Syracuse undrafted FA signings

[orange79]

Eric Crume - Jacksonville Jaguars

Sean Hickey - New Orleans Saints

Durrell Eskridge - New York Jets

Dyshawn Davis - Washington Redskins

Cameron Lynch - St. Louis Rams

Markus Pierce-Brewster - New Orleans Saints

Davon Walls - New York Jets

SIAP

 

[kirbivore]

remember these names when five years from now the fans of St. Doug will claim that all of the above made the NFL. If any of them make a 53 man roster, feel free to add to your agenda scorecards.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Paul Schwedelson ‏@pschweds 6m6 minutes ago
Former Syracuse DB Darius Kelly will report to Bills Rookie Minicamp on Friday, per @CallDT

 

[GoSU96]

remember these names when five years from now the fans of St. Doug will claim that all of the above made the NFL. If any of them make a 53 man roster, feel free to add to your agenda scorecards.

You think Reddish, Lynch, Davis, Crume, Hickey, and Eskridge are indictments of Marrone's recruiting?

 

[TheCusian]

You think Reddish, Lynch, Davis, Crume, Hickey, and Eskridge are indictments of Marrone's recruiting?

I don't see how it can't be. Don't you?

 

[Scooch]

I wasn't sure whether to open up this can o' worms here, but since someone already did...

This is the first draft since 2008 where we didn't have a single player taken. Not one in 256 selections.

I know that being drafted into the NFL is not a perfect measure of the talent level of a collegiate program, but it's not the worst measure either. I don't think it's controversial to acknowledge that we continue to have serious talent issues in this program, and that the recruiting conducted by our previous staff didn't exactly generate a ton of NFL draftees.

 

[TheCusian]

I wasn't sure whether to open up this can o' worms here, but since someone already did... This is the first draft since 2008 where we didn't have a single player taken. Not one in 256 selections. I know that being drafted into the NFL is not a perfect measure of the talent level of a collegiate program, but it's not the worst measure either. I don't think it's controversial to acknowledge that we continue to have serious talent issues in this program, and that the recruiting conducted by our previous staff didn't exactly generate a ton of NFL draftees.

Agreed. And the fact that our defense was ranked in the top 30 is pretty impressive for our coaches. They deserve more respect nationally for last season...

 

[Chip]

I wasn't sure whether to open up this can o' worms here, but since someone already did...

This is the first draft since 2008 where we didn't have a single player taken. Not one in 256 selections.

I know that being drafted into the NFL is not a perfect measure of the talent level of a collegiate program, but it's not the worst measure either. I don't think it's controversial to acknowledge that we continue to have serious talent issues in this program, and that the recruiting conducted by our previous staff didn't exactly generate a ton of NFL draftees.

And we all know how well things were going circa 2008...

But all is not wrong with the world, the Bills were just ranked by Kiper to have the worst draft in all the NFL.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And we all know how well things were going circa 2008...

But all is not wrong with the world, the Bills were just ranked by Kiper to have the worst draft in all the NFL.

Man, they really miss Marrone.

 

[tep624]

I don't see how it can't be. Don't you?

They are not an indictment of his ability to recruit - they were all solid college players and Hickey, Eskridge and Lynch all made 3rd team all ACC at one point in their careers.

Lynch and Reddish really should have been able to redshirt their Frosh years, and they had to play due to the lack of quality talent/depth on the team. Do they get drafted if they get another year? Who knows but I'd be willing to be they'd have a better shot if they had. Same with Eskridge on forgoing his final year. Lynch's height was always going to be a limiting factor as far as an NFL career is concerned.

Not really sure what ragging on guys that were pretty good players for the program accomplishes. None of the guys on that list were 4 star can't miss prospects coming out of high school. Reddish was the only one that was heavily recruited and a consensus 3 star.

Two things stand out to me about Marrone's recruiting - first, he wasn't very good at landing elite talent, and that's pretty obvious looking at any of his recruiting classes. Second - he improved the quality of depth on the roster top to bottom and anyone who can't see that is blinded by their man-hate for the guy.

 

[RF2044]

I don't see how it can't be. Don't you?

Cusian, I think you are a great poster, and it seems like 99% of the time I'm on the same page with your perspectives. But I don't agree about this one. Lynch, Hickey, etc. were all highly productive college players. The barometer for acceptable performance shouldn't be "high NFL draft pick" -- at least not for our program. Marvin Graves didn't make it in the NFL--was he a worthwhile recruit? I know, I know--if we have more NFL prospects, the onfield performance would be better on paper. Well, hopefully that's coming. Success on the field generally begats improved success on the recruiting trail. But that doesn't mean that players are indicative of "poor" recruiting simply because they don't make the NFL. We've had PLENTY of absolutely TREMENDOUS players go through this program who lacked a measureable that precluded them from having an NFL career. It doesn't mean that those players stunk, or that they were bad recruits to bring in.

