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Message: [QUOTE="orange_in_VA, post: 2587512, member: 1356"] A lot of animosity to unpack here... First of all, I don't care about how these kids do in the NFL, I care about their college production which is what they were recruited to SU to do. All of the guys I listed were/will continue to be producers in the ACC. I don't disagree his hiring set us back from the Marrone years. I listed the reasons why in regards to his recruiting. Too many misses. To act like he gave us absolutely nothing is dramatic in my opinion. What are you going to say about Babers if we go 4-8 again? Babers is in year 3. The list of Shafers productive recruits I listed could possibly include 11 starters for this upcoming season. Babers definitely gets credit for coaching the team to wins over VT and Clemson, but Shafers recruits actually won those games. [/QUOTE]