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Message: [QUOTE="NDIrish, post: 2777286, member: 7037"] wow, pretty creative, you come up with that yourself? seriously... So to kind of break it down, because maybe im not your typical notre dame fan. I dont get caught up in the nostalgia of notre dame, i look at the present. They had a great history and are trying to build a great present. Bad things have happened here, like many universities. They shouldn't, but they do. there have been highs and lowes. Im surprised you didn't bring up the independent thing? The whole catholic thing, doesn't really matter when it comes to football. -Rudy, to me is a movie, nothing more. The actually story has been repeated by numerous kids over the years. But in the end, its a movie. The person, not so good of a person. But hey, plenty of movies have been made about people who turned out to be no so good. -The Gipper/zipper reference, im gonna kinda pass on that one, getting into conversations that i don't really wanna go down. -Weiss was a bad hire, left ND in disarray, was paid too much and did too little. Brian Kelly is a pretty darn good coach. The 20+ wins that were taken away from him was complete crap. -And i really really don't want to start a discussion into declan sullivan (i think its better to his name if you are going to refer to his death), but if i have to, i will. Kelly didn't kill Declan, his parents don't blame Kelly, so how can anyone else? And don't give me $$$. As a father, there is no sum of money that could make me support someone if i thought they were responsible for the death of my son. They have supported Kelly, came to games, sent kids after to the university, have actually come out and told people not to blame kelly, etc. So until they do, i don't feel its right that anyone else can. It was a terrible accident, but when it comes down to being liable, the university was responsible, not the football coach, going back to something i mentioned earlier, this isn't like an Ohio State, Alabama, etc., Kelly is not king on campus. His power is limited to coaching the team. Yes he wanted practices filmed, but he didn't purchase that particular lift, service it, inspect it. He didnt sign his pay checks, set his salary, have responsibility in going over safety protocol with him. If kelly was not trained himself on the lift, he would not know the limits of it. He ran a practice, one that was expected to be filmed. If someone came to him and said hey its to windy to film and he came back and i dont care get someone up there, then its a different story, but thats not the case. It was a terrible accident, one that could have been prevented, but the university is responsible for not having proper safety measures/training in place. Kelly didn't order him up there, didn't threaten him, anything. I could see starting with the athletic director, who was on site, and then work up from there. A - these kids should have been trained to not go up under any circumstances during bad weather (please note, im not saying he should have known better - training is differnet from common sense). B - some sort of safety coordinator should have been responsible for all events going on around campus to make sure things like this don't happen. Either way, my main point comes back to the parents. They are the ones who have the right to blame, the right to point fingers, etc. I apologize for the derailment, and i don't want to turn this into a 5 page argument, but this is something that greatly disturbs me. You are basically calling kelly a murderer and using the death of a kid to argue points. i dont know kelly personally, i have talked with several people who do. I don't believe him to be a monster, or a terrible human being. He was very overwelmed early in his career at notre dame, made mistakes on the field and learned from it. i think he is around a number 8 coach in the country. He doesn't let kids get away with stuff, holds them accountable both on and off the field. Numerous kids of missed playing time for things that may have slid at other universities. ill say again, i dont know if he is capable of winning a NC. But right now, there are only a few that are. he gets handcuffed by ND sometimes. [/QUOTE]

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