 

[Scooch]

They are not an indictment of his ability to recruit - they were all solid college players and Hickey, Eskridge and Lynch all made 3rd team all ACC at one point in their careers.

Lynch and Reddish really should have been able to redshirt their Frosh years, and they had to play due to the lack of quality talent/depth on the team. Do they get drafted if they get another year? Who knows but I'd be willing to be they'd have a better shot if they had. Same with Eskridge on forgoing his final year. Lynch's height was always going to be a limiting factor as far as an NFL career is concerned.

Not really sure what ragging on guys that were pretty good players for the program accomplishes. None of the guys on that list were 4 star can't miss prospects coming out of high school. Reddish was the only one that was heavily recruited and a consensus 3 star.

Two things stand out to me about Marrone's recruiting - first, he wasn't very good at landing elite talent, and that's pretty obvious looking at any of his recruiting classes. Second - he improved the quality of depth on the roster top to bottom and anyone who can't see that is blinded by their man-hate for the guy.

I mean, that's all well and good, but. again, we just had our first year without a single player being drafted since 2008.

The guys who were draft eligible this year were recruited right in the heart of Marrone's tenure. We had already returned to a bowl game when most of these kids verbaled, right? So the usual arguments about how much Marrone did to bring us back from the depths of the Grob era, while legitimate, are somewhat less compelling I think.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Well if you look at it from the opposite side, does it say more about the ability of Marrone/Shafer/Hackett that they were able to win games without a lot of NFL talent? If Syracuse can meld that preparation/game planning/teaching to go along with a better caliber of athlete that would give us all a lot more optimism.

 

[tep624]

I mean, that's all well and good, but. again, we just had our first year without a single player being drafted since 2008.

The guys who were draft eligible this year were recruited right in the heart of Marrone's tenure. We had already returned to a bowl game when most of these kids verbaled, right? So the usual arguments about how much Marrone did to bring us back from the depths of the Grob era, while legitimate, are somewhat less compelling I think.

It's undeniable that 10-37 (or 6-37 if you count GROB's lost wins lol) to 25-25 with two bowl wins is significant improvement. But 25-25 is still, by any measure, average. There were some peaks and valleys during his tenure, but on the whole, the program was average and I don't think that's a slight against Marrone. That's what he accomplished.

I think when all is said and done, over the 4 GROB years vs the 4 Marrone years, GROB will have had about twice as many players that he recruited drafted. And that lines up with the argument that's been made often here - GROB was better at recruiting elite talent but not at recruiting quality depth or running a program, and Marrone was better at recruiting quality depth and running a program but was weak at recruiting elite talent. And his ability to recruit quality depth and run a program are the reason why he was 25-25.

 

[Scooch]

It's undeniable that 10-37 (or 6-37 if you count GROB's lost wins lol) to 25-25 with two bowl wins is significant improvement. But 25-25 is still, by any measure, average. There were some peaks and valleys during his tenure, but on the whole, the program was average and I don't think that's a slight against Marrone. That's what he accomplished.

I think when all is said and done, over the 4 GROB years vs the 4 Marrone years, GROB will have had about twice as many players that he recruited drafted. And that lines up with the argument that's been made often here - GROB was better at recruiting elite talent but not at recruiting quality depth or running a program, and Marrone was better at recruiting quality depth and running a program but was weak at recruiting elite talent. And his ability to recruit quality depth and run a program are the reason why he was 25-25.

I agree with that. Also always worth noting that 5 of those 25 wins were against FCS teams. The two previous coaches got one win each against FCS schools because we basically never scheduled them prior to 2008. That helped get him to average.

 

[TheCusian]

They are not an indictment of his ability to recruit - they were all solid college players and Hickey, Eskridge and Lynch all made 3rd team all ACC at one point in their careers. Lynch and Reddish really should have been able to redshirt their Frosh years, and they had to play due to the lack of quality talent/depth on the team. Do they get drafted if they get another year? Who knows but I'd be willing to be they'd have a better shot if they had. Same with Eskridge on forgoing his final year. Lynch's height was always going to be a limiting factor as far as an NFL career is concerned. Not really sure what ragging on guys that were pretty good players for the program accomplishes. None of the guys on that list were 4 star can't miss prospects coming out of high school. Reddish was the only one that was heavily recruited and a consensus 3 star. Two things stand out to me about Marrone's recruiting - first, he wasn't very good at landing elite talent, and that's pretty obvious looking at any of his recruiting classes. Second - he improved the quality of depth on the roster top to bottom and anyone who can't see that is blinded by their man-hate for the guy.

Look - I love those guys. I'm not saying they were scrubs. They got better here and played really well. But saying we are missing elite talent is not a question. It's a fact.

