playing BC twice compared to playing a team like UNC twice is rough, RPI-wise.

You're right, BC is a cupcake. And the fact that BC didn't beat anyone else all year also made it worse. Texas Southern beat other teams and they had road wins, which raised their RPI.

The main reason our RPI is so low is because 2 of our 3 ACC road wins came against the worst 2 teams in the conference -- and we had no other road wins besides those 3.

We were in the bad spot this year that every good ACC team was on the road if it wasn't a home and home (we played Ville, UNC, Duke, Miami, Pitt, and UVA all on the road) and while playing them on road helped our RPI -- our RPI would be higher if we played and beat GaTech, VaTech and FSU on the road (my point is, they don't hav eto be studs to help us, we just needed road wins vs. solid teams)

 

[Briancuse]

Playing BC twice compared to playing a team like UNC twice is rough, RPI-wise.

You're right, BC is a cupcake. And the fact that BC didn't beat anyone else all year also made it worse. Texas Southern beat other teams and they had road wins, which raised their RPI.

The main reason our RPI is so low is because 2 of our 3 ACC road wins came against the worst 2 teams in the conference -- and we had no other road wins besides those 3.

We were in the bad spot this year that every good ACC team was on the road if it wasn't a home and home (we played Ville, UNC, Duke, Miami, Pitt, and UVA all on the road) and while playing them on road helped our RPI -- our RPI would be higher if we played and beat GaTech, VaTech and FSU on the road (my point is, they don't hav eto be studs to help us, we just needed road wins vs. solid teams)

But that could play in our favor, and see all the top acc teams we had to play on the road.

 

[CaptainJ]

Back to my BE vs ACC discussion: Did we never face a bad team in the BE twice? Orange Sleuth showed a list of the last 10 seasons' SOSs, and they went from being in the single digits/top 20 the last 2 or 3 years in the BE to down the toilet since we've joined the ACC. I didn't expect that, especially being it seemed like we scheduled less early season, upstate NY cupcakes than in the past. I wish I recalled what thread he posted it in today.

So has joining the ACC hurt our rpi as well as SOS?

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Back to my BE vs ACC discussion: Did we never face a bad team in the BE twice? Orange Sleuth showed a list of the last 10 seasons' SOSs, and they went from being in the single digits/top 20 the last 2 or 3 years in the BE to down the toilet since we've joined the ACC. I didn't expect that, especially being it seemed like we scheduled less early season, upstate NY cupcakes than in the past. I wish I recalled what thread he posted it in today.

So has joining the ACC hurt our rpi as well as SOS?

BC set a new standard of low for a P5 conference team.

 

[netman99]

For the bracketologists on the board. Why is SU's RPI so low in comparison to pretty much every other bubble team? That's the one thing that scares me a lot about SU's chances. RPI is SO low comparatively.

It's interesting though, because the RPI is low, yet KenPom, Sagarin and BPI are all much higher, and much more in line with one another.

It seems like RPI for SU is a major outlier. What is the reason for that? Is it because of the bad losses to St. Johns, Clemson, and Georgetown?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Playing teams like BC or St Johns do not help you like playing the directional schools. The RPI is flawed, that is why it is not a high priority with the NCAA. When you play a directional school it helps your RPI because you get credit for their winning percentage. Because they play in a poor conf, their record percentage can be high. That of course helps your RPI. BC winning percentage is obviously very poor. That hurts RPI.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Playing teams like BC or St Johns do not help you like playing the directional schools. The RPI is flawed, that is why it is not a high priority with the NCAA. When you play a directional school it helps your RPI because you get credit for their winning percentage. Because they play in a poor conf, their record percentage can be high. That of course helps your RPI. BC winning percentage is obviously very poor. That hurts RPI.

The key to the RPI is to play mid majors projected to be decent but not a real threat to beat you. Those that you expect to end up in the 100-200 range, while avoiding as many +250 teams as possible.

 

[CuseCPT]

BC set a new standard of low for a P5 conference team.

Somebody was telling me that Rutgers was historically bad this year in terms of stats and metrics.

 

[andyw715]

According to rpiwizard.com

RPI drops only 3, 72 to 69 if you drop the BC games.

Removing Hop's games (both W and L) gets us in the high 20's. Last I checked.

 

[NineOneSeven]

What you have to remember is you can control OOC play, but not in conference. We happen to play BC twice. They happen to be one of the worst teams EVER. We also played UNC twice.

 

[rrlbees]

What you have to remember is you can control OOC play, but not in conference. We happen to play BC twice. They happen to be one of the worst teams EVER. We also played UNC twice.

The problem with RPI and why I think the committee doesn't use it anymore is that you have no control over 25% of the equation. Can't control who your opponents play. I'd bet that is a factor in our seemingly low RPI compared to others. Maybe a lot of teams on our schedule played crappy teams on their schedule.