Solid college players who improve while they are here and give their all for their coaches are exactly what we need as a foundation. I just think this draft (and next possibly) are missing a truly great player or two. I hope I'm wrong and some guys step up and become top 3 round talent.

Marrone did a lot of good things for us. I'm not a hater. But his weakness was recruiting (which also lines up with the thought that he didn't like it).

 

[TheCusian]

Cusian, I think you are a great poster, and it seems like 99% of the time I'm on the same page with your perspectives. But I don't agree about this one. Lynch, Hickey, etc. were all highly productive college players. The barometer for acceptable performance shouldn't be "high NFL draft pick" -- at least not for our program. Marvin Graves didn't make it in the NFL--was he a worthwhile recruit? I know, I know--if we have more NFL prospects, the onfield performance would be better on paper. Well, hopefully that's coming. Success on the field generally begats improved success on the recruiting trail. But that doesn't mean that players are indicative of "poor" recruiting simply because they don't make the NFL. We've had PLENTY of absolutely TREMENDOUS players go through this program who lacked a measureable that precluded them from having an NFL career. It doesn't mean that those players stunk, or that they were bad recruits to bring in.

Lots of good points there. I guess some of it is being bummed by the draft... But we are missing NFL talent. That's not in doubt.

Hopefully RW44 can convince his friends to hop on board to amplify what have been two pretty good SS recruiting classes.

 

[timkay99]

I tend to think poor NFL draft showings (for power conference teams) are indictments of the current season for that collegiate team.

If you are a bad team, scouts don't want to see you and will try and avoid catching your team (also b/c seeing good players against bad teams doesn't tell you much).

As someone who is in the evaluation business, there is nothing worse then seeing a pitcher face a winless HS team or watching a hitter face low caliber pitching he won't see again.

Fact of the matter is that both Eskridge and Hickey had mid rounds potential. Both weren't able to offset their issues (size and tackling for Esk, medical for Hickey) to get drafted.

One thing to remember is that scouts are human. You play well in front of them (not on video) and they will overlook a lot of things. I guarantee if Esk had 15 tackles against Florida State instead of 8, he would have been drafted.

 

[anomander]

Well if you look at it from the opposite side, does it say more about the ability of Marrone/Shafer/Hackett that they were able to win games without a lot of NFL talent? If Syracuse can meld that preparation/game planning/teaching to go along with a better caliber of athlete that would give us all a lot more optimism.

That's my take. He must have been a damn good coach to win with no talent.

 

[Full_Rebar]

That's my take. He must have been a damn good coach to win with no talent.

I think he was, and I'm not going to revive all the arguments for and against him in this thread. However, I hope the next AD is someone who can truly recognize the strengths/weaknesses of the major coaches and work with them to get the best results. To me, Gross' lack of oversight, or even hands-on management in certain instances, limited the success in a number of sports.

 

[Moontan]

That's my take. He must have been a damn good coach to win with no talent.

So, we're overlooking the first round draft picks, an NFL backup QB and several other draft picks and players who have made NFL practice squads? If that's "with no talent" then I'm good with that.

 

[Trueblue25]

I love Cam Lynch and pray for his success in the NFL.

But god I hope he comes and coaches at Syracuse. What a player, hard worker, student and athlete.

 

[raf4488]

New Orleans desperately needs help/depth on the OL so Hickey might have a decent chance of making that roster

 

[tep624]

I tend to think poor NFL draft showings (for power conference teams) are indictments of the current season for that collegiate team.

If you are a bad team, scouts don't want to see you and will try and avoid catching your team (also b/c seeing good players against bad teams doesn't tell you much).

As someone who is in the evaluation business, there is nothing worse then seeing a pitcher face a winless HS team or watching a hitter face low caliber pitching he won't see again.

Fact of the matter is that both Eskridge and Hickey had mid rounds potential. Both weren't able to offset their issues (size and tackling for Esk, medical for Hickey) to get drafted.

One thing to remember is that scouts are human. You play well in front of them (not on video) and they will overlook a lot of things. I guarantee if Esk had 15 tackles against Florida State instead of 8, he would have been drafted.

Just throwing it out there, and maybe it's an anomaly, but our 1991 team that went 10-2 and finished #11 had one draft pick and he was a 10th rounder, which now would be an undrafted FA. And if you look at 1992, which was arguably our best team in the 90's, we only had 2 guys drafted that year. If you "normalize" the older draft records to eliminate picks after the 7th round, which are now undrafted FA's, we typically were having 1-2 guys drafted a year. We've never had a FSU, USC, Bama, Miami, OSU type year where we had 7 or 8 guys picked in the first 7 rounds.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

New Orleans desperately needs help/depth on the OL so Hickey might have a decent chance of making that roster

I think that's true. His agent did a nice job there finding a place he'll have a chance to succeed.